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Ash's Pokemon. Best origin story?

Imagine thinking froakie has a better backstory then chimchar, litten or charmander lol
Litten's backstory was incredibly basic and was literally bad cry porn, so no idea why you even put it up there with Chimchar or Charmander since it was a boring, uninteresting Pokemon all throughout its evolutions. Couldn't care less.

As for the other two, there backstories were great despite not being as resonant as Froakie's or Pikachu's.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

#Dracovish2021 Y'all don't get to bully the fish
Litten's backstory was incredibly basic and was literally bad cry porn, so no idea why you even put it up there with Chimchar or Charmander since it was a boring, uninteresting Pokemon all throughout its evolutions. Couldn't care less.

As for the other two, there backstories were great despite not being as resonant as Froakie's or Pikachu's.
Boring? Lol it was far more interesting than froakies backstory which wasn't explored until 100 episodes in when they decided to do ash greninja instead of giving Ash a mega. Yeah incineroar should have been utilized more but this post is about backstory, and litten's backstory with stoutland and stoutland then passing on was way more interesting than it being revealed hundred episodes later that oh froakie abandoned many people and it has some power inside which is still unexplained and a convenient feature for ash to skip mega evolution. Yeah hard pass on that origin story. Litten is infinitely better.
But then again, just my opinion
 

Applecorp

Well-Known Member
Litten's backstory was incredibly basic and was literally bad cry porn, so no idea why you even put it up there with Chimchar or Charmander since it was a boring, uninteresting Pokemon all throughout its evolutions. Couldn't care less.
Part of his backstory involved his best pal dying. Maybe you didn't think it was interesting but that was one of the few times many of us had seen something so tragically sad in the series so it made alot of us more sympathetic towards Litten. Don't blame us if you have a heart of stone and care more about some frog's half-assed montage.
 
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Boring? Lol it was far more interesting than froakies backstory which wasn't explored until 100 episodes in when they decided to do ash greninja instead of giving Ash a mega. Yeah incineroar should have been utilized more but this post is about backstory, and litten's backstory with stoutland and stoutland then passing on was way more interesting than it being revealed hundred episodes later that oh froakie abandoned many people and it has some power inside which is still unexplained and a convenient feature for ash to skip mega evolution. Yeah hard pass on that origin story. Litten is infinitely better.
But then again, just my opinion

Part of his backstory involved his best pal dying. Maybe you didn't think it was interesting but that was one of the few times many of us had seen something so tragically sad in the series so it made alot of us more sympathetic towards Litten. Don't blame us if you have a heart of stone and care more about some frog's half-assed montage.
And it was barely utilized after the episode(think the whole Stoutland thing was mentioned one time after the episode when Litten evolved into Torracat). This is why I said it was uninteresting and boring because I didn't feel like it meant much. Pikachu's backstory with Ash, for example, is both sad and is strengthened by his actions and the events after the fact.

A good backstory/origin story means a lot more than just a singular event. If one event is all that you need to call it a good backstory, well more power to you, but that's utterly basic and devoid of substance. Litten had a cry porn backstory and a rivalry with Kuki's Incineroar. It didn't have substance, it wasn't interesting, and it certainly wasn't good writing. What the backstory does for the character is incredibly important to me when deciding what's a good backstory and what isn't.

Froakie's backstory literally drives his character and its relationship with Ash. And the show wasn't just content to leave it at that. Froakie's backstory is tied in with its eventual AG form and all of the ups and downs that came up with that.

I'm a wimp when it comes to media. Sure, the Stoutland episode was sad and emotional, but if you can't deliver on it, it loses punch and just ends up as a plot device.

The frog's " half-assed " montage had more eventual weight and power to it and that's why I cared. If I wanted to watch weightless cry porn, I would watch bad dramas.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

#Dracovish2021 Y'all don't get to bully the fish
And it was barely utilized after the episode(think the whole Stoutland thing was mentioned one time after the episode when Litten evolved into Torracat). This is why I said it was uninteresting and boring because I didn't feel like it meant much. Pikachu's backstory with Ash, for example, is both sad and is strengthened by his actions and the events after the fact.

A good backstory/origin story means a lot more than just a singular event. If one event is all that you need to call it a good backstory, well more power to you, but that's utterly basic and devoid of substance. Litten had a cry porn backstory and a rivalry with Kuki's Incineroar. It didn't have substance, it wasn't interesting, and it certainly wasn't good writing. What the backstory does for the character is incredibly important to me when deciding what's a good backstory and what isn't.

