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Ash's Ace

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MegaSalamence05

Well-Known Member
Now that the Kalos Saga has winded to a close, it's now an updated consideration for Ash's Ace. In the footsteps of the Elite Four members from the Anime.

Out of the Kanto Elite Four from the members you saw.
Lorelei - Cloyster
Bruno - Hitmonchan
Agatha - Gengar
Lance - Dragonite

For the Hoenn Elite Four you saw
Drake - Salamence

For the Sinnoh Elite Four you saw
Aaron - Vespiquen
Lucian - Bronzong
Bertha - Hippowdon
Flint - Infernape

For Unova E4 you saw
Caitlin - Gothitelle

Now for Kalos Elite Four (I'm including appearances in Movies/Specials)
Siebold - Mega Blastoise
Wikstrom - Mega Scizor
Malva - Mega Houndoom

Champions
Ash - Orange League (Yes it does count its a regional competition)
Lance - Kanto - Dragonite
Steven Stone - Hoenn - Mega Metagross (Shiny)
Cynthia - Sinnoh - Garchomp
Wallace - Hoenn - Milotic
Alder - Unova - Bouffalant
Diantha - Kalos - Mega Gardevoir

Now since I consider Ash a champion of the Orange League as it was a regional competition for the Orange Archipelago. Who would you consider Ash's Ace (His signature Pokemon disregarding Pikachu)

I would consider Ash's Greninja to be the top of this list. The pokemon I've listed below are tiered towards the accomplishments of the League. Greninja achieving the highest distinction of making it to the Finals with Infernape in second with the Semi Finals appearance. Do I think Greninja is the best no but its accomplishments at the league pushed it to it being the Clutch finisher (Don't bring up Alain) always coming last (Sawyer and Alain's battles) except for the battle against Tomo and Altaria.

Ash Greninja (Finals)
Infernape (Semi Finals)
Sceptile, Charizard, Krookodile, Snorlax (Quarter Finals)

This is opinion based but hopefully you guys see the point I'm trying to make. Sure its riddled with plot holes, and inaccuracies but I feel that Ash is a Champion already because he got to fight the champion in a 1v1 match full 6v6. Feel free to tack on any other posts I welcome the discussion.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Ash is not at Champion-level, in fact he isn't even close. Every time he faces an E4 member, he gets bodied and doesn't even stand a chance even though some of the E4 are clearly not taking it seriously. The only anomaly of him not getting destroyed is the rematch vs Diantha, and Diantha was not going all-out as Gardevoir did have a glowing ring around it's neck that snapped when Diantha commanded it to use "full power", which isn't a move so it's safe to assume it's something that constraints it's power and only unleashes it in dire situations or against opponents that she highly respects as powerful. IKUZEfrog is possibly low E4-tier, but it's no higher than that, and his other Pokemons are certainly not above it.

Regarding who is Ash's ace, it's one of GPICSS. Any of these can honestly take the role of the ace and all have proven to be extremely reliable in clutch situations, especially Pikachu. I know it lost to Tyson's Meowth and Cameron's Lucario, but you can't blame Pikachu for those losses since Tyson's Meowth is absurdly strong and against Lucario it was just filled with PIS and Snivy should have won from the start. Pikachu has far more clutches than chokes.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Charizard is his top Pokemon,he may have only gotten up to Top 8 back in Johto but since then it's gotten stronger from the training at Charicific Valley,the one region absence of not returning to Ash in DP makes it twice as strong.Had Ash used Charizard in the match against Tyson he could have made it to the Top 4 or possibly even the Top 2.Had Charizard returned to the Sinnoh League it could have defeated one of Tobias's Legendaries and resort to him using his third Pokemon.
Had Charizard returned during the Unova League he could soloed Cameron's Hydreigon saving Ash the trouble of using multiple Pokemon to take it down.
Imagine the combination of Ash's Charizard,Pikachu,and Krookodile,Levanny,Palpitoad,and Boldore all together facing Virgil's Team Eevee.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Charizard's his ace. Had he used it in a League post OS he'd have won. Except against the all powerful Tobias who probably had an Entei and Lucario too
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Discounting Pikachu then Charizard is the Ace because let's face it Pikachu will ALWAYS be Ash's Ace.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Discounting Pikachu then Charizard is the Ace because let's face it Pikachu will ALWAYS be Ash's Ace.

