• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

Ash's best Flying Type Pokemon

Ash's best Flying Type

  • Pidgeot

    Votes: 18 14.9%
  • Noctowl

    Votes: 9 7.4%
  • Swellow

    Votes: 34 28.1%
  • Staraptor

    Votes: 58 47.9%
  • Unfezant

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Total voters
    121
Status
Not open for further replies.

Navin

MALDREAD
Well it seems like a near majority of people disagree with you.

People may have voted on other factors, such as design or personality. That explains why Noctowl and Pidgeot got votes.

Other than that, some people seem to think that cool moves = more power, which is ridiculous. Look at the feats you'll find Swellow definitely is stronger than Staraptor.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
People may have voted on other factors, such as design or personality. That explains why Noctowl and Pidgeot got votes.

Other than that, some people seem to think that cool moves = more power, which is ridiculous.

Or they just believe that Staraptor is the better bird. Not everyone shares your opinion you know.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Sure, if they want their opinion to be one based in delusion. Compare the birds objectively and you'll see the obvious, which is Swellow is better.

Or maybe if you weren't so blinded by the fact that most of Swellow's feats were DEM and Staraptor was far more consistent you could see why he was picked over Swellow.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Or maybe if you weren't so blinded by the fact that most of Swellow's feats were DEM and Staraptor was far more consistent you could see why he was picked over Swellow.

Don't just pull out the DEM card without backing it up; your statement is completely untrue. And tell me, how was Staraptor "far more consistent"? Did you read any of the other pages in this thread? Perhaps then you'll realize that people aren't just "blinded by the fact" but are actually using facts to show why Swellow is better.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Don't just pull out the DEM card without backing it up; your statement is completely untrue. And tell me, how was Staraptor "far more consistent"? Did you read any of the other pages in this thread? Perhaps then you'll realize that people aren't just "blinded by the fact" but are actually using facts to show why Swellow is better.

Thunder Armor
Beating Winnona's Swellow with one hit
Stopping THAT Rollout.
They were cool and epic moments but I'm not going to pretend like they weren't DEM either.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Thunder Armor
Beating Winnona's Swellow with one hit
Stopping THAT Rollout.
They were cool and epic moments but I'm not going to pretend like they weren't DEM either.

The only time you can argue as DEM is Thunder Armor. And even Thunder Armor made sense holistically because Swellow continually demonstrated feats of ridiculous stamina/toughness and fighting till the last breath, so it wasn't even that absurd. On the contrary, what is even more DEM is the loss against Latios since Swellow shouldn't have lost that easily. The moment you start cherry picking places in which you feel something is DEM, you're basically removing key bodies of work that defined Swellow as a tremendous battler and asset for Ash in AG. Swellow's victories against Gym Leaders, Frontier Brains, and League Conference Champion > Staraptor's wins against Weavile, Roserade, and a Pokeringer victory against Honchkrow.
 

Everlasting

Everything stays.
In total honesty, I don't see the difference between stopping a Rollout or tanking Stone Edge or Blizzard. Also, his battle against Winona's Swellow was far from being DEM. Swellow used the sand to avoid Winona's Swellow's Aerial Ace to then strike with force a Wing Attack while its opponent's guards were at their lowest. This battle, by the way, also greatly demonstrated Swellow's stamina, as well as strength, knowing that, even if they were both from the same specie, Ash's can always recover and take down opponents before being took down itself.

I'm not saying Staraptor's a bad Pokémon, though. It put off some impressive battles and I understand easily why the first place of this poll is disputed between it and Swellow. I just judge Swellow to be slightly better overall. This bird was something we can't avoid.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I don't think its fair to compare Staraptor and Swellow, for one thing Swellow had like 20 battles, unlike Staraptor who only had 5 battles.

Not even remotely comparable at all.

If Staraptor had a lot more battles equal to Swellow, I'm sure it would've surpassed Swellow.

Swellow only benefits from having far more battles than Staraptor.

Edit: Just to point out, Staraptor took a stone edge from Torterra and a blizzard from Weavile and survived all from within the same battle, both should be stronger than Roll out or by that I mean should've dealt more damage to Staraptor than roll out by Tyson's Donphan.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
I don't think its fair to compare Staraptor and Swellow, for one thing Swellow had like 20 battles, unlike Staraptor who only had 5 battles. Not even remotely comparable at all.

You and I have contested this before. Quality > Quantity. Ash's Glalie only battled during the Evergrande Conference but he won/tied in all of his matches and showed himself as a beast. Ash's Gliscor showed his mettle in the very few battles he participated in. The manner in which you win or lose also matters.

If Staraptor had a lot more battles equal to Swellow, I'm sure it would've surpassed Swellow.

