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Ash's Hypothetical Best Team

Apslup

Feelin' Fine.
You’re right they are very different.... in the anime type matchups mean far less than they do in the games and a Pokémon’s raw capabilities are far more important. I was just trying to make an analogy before but whatever; the undeniable fact of the matter is that Charizard is objectively a substantially better Pokémon than Krookodile hence it makes zero sense to have Krookodile over Charizard. Even in terms of overal team resistance/weakness, Charizard is objectively the superior choice. What part of this do you not understand? The only benefit of Krookodile over Charizard is getting Rock coverage (and Dark if we can give them a moveset comprising of any of the moves they’ve previously used though in this case Zard gets Seismic Toss which in the anime is far superior to Infernape’s Mach Punch) though as I’ve already said the benefit of additional type coverage is far smaller in the anime than in the games.

Also (not that this is necessarily relevant) the games serve as the default expectation for the anime and hence serve as a valid source of information when trying to understand various elements in the anime as long as that information hasn’t been contradicted by the anime itself (in which case the information in the anime would obviously take precedence).

Yeah I guess you're right. I was just saying that Game Logic should be used carefully when being applied to the Anime (also I just wanted to put Krookodile on the team since I like him more than I like Charizard :p)
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Yeah I guess you're right. I was just saying that Game Logic should be used carefully when being applied to the Anime (also I just wanted to put Krookodile on the team since I like him more than I like Charizard :p)
Yeah I agree with the point about being careful when using in-game logic.. Lol in that case it’s fine.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
(though it would be better if we get rid of Aerial Ace and replace it with Crunch, a move Krookodile has known previously, but Beggar's can't be choosers).

Yes, because at least then Krookodile would have a STAB Dark move, especially considering that Ash's Dark-type Ace in the next generation didn't even have a Dark-type move despite its game version having a Dark-type move....


Ash doesn't have a Ditto.

Zard gets Seismic Toss which in the anime is far superior to Infernape’s Mach Punch

Yes, but Infernape's is STAB. I'm sure you can provide a thorough analysis that proves Zard's ST is better than Infernape's MP, but the fact that the latter is STAB is just a thought I had.
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
At least Mach Punch doesn't have to rely on hitting an opponent who isn't too heavy for it to work.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
At least Mach Punch doesn't have to rely on hitting an opponent who isn't too heavy for it to work.
Well that was Zard as of Johto League and he’s gotten much stronger since then, so I wonder who’s the heaviest Pokémon end of BW Zard could successfully do Seismic Toss on (yeah I know he doesn’t have ST in his current moveset though this show has already established that it's easy for Pokémon to relearn moves they previously knew (Paul’s Electivire and Sawyer’s Slurpuff)). I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Zard could even lift up Snorlax for an ST at this point (assuming Ash’s Snorlax isn’t too much heavier than the average Snorlax and I’m guessing it isn’t since Ash’s Snorlax is supposed to be unusually agile for a Snorlax).
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
imagine if he tried that on regirock.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
imagine if he tried that on regirock.
Actually Regirock on average are even lighter than Golem (don’t ask me how). Since we actually know the average mass of every Pokémon, we can do some math to figure this out. If we assume Gary’s Golem has around the same mass as an average Golem (seems fair since Oak was citing how Golem on average at the time were the heaviest known Pokémon 2nd only to Snorlax) then that means JL Zard couldn’t use ST on any Pokémon that is 300kg or more. It’s hard to say how much greater BW Zard’s lifting strength would be though given how much better Zard has gotten in general he probably should be able to lift Snorlax (who on average are a bit over 1.5x heavier than Golem or rather 460kg).
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
The best team Ash could ever use at this point in time is:

1. Pikachu. Pikachu is Ash's longtime companion who has come along way ever since the Johto League. He managed to fight on par with a League winners ace, battled valiantly against Agatha's Ace which convinced her that Ash was prepared for the Battle Frontier, defeated Regice when Sceptile and Charizard likely wouldn't have, managed to battle Latios who defeated 2 of Ash's best pokemon fairly quickly, and managed to perform at a level which consistently made him stay relevant in the face of powerful Pokemon like Ash-Greninja and Alains Charizard (not to mention landing 2 blows on Lysander's Mega Gyarados). It's clear that Pikachu has become one of Ash's strongest Pokemon despite his early days being pretty lackluster.

2. Ash-Greninja. He managed to overpower a Champion's Ace and managed to almost win against a pokemon who defeated an Elite 4's Ace which finally gave us hope that Ash would one day win a league and actually compete with the Elite 4.

3. Sceptile. He was always powerful as a Grovyle (save for his loss against Luvdosc), but evolution took him to a whole new level. He managed to defeat Spencer's Shiftry and later defeated Spencer's Claydol with a powerful Solar Beam which sent Claydol flying knocking him out. Said Claydol was said to be stronger than Venusaur which required the efforts of both Heracross and Swellow to defeat at the time. Since then, Sceptile has grown stronger and managed to defeat Darkrai who remained undefeated prior to its battle with Sceptile.

