Ash vs. Paul - Two Years On

[firestar319]

Ya Infernape pwning everything in site and Drapion doing all the work made for a great battle *rolls eyes*.

Paul's other pokemon were stronger which would of been more of a challenge concidering they would of probably had new move sets and such.

Well keep in mind that Paul had been to Kanto, Johto and Hoenn prior to Sinnoh too, meaning that those 'new' pokemon he used against Ash could've been just as strong. I'm basically saying just because we had never seen those pokemon used in battle before (i.e Gastrodon, Froslass, Drapion) doesn't mean they couldn't have been equal or stronger then the pokemon we were accustomed to seeing Paul use in DP (i.e Ursaring, Honchkrow, Torterra).

 

[Pokemaniac24]

Well keep in mind that Paul had been to Kanto, Johto and Hoenn prior to Sinnoh too, meaning that those 'new' pokemon he used against Ash could've been just as strong. I'm basically saying just because we had never seen those pokemon used in battle before (i.e Gastrodon, Froslass, Drapion) doesn't mean they couldn't have been equal or stronger then the pokemon we were accustomed to seeing Paul use in DP (i.e Ursaring, Honchkrow, Torterra).

Yeah especially since we did indeed find out that one of the new Pokemon he used (Drapion) was just as good and maybe even stronger than the Pokemon he used at Lake Acuity.

 

[LizardonX]

This battle was not a 6v6 it was a 4v6. Besides his ursaring and magmortar might as well have 9000 Hp each. I after watching some of his other battles concur with the sentiment that the writers gave pail weaker pokemon that clashed with his battle style to make it more believable for ash to win.

 

[Charizard Lord]

I think Gastrodon was supposed to be a counter to Infernape. It being Water and Ground, and I am sure Gastrodon could take a good number of hits and dish out some super effective ones right back.

Ehh, I think Paul counted on Ash switching as soon as Gastrodon was sent out. What possible advantage could Infernape have had when facing it? None, so I've always believed it was bait for Ash's Torterra, a secret weapon meant to eliminate one of Ash's biggest powerhouses. The huge type advantage would have lulled Ash into a false sense of confidence. Then Paul would shock him by not only unveiling his utlilization of the Counter Shield, but also Gastodon's x4 effective Ice Beam, both of which would have made quick work of Torterra. But, of course, Ash made a smart choice and took down Gastrodon with Staraptor and Buizel.

As for the topic, I'm not nearly as excited for Ash and Trip's ineitable showdown at the Unova League. Other than proving that Ash is just a competent a trainer as Trip, the two really have nothing to gain from yet another duel.

 

[AceDetective]

At the time I was slightly disappointed to learn Paul wasn't using established things like Honchkrow & Weavile but when the battle actually aired I was pleased with how it went down, although Torterra should of took down Aggron.

Now with Trip, his team hadn't been built up to anywhere near the same level so its not going to surprise me to see him face Ash with new pokemon

 

[1rkhachatryan]

You act as if that's all the battle had to offer.

Ash probably never used his brain as much as he did in that battle and it definitely showed in his strategies to get around the various traps that Paul was setting up throughout the match. He's never used that much brainpower in a battle EVER, so that made it a great battle for me.



Whether they were stronger or not can only go as far as an opinionated guess, but we all know that Paul only liked strong Pokemon and was shown to push his Pokemon to extreme limits to strengthen them up, so who knows what type of training he put the ones he used in the League through.

Let's see, that battle was a clash of three big bad(Infernape, Drapion, and Electivire) with a hint of Gliscor lol, the rest didn't even need to be there.

And yet none of them took out anything?? Yep so strong.

Well keep in mind that Paul had been to Kanto, Johto and Hoenn prior to Sinnoh too, meaning that those 'new' pokemon he used against Ash could've been just as strong. I'm basically saying just because we had never seen those pokemon used in battle before (i.e Gastrodon, Froslass, Drapion) doesn't mean they couldn't have been equal or stronger then the pokemon we were accustomed to seeing Paul use in DP (i.e Ursaring, Honchkrow, Torterra).