Unfortunately, that's just a personal belief. I could also say that Staraptor would pull a Torterra and lose the next fifteen battles, or split them 50-50. In any case, we have to base the argument based on what we saw of Staraptor. I don't see the bird who struggled against Gastrodon, got manhandled by Drapion, and had to go kamikaze-mode to defeat Roserade as one who could have pulled out the same performances that Swellow has done.

Swellow only benefits from having far more battles than Staraptor.

Well then Swellow deserves to be commended for staying true to form for most of those battles.

Edit: Just to point out, Staraptor took a stone edge from Torterra and a blizzard from Weavile and survived all from within the same battle, both should be stronger than Roll out or by that I mean should've dealt more damage to Staraptor than roll out by Tyson's Donphan.

I don't see how Stone Edge + Blizzard (and he Brave Bird through it so it wasn't as if Staraptor was just plain tanking it) is somehow superior to tanking Seismic Toss + Sandstorm + 5 Rollouts + Psychic in a single battle. Or surviving Arcanine/Swampert's Extremespeed + Water Pulse/Fire Blast twister of death. Or the legendary Thunder Armor.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
You and I have contested this before. Quality > Quantity. Ash's Glalie only battled during the Evergrande Conference but he won/tied in all of his matches and showed himself as a beast. Ash's Gliscor showed his mettle in the very few battles he participated in. The manner in which you win or lose also matters.

Another flaw, the more battles you have, the more likely you will end up with a quality battle and most likely to end up with a lot of quality battles, especially if you are used quite frequently.

I guarantee you that if you switch Staraptor and Swellow generation wise, you would be praising Staraptor and condemning Swellow, and what simply because Swellow had far more battles than Staraptor, increasing its odds of having good quality battles?


Unfortunately, that's just a personal belief. I could also say that Staraptor would pull a Torterra and lose the next fifteen battles, or split them 50-50. In any case, we have to base the argument based on what we saw of Staraptor. I don't see the bird who struggled against Gastrodon, got manhandled by Drapion, and had to go kamikaze-mode to defeat Roserade as one who could have pulled out the same performances that Swellow has done.
I'm pretty sure had Torterra gotten 10 battles in total it would have won all seven.

Okay fine let's look at it like this: If it was ever the case with Swellow (which I'm pretty sure that's not the case), Staraptor has won a battle EVERY match it was in before being knocked out with the exception of Paul. If Swellow did fit that which it doesn't "Morrison's Gligar" there's also Tobias's Latios. Let's exclude the battle with Paul and even Swellow's battle with Latios, and just straight up say: Staraptor is the only bird who has taken out a Pokemon before being taken out itself in every battle. That alone speaks volumes, since when you think of Snorlax, Snorlax is one of his strongest Pokemon because of that fact.

But sure, Staraptor lost to Paul. and Swellow lost to Tobias all without taking a single Pokemon out.

We can't really judge Staraptor on the basis of what its done, when you compare it to Swellow who has had far more battles, and opportunities to have quality battles, because let's say you choose Swellow's five worst battles (the approximate number of battles Staraptor is in), are they superior to Staraptor's battles, or are you going to straight up choose the 5 best battles, and blow Staraptor out of the water. Because if you look at it like that, it's not fair, Staraptor doesn't have the quality because it lacks in quantity.

Sure point to Gliscor who hasn't been used that much, and it having great battles, but let's really look at its record

Tied to Roserade
Beat Bastiodon
Lost to a Snover
Lost to a Torterra
Lost to a Scizor
Beat a Drapion

It's easy to argue that Drapion and Bastiodon are much better Pokemon than Scizor/Torterra/Snover with Roserade being between a win and loss (but acts as a negative point against it) and say that Staraptor is a weaker Pokemon than Gliscor, because of the high esteem that Bastiodon and Drapion are receiving and simply JUST because Gliscor was written to defeat those Pokemon.

But let's look at Roserade shall we. Nando's Roserade definitely is stronger than Barry's Roserade although I'm sure you could argue that's subjective. Staraptor defeated Nando's Roserade, Gliscor only tied with Barry's Roserade. What now? Two Pokemon of the same species from two different trainers battling against two of Ash's Pokemon and Staraptor was the one to defeat the species while the other only managed to tie.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Another flaw, the more battles you have, the more likely you will end up with a quality battle and most likely to end up with a lot of quality battles, especially if you are used quite frequently.

And the more chance you could come also come across as incredibly inconsistent by also losing battles you should have won.

I guarantee you that if you switch Staraptor and Swellow generation wise, you would be praising Staraptor and condemning Swellow, and what simply because Swellow had far more battles than Staraptor, increasing its odds of having good quality battles?