4. Infernape. Under Ash's guidance, Inferape became very strong as a mere Chimchar. He evidently overpowered and defeated Paul's Ursarang who swept through Ash's Buizel, Staraptor, and even Pikachu. As an Infernape, he defeated Paul's Aggron and Ninjask who managed to gain momentum against Ash's Pikachu and Gliscor (who defeated Drapion which swept half of Ash's team) and despite 2 enervating battles, still won out against Paul's strongest pokemon. After Ash and Infernapes's victory, it only made sense to bring out a competitor who wielded legendary, league sweeping Pokemon.

5. Snorlax. While Gible and Swellow have defeated more than one Pokemon in a single battle, Snorlax has plenty of experience and continues to amaze by battling and defeating both a Frontier Brain's Pokemon with a type disadvantage. To put things into perspective, it took Heracross and Swellow with a type advantage to defeat one of Spencer's pokemon and those two Pokemon managed to perform quite well against Darkrai and Latios respectively.

6. Charizard. Charizard was Ash's strongest pokemon for the longest time. He managed to defeat 3 of Gary's pokemon including his Blastoise which could've blazed through all of Ash's team which included his Snorlax with a type disadvantage and almost triumphed against Harrison's Blaziken in an exciting battle which could not be forgotten as Max recalled Charizard performance back in Johto. He later became the first of Ash's Pokemon who has defeated a legendary. While some may say that legendary birds aren't that impressive as Talonflame and Noivern could defend themselves against them, Nolan's Articuno clearly had specialized training and experience with moves and strategies that effectively covered Articuno's weaknesses (such as Water Pulse). Charizard has become stronger ever since and remains to be Ash's 3rd strongest pokemon.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
The best team Ash could ever use at this point in time is:

1. Pikachu. Pikachu is Ash's longtime companion who has come along way ever since the Johto League. He managed to fight on par with a League winners ace, battled valiantly against Agatha's Ace which convinced her that Ash was prepared for the Battle Frontier, defeated Regice when Sceptile and Charizard likely wouldn't have, managed to battle Latios who defeated 2 of Ash's best pokemon fairly quickly, and managed to perform at a level which consistently made him stay relevant in the face of powerful Pokemon like Ash-Greninja and Alains Charizard (not to mention landing 2 blows on Lysander's Mega Gyarados). It's clear that Pikachu has become one of Ash's strongest Pokemon despite his early days being pretty lackluster.

2. Ash-Greninja. He managed to overpower a Champion's Ace and managed to almost win against a pokemon who defeated an Elite 4's Ace which finally gave us hope that Ash would one day win a league and actually compete with the Elite 4.

3. Sceptile. He was always powerful as a Grovyle (save for his loss against Luvdosc), but evolution took him to a whole new level. He managed to defeat Spencer's Shiftry and later defeated Spencer's Claydol with a powerful Solar Beam which sent Claydol flying knocking him out. Said Claydol was said to be stronger than Venusaur which required the efforts of both Heracross and Swellow to defeat at the time. Since then, Sceptile has grown stronger and managed to defeat Darkrai who remained undefeated prior to its battle with Sceptile.

4. Infernape. Under Ash's guidance, Inferape became very strong as a mere Chimchar. He evidently overpowered and defeated Paul's Ursarang who swept through Ash's Buizel, Staraptor, and even Pikachu. As an Infernape, he defeated Paul's Aggron and Ninjask who managed to gain momentum against Ash's Pikachu and Gliscor (who defeated Drapion which swept half of Ash's team) and despite 2 enervating battles, still won out against Paul's strongest pokemon. After Ash and Infernapes's victory, it only made sense to bring out a competitor who wielded legendary, league sweeping Pokemon.

5. Snorlax. While Gible and Swellow have defeated more than one Pokemon in a single battle, Snorlax has plenty of experience and continues to amaze by battling and defeating both a Frontier Brain's Pokemon with a type disadvantage. To put things into perspective, it took Heracross and Swellow with a type advantage to defeat one of Spencer's pokemon and those two Pokemon managed to perform quite well against Darkrai and Latios respectively.

6. Charizard. Charizard was Ash's strongest pokemon for the longest time. He managed to defeat 3 of Gary's pokemon including his Blastoise which could've blazed through all of Ash's team which included his Snorlax with a type disadvantage and almost triumphed against Harrison's Blaziken in an exciting battle which could not be forgotten as Max recalled Charizard performance back in Johto. He later became the first of Ash's Pokemon who has defeated a legendary. While some may say that legendary birds aren't that impressive as Talonflame and Noivern could defend themselves against them, Nolan's Articuno clearly had specialized training and experience with moves and strategies that effectively covered Articuno's weaknesses (such as Water Pulse). Charizard has become stronger ever since and remains to be Ash's 3rd strongest pokemon.

Out of curiosity why did you make Charizard 6 if you consider it his 3rd strongest?
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Ok, I'll cut jokes about power levels....