And yet they couldn't beat ****, like wtf?? They couldn't have been that strong.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Ya Infernape pwning everything in site and Drapion doing all the work made for a great battle *rolls eyes*.

This is wrong and a gross misinterpretation of what actually happened. You don't get to lie like this and ignore the extensive use of strategy and counter-strategy (basically unprecedented in the anime) such as the counter-shield, Ice Aqua Jet and the underground Flare Blitz, as well as the use of Toxic Spikes which was pretty clever. That, or the Infernape/Electivire confrontation, or Pikachu managing to finally beat one of Paul's Pokemon, or the amazing character dynamic, or Gliscor's redemption and him KOing Drapion. It was actually a culmination of the entire DP saga, calling back a lot of the strategies Ash used. His good knowledge in that battle is what made him almost being reset in Best Wishes so frustrating.

I'm not saying use all the same pokemon, but to replace everybody practically felt really forced and like Ash was handed a win.

I don't understand the use of the word "forced". How was it "forced"? A lot of these Pokemon were established from Paul's previous battles and clips involving him (such as Ninjask, Drapion and Lairon -> Aggron).

In addition, with the exception of Electabuzz and Ursaring, Paul used a wide selection of Pokemon during his battles with Brandon and such so I don't see how Paul's lake team should suddenly be widely accepted as Paul's "ultimate team" and everything else is suddenly a poor alternative.

Edit: Just read your latest post. Kind of stunned by it, but I'll try and wade through.

Let's see, that battle was a clash of three big bad(Infernape, Drapion, and Electivire) with a hint of Gliscor lol, the rest didn't even need to be there.

And yet none of them took out anything?? Yep so strong.

The rest needed to be there because they all played vital roles in the way the battle went. Buizel, Staraptor, Aggron and Gastrodon were important to accentuate Paul stealing Ash's strategy, as well as giving Ash the false sense of security that he would win easily before busting out Drapion. Pikachu vs. Froslass is kind of an underrated battle, too.

And yet they couldn't beat ****, like wtf?? They couldn't have been that strong.

Aggron lost to Infernape which it was at a major disadvantage against, after forcing Pikachu to switch out. Gastrodon dominated Staraptor and forced it to switch after hitting it with Ice Beam, and Buizel battled to get the KO. Froslass owned Pikachu for a long time, and froze it. Ninjask crushed Gliscor, which was EXPECTED to make a grand return and win, subverting expectation.

This battle was not a 6v6 it was a 4v6. Besides his ursaring and magmortar might as well have 9000 Hp each. I after watching some of his other battles concur with the sentiment that the writers gave pail weaker pokemon that clashed with his battle style to make it more believable for ash to win.

No. It's very easy to make it "believable" for Ash to beat those Pokemon. His entire team was stronger than the lake battle. They did it because for Paul to use his old Pokemon would have been out of character for him and would have made him a total hypocrite. It would have made the story of the match - the "technician" Paul vs. the "performer" Ash - silly too. Paul is a calculating individual who doesn't go in for Ash's sentimental style, so it makes sense that Paul would constantly change it up, while Ash tried to "use the frustration of his Pokemon" to get them to exceed their usual performance (that's more or less a direct quote)

Besides, these are the writers that came up with "aim for the horn" and "thunder armour" and you think they're worried about believability?

 

[1rkhachatryan]

This is wrong and a gross misinterpretation of what actually happened. You don't get to lie like this and ignore the extensive use of strategy and counter-strategy (basically unprecedented in the anime) such as the counter-shield, Ice Aqua Jet and the underground Flare Blitz, or the Infernape/Electivire confrontation, or Pikachu managing to finally beat one of Paul's Pokemon, or the amazing character dynamic, or Gliscor's redemption and him KOing Drapion. It was actually a culmination of the entire DP saga, calling back a lot of the strategies Ash used. His good knowledge in that battle is what made him almost being reset in Best Wishes so frustrating.