Froakie's backstory literally drives his character and its relationship with Ash. And the show wasn't just content to leave it at that. Froakie's backstory is tied in with its eventual AG form and all of the ups and downs that came up with that.

I'm a wimp when it comes to media. Sure, the Stoutland episode was sad and emotional, but if you can't deliver on it, it loses punch and just ends up as a plot device.

The frog's " half-assed " montage had more eventual weight and power to it and that's why I cared. If I wanted to watch weightless cry porn, I would watch bad dramas.
Ah yes froakies backstory came incredibly clutch for its Amazingly well written storyli- oh wait, it didn't have an amazing storyline. It just hogged all of XYZ's screentime from ash's other Pokémon, became a hype machine for the fandom, a half assed poorly explained way to try and give ash a mega without actually giving him a mega, it's lore of bond phenomenon was bs, and it's storyline amounted to nothing. Wanted to get stronger? Loses at the league. Does next to nothing in the team flare arc. Is suddenly able to sense vines so now ash must release it to protect kalos which makes no freaking sense. It's backstory was literally brought on 100+ episodes and amounted to nothing coz in the end greninjas arc sucked, and it just took more time than necessary, severely hurting poor goodra and noivern.

Meanwhile Litten's backstory existed from the start, explained it's entire personality trait, was a great way for ash to bond with it and catch it, had an emotional episode when it passed away, that stoutland storyline was focused again, especially in poni island where it gained a new move due to it. Struck up a rivalry with kukuis Mon to prove it stronger and eventually defeated it, taking over the champion belt by a symbolic evolution. Should incineroar have gotten more focus? Absolutely. But it did still get its own storyline which didn't take away from ash's other mons in the way greninja did.
So an incredible backstory leading to a satisfying arc conclusion, even if more focus would have been beneficial Vs a lame backstory leading to an unsatisfying arc in the end. Easy choice for me. Greninja had so much potential especially after that great perfecting the ash greninja form and defeating wulfric arc, but it ended in an unsatisfying manner.
So ig that "cry porn" as u call it is much better than the so called brilliant storyline froakie had. It's backstory had no substance, Litten definitely did.
 
Ah yes froakies backstory came incredibly clutch for its Amazingly well written storyli- oh wait, it didn't have an amazing storyline. It just hogged all of XYZ's screentime from ash's other Pokémon, became a hype machine for the fandom, a half assed poorly explained way to try and give ash a mega without actually giving him a mega, it's lore of bond phenomenon was bs, and it's storyline amounted to nothing. Wanted to get stronger? Loses at the league. Does next to nothing in the team flare arc. Is suddenly able to sense vines so now ash must release it to protect kalos which makes no freaking sense. It's backstory was literally brought on 100+ episodes and amounted to nothing coz in the end greninjas arc sucked, and it just took more time than necessary, severely hurting poor goodra and noivern.

Meanwhile Litten's backstory existed from the start, explained it's entire personality trait, was a great way for ash to bond with it and catch it, had an emotional episode when it passed away, that stoutland storyline was focused again, especially in poni island where it gained a new move due to it. Struck up a rivalry with kukuis Mon to prove it stronger and eventually defeated it, taking over the champion belt by a symbolic evolution. Should incineroar have gotten more focus? Absolutely. But it did still get its own storyline which didn't take away from ash's other mons in the way greninja did.
So an incredible backstory leading to a satisfying arc conclusion, even if more focus would have been beneficial Vs a lame backstory leading to an unsatisfying arc in the end. Easy choice for me. Greninja had so much potential especially after that great perfecting the ash greninja form and defeating wulfric arc, but it ended in an unsatisfying manner.
So ig that "cry porn" as u call it is much better than the so called brilliant storyline froakie had. It's backstory had no substance, Litten definitely did.
Much of this is just a mishmash of irrelevant drivel and inaccuracies, but I'll go through it anyway.