Duh, of course I would. And I'd argue with the same reasons. I don't see the purpose of this argument; it's like saying what if we switched Sceptile's performances with those of Torterra's - of course we would be praising Torterra and condemning Sceptile.


I'm pretty sure had Torterra gotten 10 battles in total it would have won all seven.

Or it could have pulled Suicide Mountain and lost all 10.

Okay fine let's look at it like this: If it was ever the case with Swellow (which I'm pretty sure that's not the case), Staraptor has won a battle EVERY match it was in before being knocked out with the exception of Paul. If Swellow did fit that which it doesn't "Morrison's Gligar" there's also Tobias's Latios. Let's exclude the battle with Paul and even Swellow's battle with Latios, and just straight up say: Staraptor is the only bird who has taken out a Pokemon before being taken out itself in every battle. That alone speaks volumes, since when you think of Snorlax, Snorlax is one of his strongest Pokemon because of that fact.

Why would you ever take out the Paul battle? That's the most important fight, where it came up short. Likewise, in a similarly clutch situation, Swellow battled amazingly against Katie and Tyson (getting 2 wins), and at least got a draw against Morrison at the League.

The only reason why I even remotely discount the battle against Latios is because of the fact that Swellow has been shown numerous time to have taken worse beatings and has shown great stamina and the fact that he got KO'd in that manner was just PIS.

But sure, Staraptor lost to Paul. and Swellow lost to Tobias all without taking a single Pokemon out.

Swellow lost to Tobias's hax legendary while Staraptor struggled against a Gastrodon and got wrecked by a Drapion.

We can't really judge Staraptor on the basis of what its done, when you compare it to Swellow who has had far more battles, and opportunities to have quality battles, because let's say you choose Swellow's five worst battles (the approximate number of battles Staraptor is in), are they superior to Staraptor's battles, or are you going to straight up choose the 5 best battles, and blow Staraptor out of the water. Because if you look at it like that, it's not fair, Staraptor doesn't have the quality because it lacks in quantity.

Vs Winona's Swellow: Win

Vs Tate & Liza's Lunatone/Solrock: Win

Vs Juan's Whiscash: Win
Vs Juan's Milotic: Loss

Vs Katie's Venomoth: Win
Vs Katie's Scizor: Win
Vs Katie's Walrein: Loss

Vs Morrison's Gligar: Draw

Vs Tyson's Hariyama: Win
Vs Tyson's Donphan: Win
Vs Tyson's Metagross: Loss

Vs Tucker's Arcanine/Swampert: Win

Vs Spenser's Venusaur: Win
Vs Spenser's Claydol: Loss

Vs Tobias's Latios: Loss

The only time it didn't get a win was a draw (still better than a loss) against Morrison's Gligar and its PIS-loss to Latios.


Sure point to Gliscor who hasn't been used that much, and it having great battles, but let's really look at its record

Tied to Roserade
Beat Bastiodon
Lost to a Snover
Lost to a Torterra
Lost to a Scizor
Beat a Drapion

It's easy to argue that Drapion and Bastiodon are much better Pokemon than Scizor/Torterra/Snover with Roserade being between a win and loss (but acts as a negative point against it) and say that Staraptor is a weaker Pokemon than Gliscor, because of the high esteem that Bastiodon and Drapion are receiving and simply JUST because Gliscor was written to defeat those Pokemon.

Unless you just want me to copy-paste my Gliscor arguments from the other thread, do you really want to debate this again?

But let's look at Roserade shall we. Nando's Roserade definitely is stronger than Barry's Roserade although I'm sure you could argue that's subjective. Staraptor defeated Nando's Roserade, Gliscor only tied with Barry's Roserade. What now? Two Pokemon of the same species from two different trainers battling against two of Ash's Pokemon and Staraptor was the one to defeat the species while the other only managed to tie.

Lol, Gliscor got a lot more stronger when it faced Paul. The same Gliscor that defeated Drapion would defeat Nando's and Barry's Roserades.
 

unpleasant unfezant

Active Member
The only time Unfezant was remotely bad, was against Cameron(which nobody came out looking good), She might not have the best record, but i think she´s pretty underrated, certainly did better than noctowl, and pidgeot.
 

Outburstz

Well-Known Member
Ash's best flying pokemon to me is his Pidgeot.

This man knows his stuff I guess people forget how beast Pidgeot really was.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
I know it's still early days but Fletchinder (eventual Talonflame) might have a shot at taking the "Strongest Regional Bird" title. It got a gym win in its base stage and in the last episode it showed a keen analytical sense and we'll as raw guts and determination, a mix of Noctowl and Swellow/Staraptor IMO. But it's still early days but I'm hoping Fletchinder gets more focus and continues to impress (hopefully it does well in the next 2 gyms)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top