Ya but they could of done all that and distributed the wins evenly. Infernape only really needed that one win against Electivire and Drapion was way to haxed. It felt like it was a battle between Drapion, Infernape, and Electivire with a special mention to Gliscor.

And in all of his battles with Ash he used the same group of pokemon. If he was to show off other pokemon against other people and then have used at least some of the same ones for Ash it would of made more sense.

I don't understand the use of the word "forced". How was it "forced"? A lot of these Pokemon were established from Paul's previous battles and clips involving him (such as Ninjask, Drapion and Lairon -> Aggron).

Lairon was shown to get pwned easily so Paul should of released him according to his ways. Drapion was never shown to be captured. And Ninjask was also seen for two seconds. There pokwmon had no reason to be here. And if they had appeared more I wouldn't even care.

In addition, with the exception of Electabuzz and Ursaring, Paul used a wide selection of Pokemon during his battles with Brandon and such so I don't see how Paul's lake team should suddenly be widely accepted as Paul's "ultimate team" and everything else is suddenly a poor alternative.

Becuase against Ash, he never used any of these new pokemon, it was the same core group.

No. It's very easy to make it "believable" for Ash to beat those Pokemon. His entire team was stronger than the lake battle. They did it because for Paul to use his old Pokemon would have been out of character for him and would have made him a total hypocrite. It would have made the story of the match - the "technician" Paul vs. the "performer" Ash - silly too. Paul is a calculating individual who doesn't go in for Ash's sentimental style, so it makes sense that Paul would constantly change it up.

Besides, these are the writers that came up with "aim for the horn" and "thunder armour" and you think they're worried about believability?

Answers are bolded.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Ya but they could of done all that and distributed the wins evenly. Infernape only really needed that one win against Electivire and Drapion was way to haxed. It felt like it was a battle between Drapion, Infernape, and Electivire with a special mention to Gliscor.

And in all of his battles with Ash he used the same group of pokemon. If he was to show off other pokemon against other people and then have used at least some of the same ones for Ash it would of made more sense.

No. Infernape getting the 3 wins was necessary because he was the star. His role in the Ash/Paul rivalry meant he HAD to be the star. Him just beating Electivire, especially after Electivire had been damaged already, wouldn't have been enough. Infernape had to overcome adversity and be the one to KO Ninjask and Aggron while taking some damage, so the match with Electivire could be more or less even - perhaps with Infernape even at a slight disadvantage.

Drapion was not "haxed". He beat two Pokemon that had already taken damage and Torterra, which was hardly the best in his arsenal. In addition, if you think Drapion was "haxed" what do you think Ursaring was at the lake?

How would it have made more sense for Paul to use Pokemon he had already used against Ash? Did you not listen to him when he mocked Ash for using the same Pokemon every time? After having battled Ash in a full battle already, why would he re-use Ursaring (Ash would be wise to Guts this time)? Why would he re-use Magmortar? Why would he re-use Honchkrow? I could get on board with maybe one or two of those being used... I guess. But I don't see how the team Paul DID use was a "free win" for Ash or made it "more believable" that Ash could compete (by all accounts, Ash should have LOST the battle - Electivire stopped the ref from calling it). For instance, if Paul used Torterra what would it have done? It would have overshadowed the Infernape vs. Electivire rivalry for one thing.

Lairon was shown to get pwned easily so Paul should of released him according to his ways. Drapion was never shown to be captured. And Ninjask was also seen for two seconds. There pokwmon had no reason to be here. And if they had appeared more I wouldn't even care.