Yes because one that gets little to no training at all and hangs on one's shoulder is stronger than the one that goes through training and learns new moves.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Charizard's his ace. Had he used it in a League post OS he'd have won. Except against the all powerful Tobias who probably had an Entei and Lucario too

Satoshi's Lizardon's power is often overestimated. Yes, he's incredibly strong, but he isn't infallible. He lost to a Samayouru after all, so anything goes.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Satoshi's Lizardon's power is often overestimated. Yes, he's incredibly strong, but he isn't infallible. He lost to a Samayouru after all, so anything goes.

Ash made a bonehead move in using a fighting type on a ghost type costing it to lose and the fact that the writers chose Charizard to be the fall guy to give Pikachu the limelight for whatever hell reason,nothing but pure PIS in this situation.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Ash's ace- let's see. Seriously I can't decide whom to choose between Pikachu, Charizard and Greninja(Ash-Greninja). I'll rather keep all three of them to be honest.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Pikachu gets by on experience and having a great bond with Ash,Charizard on the other hand has experience,a good bond with Ash,and training, realistically and logically Pikachu shouldn't have defeated Dragonite,Regice,and tied with a Latios because it didn't deserve those opportunities regardless of reset or no reset.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Pikachu gets by on experience and having a great bond with Ash,Charizard on the other hand has experience,a good bond with Ash,and training, realistically and logically Pikachu shouldn't have defeated Dragonite,Regice,and tied with a Latios because it didn't deserve those opportunities regardless of reset or no reset.

Actually, Pikachu is an excellent example of a Pokemon in the Anime whose power varies according to plot. Sometimes it loses to a beginner's Snivy and sometimes it defeats and ties with Regice and Latios respectively.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Actually, Pikachu is an excellent example of a Pokemon in the Anime whose power varies according to plot. Sometimes it loses to a beginner's Snivy and sometimes it defeats and ties with Regice and Latios respectively.

And that's exactly why it can't be Ash's Ace.
 

MegaSalamence05

Well-Known Member
Ash's Charizard and Ash Greninja are the only 2 Pokemon that you can consider but the way that I see it he's a Champion but on the lower end of the spectrum with Cynthia being on the other end. If you focus on the ace you could make teams surrounding the Ace but I'm going to focus on the single Pokemon. I like both Charizard and Greninja but I'm on Greninja's side keep up the conversation.
 

Frozocrone

Miraculous!
Probably his Charizard or Infernape for me, Charizard for consistency, Infernape for win percentage. Pikachu fluctuates too much to be his ace (although I blame that more on the writers resetting him each season). Pikachu makes his all-star team thought. As for Greninja, well:

Can't really say it's Ash's ace when he's no longer it's trainer ;)

I guess his 6 move Snorlax is up for contention too.
 
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Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Yes because one that gets little to no training at all and hangs on one's shoulder is stronger than the one that goes through training and learns new moves.
So Pikachu, despite going to Ash through all the regions where Ash actively trains his new Pokemon to varying degrees of success and participates in said training gets "little to no training?" And yes I'd consider peak Pikachu stronger than Charizard, no amount of bringing up Pikachu's low end feats (because people sure as hell are very quick to dismiss the same if done for the likes of Charizard, Ash-Greninja, etc...) that happen for the sake of PIS will change that. In terms of best feats 2 Legendary KO + 1 Mega KO>Charizrd's sole Legendary KO
 
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PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
So Pikachu, despite going to Ash through all the regions where Ash actively trains his new Pokemon to varying degrees of success and participates in said training gets "little to no training?

Pikachu may have volunteered to join in Ash's little training sessions with his other Pokemon but that still pales in comparison to what Charizard was doing.Besides Ash didn't start training until Hoenn then a lot throughout Sinnoh.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Ash-Greninja > Charizard > Blaze Infernape > Sceptile > Snorlax > Infernape = Greninja > Krookodile. Pikachu at peak strength = Charizard. Ash's Pokémon don't yet have the power and durability to compete with regional champions, but I do believe Ash by the end of XYZ had attained skill on par with that of E4s and Champions.
 
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