I'm impressed by so much Snorlax. I think it's a decent and strong Pokémon but I wouldn't pick it for an all star Ash team. Ok, I'll be short since people covered most of what I'd say:

Pikachu: For all reasons given. It's the pokémon who has the strongest bond to Ash. While it's true M20 is an AU, it's impressive a Pikachu - on the beggining of his carrer - could match Marshadow in raw power. Specially when it's implied Marshadow was using his Z-move. Trailers for M21 also suggested he was going one-on-one with Zeraora. Assuming it's basically the same Pikachu we see in the show with some differences on how his story played out, Pikachu's cute look basically hides a force to be reckoned. Prime!universe Pikachu is no pushover since it has beaten a Regice, tied with a Latios and took down TWO pseudo-legendaries on Kalos finals. I've always that had Metagross not hit him so hard, Pikachu would probably soften Charizard up more for Greninja to finish the job.

Charizard: the big lizard might be over-hyped - I like him, to be honest - but it's very clear it's one of the most dependable Pokémon on Ash's parties. Considering movie 3, it's been showed to travel a long way to aid his trainer on a tough spot. And considering their early story, it's impressive Charizard would reach this point for Ash. And it hold his own fairly well against Entei. Later battles proved his might.

Sceptile: Treecko went a long way from being a loner to becoming a very trustable member of Ash's team. The fact so many people pick him just shows how far he went. He came in the show after so many years of Charizard hype and nostalgia, yet managed to be an impressive and powerful character in his own right. His victory over Darkrai is impressive because he just came back after a long, long time in reserve status. Makes me think Sawyer would have some trouble if Ash had his Sceptile even if with mega evolution.

Greninja: power up or not, release status or not, it's still a force to be considered. Much like the early 3 above, it build a powerful bond with Ash. The flashback during Olympia's debut episode showed the reasons why Battle Bond is so rare: it's an occurance where both trainer and Pokémon are completly compatible. Froakie has the same passion for battling, training and getting stronger as Ash. I think there are more Froakies out in the anime world with Battle Bond but because of the differences on their views on battling and personality, it's impossible to draw the power of the alternate form out.

Infernape: super blaze might come accross as glorified cheating but infernape is another pokémon who went a long way. His constant need of proving himself and all the struggle to get over his own traumas made the wimp Chimchar become a competent battler. And without relying on his ability.

Krookodile: from a stalker who randomly created a rivalry for Pikachu - really where did it come from? It wasn't even hinted when it was introduced as a Sandile - it become a good battler. Snorlax is probably stronger but I feel Krook has a lot of unexplored potential.

It's sad Gible couldn't go all way evolution-wise otherwise, Garchomp would be in the final place hehe

and one of those having a quad type advantage over him and being basically immune to Charizard's standard finisher

Which opponent was that? I really don't remember, unless you are refering to the Dusclops battle on BF?

Man, Ash's grass pokemon kinda get screwed over when you think about it.

Chespin - who should have always been Ash's - got worse. At least the others belonged to Ash and get to do some battling.

At least Mach Punch doesn't have to rely on hitting an opponent who isn't too heavy for it to work.

I really wonder why the staff just didn't give Sky Drop to Charizard. Really, we can basically turn it into Sismic Toss and it'd be the same thing.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
@Spider-Phoenix I'm pretty sure that your hypothetical team is the team that the writers would’ve had an XYZ Ash use of be were to assemble his “best team” based on the quizzes in XYZ 40 and 43.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
@Spider-Phoenix I'm pretty sure that your hypothetical team is the team that the writers would’ve had an XYZ Ash use of be were to assemble his “best team” based on the quizzes in XYZ 40 and 43.

What quizzes? The ones in the eyecatch?
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
What quizzes? The ones in the eyecatch?
Yeah those mid episode ones. We had Charizard, Infernape and A-G in XYZ 40, and Sceptile, Krookodile and A-G in XYZ 43 with Pikachu also conveniently being visually present in both cases. In that sense the writers seem to be implying that those Pokémon would be Ash’s “aces” and hence would form his best team as of then.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
@Mew2

TBH Golems are bottom tier in the anime and get wrecked 95% of the times they appear. Apart from Bertha's Golem, which was quite strong since it belonged to an E4 member, I hardly remember any of the Golem species that appeared in the anime to show anything even decent. I honestly found Charizard wrecking Gary's Scizor more impressive in the fight despite Scizor's 4x weakness to Fire compared to Golem because Scizor clearly proved its strength earlier in the fight.
 

Hanto

Water Addiction
1. Pikachu
2. Greninja
3. Charizard
4. Sceptile
5. Krookodile
6. Snorlax/Swellow/Glalie
 

keepitsimple

site of lies
I kind of want to stir the pot here for the sake of it. I did say GPCISS earlier but I changed my mind

Ash-Greninja
Infernape
Charizard
Sceptile
Snorlax
Krookodile

Sure, at his apex, Pikachu is better than all of these but he's too inconsistent to be reliable lmao. In order for him to be on Ash's best team we have to assume he's at the top of his game and will stay like that which is never gonna happen. Whatever you consider to be the weakest link of CKIGSS, Pikachu spends more time in a state weaker than that pokemon than he does in tier 1 or whatever it's called.
 
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