Calling total bulls*** on your Lairon reasoning. He used Ursaring, Electabuzz and Magmar in that battle too, and they all lost pretty easily (Electabuzz's Protect was even shattered). Should Paul have released those Pokemon? They were all used in your precious lake team.
Drapion was shown in that ep where Chimchar went crazy with Blaze and they had that 3-on-3 battle, was he not? I seem to remember it, though I could be wrong.
Ninjask was still shown, so it was still one of Paul's Pokemon. It wasn't a DEM capture, is all I'm saying, and you clearly agree.

Becuase against Ash, he never used any of these new pokemon, it was the same core group.

So it makes sense that he would not use them again against Ash, right? Especially when he berates Ash for always using the same team.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

No. Infernape getting the 3 wins was necessary because he was the star. His role in the Ash/Paul rivalry meant he HAD to be the star. Him just beating Electivire, especially after Electivire had been damaged already, wouldn't have been enough. Infernape had to overcome adversity and be the one to KO Ninjask and Aggron while taking some damage, so the match with Electivire could be more or less even - perhaps with Infernape even at a slight disadvantage.

Drapion was not "haxed". He beat two Pokemon that had already taken damage and Torterra, which was hardly the best in his arsenal. In addition, if you think Drapion was "haxed" what do you think Ursaring was at the lake?

How would it have made more sense for Paul to use Pokemon he had already used against Ash? Did you not listen to him when he mocked Ash for using the same Pokemon every time? After having battled Ash in a full battle already, why would he re-use Ursaring (Ash would be wise to Guts this time)? Why would he re-use Magmortar? Why would he re-use Honchkrow? I could get on board with maybe one or two of those being used... I guess. But I don't see how the team Paul DID use was a "free win" for Ash or made it "more believable" that Ash could compete (by all accounts, Ash should have LOST the battle - Electivire stopped the ref from calling it). For instance, if Paul used Torterra what would it have done? It would have overshadowed the Infernape vs. Electivire rivalry for one thing.



Calling total bulls*** on your Lairon reasoning. He used Ursaring, Electabuzz and Magmar in that battle too, and they all lost pretty easily (Electabuzz's Protect was even shattered). Should Paul have release those Pokemon? They were all used in your precious lake team.
Drapion was shown in that ep where Chimchar went crazy with Blaze and they had that 3-on-3 battle, was he not? I seem to remember it, though I could be wrong.
Ninjask was still shown, so it was still one of Paul's Pokemon. It wasn't a DEM capture, is all I'm saying, and you clearly agree.



So it makes sense that he would not use them again against Ash, right? Especially when he berates Ash for always using the same team.

Honsestly whatever man, all I'm saying is that Infernape was so overused that some other pokermon could of used those wins a lot more then he needed. And the only reason Paul berated Ash for using the same pokemon was cuz most of them failed epically in the battles with Paul. Paul himself had no reason to replace his pokemon.

And Electabuzz, Magmar, and Ursaring were totally shown to be battle capable at that point. Lairon was different and got one shotted. And no DRapion was not shown to be captured.

Seriously if they had been shown in battle at least once(not like Lairon), I wouldn't even care. They weren't established powerhouses while most of his other pokemon were.

 

[ShinyCharyZard]

Ninjask was captured before Chimchar, which for all we know could've occurred before the captures of some of his 'core' team.. We KNOW it happened before Ursaring was captured, maybe even before Magmar. So using this so called 'logic', Ninjask had more of a right to be there than possibly half of Paul's 'core' team..

Aggron did no worse in that battle against Brandon than any of the others; they all went down without doing any real damage to the Regi's.. Since it really did no worse than Electabuzz and Magmar, then it had just as much right to be used as they did.

Drapion was obvious from the moment we saw Reggie's. Of course he was going to prove that he could train one to a higher caliber and of course he was going to prove its strength against the one person he deemed worthy (even though he wouldn't admit it).

Froslass and Gastrodon? Who knows.. They came out of nowhere, but for all we know, Froslass could've been captured in Hoenn, making it as powerful, if not more than a couple of the 'core' team.

Honestly, the one problem with that battle was not the Pokemon, it was the fact that Paul built himself up to be so overconfident when facing Ash's Sinnoh team, that he thought he could wipe it out without a problem, without his usual switching methods. The lack of switching was completely out of character and to be honest, if he really had a handicap then that was it.. NOT the change of Pokemon.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Ninjask was captured before Chimchar, which for all we know could've occurred before the captures of some of his 'core' team.. We KNOW it happened before Ursaring was captured, maybe even before Magmar. So using this so called 'logic', Ninjask had more of a right to be there than possibly half of Paul's 'core' team..

Aggron did no worse in that battle against Brandon than any of the others; they all went down without doing any real damage to the Regi's.. Since it really did no worse than Electabuzz and Magmar, then it had just as much right to be used as they did.

Drapion was obvious from the moment we saw Reggie's. Of course he was going to prove that he could train one to a higher caliber and of course he was going to prove its strength against the one person he deemed worthy (even though he wouldn't admit it).

Froslass and Gastrodon? Who knows.. They came out of nowhere, but for all we know, Froslass could've been captured in Hoenn, making it as powerful, if not more than a couple of the 'core' team.

Honestly, the one problem with that battle was not the Pokemon, it was the fact that Paul built himself up to be so overconfident when facing Ash's Sinnoh team, that he thought he could wipe it out without a problem, without his usual switching methods. The lack of switching was completely out of character and to be honest, if he really had a handicap then that was it.. NOT the change of Pokemon.

Yes but they were never shown , that's the problem. If they even had one battle pre league I would of been fine with it.

And Electabuzz, Magmar, and Ursaring were shown to be powerful before hand so it was okay for them to lose once. The problem with Lairon is it did absolute **** before going down.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Honsestly whatever man, all I'm saying is that Infernape was so overused that some other pokermon could of used those wins a lot more then he needed. And the only reason Paul berated Ash for using the same pokemon was cuz most of them failed epically in the battles with Paul. Paul himself had no reason to replace his pokemon.

And Electabuzz, Magmar, and Ursaring were totally shown to be battle capable at that point. Lairon was different and got one shotted. And no DRapion was not shown to be captured.

Seriously if they had been shown in battle at least once(not like Lairon), I wouldn't even care. They weren't established powerhouses while most of his other pokemon were.

Infernape needed those wins because he was the major part of the storyline, and no, Paul also criticised Ash because it made him tactically predictable. Reggie also made this criticism during the lake battle.

Also you criticise the battle repeatedly for being about "a main 3 Pokemon with some Gliscor thrown in". I put it to you that you can make this case for every battle. Ash vs. Gary? That was all about Charizard vs. Blastoise! The other 10 were superfluous! Ash vs. Lance? Pah! Lance might as well have not had the other 5 Pokemon, because it was ALL about Dragonite!

...Alternatively, every single big battle gives major storyline significance to some Pokemon and less to others. It helps add drama and emotional depth to the storyline and adds an extra character dynamic that isn't just "Ash has 6 Pokemon, antagonist has 6 Pokemon. LET'S FIGHT!"

I also question why you feel the need to be spoon-fed everything. It's Paul. He's not using Pokemon in the quarter-final of the league that aren't strong, exceptional Pokemon. But you're still wrong about how Paul "should have released" Lairon. That's just silly, unreasonable and completely over-the-top bias towards Paul's "established team". If Paul used Lairon against BRANDON, it's a safe bet that Lairon had enough power and experience to be a competent member of Paul's team.

Honestly, the one problem with that battle was not the Pokemon, it was the fact that Paul built himself up to be so overconfident when facing Ash's Sinnoh team, that he thought he could wipe it out without a problem, without his usual switching methods. The lack of switching was completely out of character and to be honest, if he really had a handicap then that was it.. NOT the change of Pokemon.

Paul still changed semi-often, but I think it's clear that Paul used a different strategy in that battle - using his first two Pokemon to expose Ash's team, and then sweep through with Drapion. Reggie actually wondered aloud if Ash realised that losing Aggron and Gastrodon was something Paul expected. Ninjask played a similar role - forcing a switch and weakening two Pokemon, allowing Electivire to (almost) sweep the two Pokemon that were used against it.

I don't see why you created a flaw in Paul's strategy when Reggie explicitly stated why Paul had allowed the first two Pokemon to faint without switching them. He wasn't about the constant switches this time, and in fact looked to use a strategy that took advantage of Ash's tendency to switch.

Yes but they were never shown , that's the problem. If they even had one battle pre league I would of been fine with it.

And Electabuzz, Magmar, and Ursaring were shown to be powerful before hand so it was okay for them to lose once. The problem with Lairon is it did absolute **** before going down.

Paul has travelled through 4 regions and, like I said, had enough faith in Lairon to use it against Brandon and again vs. Ash at the league. We don't need to have seen it on-screen to know it's pretty good. I would also like a retraction of your ridiculous "it should have been released" statement.

 

[LizardonX]

So basically Ash fais at a trainer paul traveled through 4 regions and trained dozens of fully evolved pokemon each with the strength of a tank. Ash does the same and we only haze half a dozen if that anywhere near those levels. The rivalry as a whole was just the writers ackowledging ash sucks as a trainer and that marketing trumps team power I mean chimchar for over 100 episodes?. As well as giving a nod to the soft resetters that that is the way to get powerful pokemon.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Infernape needed those wins because he was the major part of the storyline, and no, Paul also criticised Ash because it made him tactically predictable. Reggie also made this criticism during the lake battle.

Also you criticise the battle repeatedly for being about "a main 3 Pokemon with some Gliscor thrown in". I put it to you that you can make this case for every battle. Ash vs. Gary? That was all about Charizard vs. Blastoise! The other 10 were superfluous! Ash vs. Lance? Pah! Lance might as well have not had the other 5 Pokemon, because it was ALL about Dragonite!

...Alternatively, every single big battle gives major storyline significance to some Pokemon and less to others. It helps add drama and emotional depth to the storyline and adds an extra character dynamic that isn't just "Ash has 6 Pokemon, antagonist has 6 Pokemon. LET'S FIGHT!"

I also question why you feel the need to be spoon-fed everything. It's Paul. He's not using Pokemon in the quarter-final of the league that aren't strong, exceptional Pokemon. But you're still wrong about how Paul "should have released" Lairon. That's just silly, unreasonable and completely over-the-top bias towards Paul's "established team". If Paul used Lairon against BRANDON, it's a safe bet that Lairon had enough power and experience to be a competent member of Paul's team.



Paul still changed semi-often, but I think it's clear that Paul used a different strategy in that battle - using his first two Pokemon to expose Ash's team, and then sweep through with Drapion. Reggie actually wondered aloud if Ash realised that losing Aggron and Gastrodon was something Paul expected. Ninjask played a similar role - forcing a switch and weakening two Pokemon, allowing Electivire to (almost) sweep the two Pokemon that were used against it.

I don't see why you created a flaw in Paul's strategy when Reggie explicitly stated why Paul had allowed the first two Pokemon to faint without switching them. He wasn't about the constant switches this time, and in fact looked to use a strategy that took advantage of Ash's tendency to switch.



Paul has travelled through 4 regions and, like I said, had enough faith in Lairon to use it against Brandon and again vs. Ash at the league. We don't need to have seen it on-screen to know it's pretty good. I would also like a retraction of your ridiculous "it should have been released" statement.

No he didn't. All Ash had to do was save him as his last pokemon as well the same with Paul and the two battle it out with full strength with Infernape still coming out on top. That would of proved the same point.

 

[deathseer]

Would have to agree. Infernape getting the bulk of the wins doesn't really prove it's strength, but shows the deficiencies of Ash's team as a whole. Without Infernape and the need to hype it up as the strongest Pokemon ever, Ash more than likely would have lost the battle. All that battle proved was how any other of Ash's Pokemon were ineffectual and that Infernape always has to come out smelling like roses. It would be no different than Ash leading with Infernape and proceeding to sweep Paul's entire team.

Mostly what Paul was saying is that Ash's team as a whole was pathetic, and to this day he is right. Aside from Infernape and maybe Pikachu when it is late in the series, none of Ash's Pokemon could stand up to Paul's established powerhouses such as Torterra and Honchkrow.

 

[LizardonX]

The whole point of the battle is for Ash to essentially mop the floor with infernape to show paul lolsux2bu. If anything infernape should have gotten more wins and Ash getting more battles to show off his other pokemon instead. Maybe torterra could get a win vs gastrodon.

 

[Cresselia92]

The whole point of the battle is for Ash to essentially mop the floor with infernape to show paul lolsux2bu. If anything infernape should have gotten more wins and Ash getting more battles to show off his other pokemon instead. Maybe torterra could get a win vs gastrodon.

Hm, yes... Buizel taking out Aggron and Torterra taking out Gastrodon would have been good, despite the massive type advantage (and I know people would complain by saying: "Ah, but he won only because he had the type advantage!" or "One single win doesn't mean he is strong!" or similar -_-).

 

[TheNewGuy]

I could live with Infernape only getting 2 wins and Torterra beating Aggron or Gastrodon. I think Buizel needed a win (it hadn't won in ages before the Paul battle, and got destroyed by Kenny's Empoleon iirc), Pikachu needed to beat at least ONE of Paul's Pokemon, and Gliscor's return would have been pointless had it not gotten a win. Infernape also needed to be the star for story purposes, so he had to KO at least 2. There's not much room to manoeuvre, but I guess I can live with Infernape losing *one* of its wins. It's kind of sad what happened to Torterra once it evolved so it would have been good if it had KO'd Aggron. Whatevs, though, what we got was still great.

Would have to agree. Infernape getting the bulk of the wins doesn't really prove it's strength, but shows the deficiencies of Ash's team as a whole. Without Infernape and the need to hype it up as the strongest Pokemon ever, Ash more than likely would have lost the battle. All that battle proved was how any other of Ash's Pokemon were ineffectual and that Infernape always has to come out smelling like roses. It would be no different than Ash leading with Infernape and proceeding to sweep Paul's entire team.

Mostly what Paul was saying is that Ash's team as a whole was pathetic, and to this day he is right. Aside from Infernape and maybe Pikachu when it is late in the series, none of Ash's Pokemon could stand up to Paul's established powerhouses such as Torterra and Honchkrow.

As usual on this topic, you have spouted a huge pile of wrong. "Without the strongest Pokemon on Ash's team, Ash would have lost the battle" is such an inane thing to say. I mean really. Would you have him compete 5 vs. 6 just to justify your point? And let's look at the only battle people tend to hype up as competition to Ash vs. Paul - Ash vs. Gary. Without Charizard, Ash loses. Against Lance and Brandon, Ash loses without Pikachu. You can say this about most battles that are more than 3-on-3.

Also, Ash's Buizel was highly effectual. Pikachu delivered a KO. Gliscor delivered in a big way. Gliscor beating Drapion proved it is a tough cookie, methinks.

This smacks of a post coming from someone with a closed mind, determined to hate the battle and criticise it, and coming up with contrived reasons to do so. But hey, you probably won't respond to this, just like last time.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I would prefer:

Aggron: Buizel(evolves)
Gastrodon: Torterra
Drapion: Torterra
Ninjask: Gliscor
Froslass: Gliscor
Electivire: Infernape

This would of been a much better battle in my opinion. The rat got his moment the next battle so he didn't need a win here.