It just hogged all of XYZ's screen time from ash's other Pokémon
This is both untrue and irrelevant, we're talking about a singular Pokemon here

became a hype machine for the fandom
This is both irrelevant and not even inherently bad. You're going to have to justify how this factors into backstory, otherwise it seems it's just misplaced rage

a half assed poorly explained way to try and give ash a mega without actually giving him a mega
Again, how does this factor into Froakie's backstory?

it's lore of bond phenomenon was bs
How was it bs? What made it bs? Can you explain or are you just going to give me singular one-liners that don't even mean anything?

and it's storyline amounted to nothing
It amounted to


- Ash and AG going toe to toe with a Champion and its Pokemon
- Ash and AG crystallizing their bond after a severe case of depression, eventually leading to the mastered form(this alone is an understatement of how powerful the entire arc was, both the eventual build-up and pay-off).
- Ash and AG getting second place in the league, and while it was disappointing they didn't win, it was done with AG and was the best placing by Ash in a league with incredibly powerful foes in a region with actual standards.
- Ash and AG being one of the driving forces in the Team Flare Arc
- Ash and AG eventually going their separate ways in a powerful scene that signified the final end of Froakie's arc and a new one as the protector of Kalos. This ties in incredibly well with what Professor Sycamore told them.

Wanted to get stronger?Loses at the league.
These aren't contradictory things...

Does next to nothing in the team flare arc.
Lol, so most being one of the core Pokemon in the TF Arc is now equivalent to nothing. AG and his bond with Ash was literally most of XY 133.

Is suddenly able to sense vines so now ash must release it to protect kalos which makes no freaking sense
I don't see how it doesn't make sense, Lysandre was interested in the Bond Phenomenon and literally remarked it could be used to achieve new powers and guide humanity. Not only that, but it was pretty clear that AG and Squishy had a clear connection from their time in the snowy mountains.

It's backstory was literally brought on 100+ episodes and amounted to nothing coz in the end greninjas arc sucked, and it just took more time than necessary, severely hurting poor goodra and noivern
I'm not sure why the length of time matters, at least you haven't sufficiently explained it atm, but it's not like Froakie was just sitting there for a lot of XY.

Goodra's arc was great, not sure how it hurt there. I can cede Noivern though.

And seriously, " amounted to nothing coz Greninja's arc sucked " is like a perfect encapsulation of the arguments you've outlined here, if you can even call them proper arguments since it seems you were primarily moving the goal post with irrelevant crap, writing one-liners that had a total lack of substantiation, and just totally being inaccurate.

---

I'll go through the stuff you posted about Litten as well, just had to go through the stuff you wrote about Greninja/Froakie since it was pretty bad.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

#Dracovish2021 Y'all don't get to bully the fish
Much of this is just a mishmash of irrelevant drivel and inaccuracies, but I'll go through it anyway.



This is both untrue and irrelevant, we're talking about a singular Pokemon here



This is both irrelevant and not even inherently bad. You're going to have to justify how this factors into backstory, otherwise it seems it's just misplaced rage



Again, how does this factor into Froakie's backstory?



How was it bs? What made it bs? Can you explain or are you just going to give me singular one-liners that don't even mean anything?



It amounted to


- Ash and AG going toe to toe with a Champion and its Pokemon
- Ash and AG crystallizing their bond after a severe case of depression, eventually leading to the mastered form(this alone is an understatement of how powerful the entire arc was, both the eventual build-up and pay-off).
- Ash and AG getting second place in the league, and while it was disappointing they didn't win, it was done with AG and was the best placing by Ash in a league with incredibly powerful foes in a region with actual standards.
- Ash and AG being one of the driving forces in the Team Flare Arc
- Ash and AG eventually going their separate ways in a powerful scene that signified the final end of Froakie's arc and a new one as the protector of Kalos. This ties in incredibly well with what Professor Sycamore told them.



These aren't contradictory things...



Lol, so most being one of the core Pokemon in the TF Arc is now equivalent to nothing. AG and his bond with Ash was literally most of XY 133.



I don't see how it doesn't make sense, Lysandre was interested in the Bond Phenomenon and literally remarked it could be used to achieve new powers and guide humanity. Not only that, but it was pretty clear that AG and Squishy had a clear connection from their time in the snowy mountains.



I'm not sure why the length of time matters, at least you haven't sufficiently explained it atm, but it's not like Froakie was just sitting there for a lot of XY.

Goodra's arc was great, not sure how it hurt there. I can cede Noivern though.

And seriously, " amounted to nothing coz Greninja's arc sucked " is like a perfect encapsulation of the arguments you've outlined here, if you can even call them proper arguments since it seems you were primarily moving the goal post with irrelevant crap, writing one-liners that had a total lack of substantiation, and just totally being inaccurate.

---

I'll go through the stuff you posted about Litten as well, just had to go through the stuff you wrote about Greninja/Froakie since it was pretty bad.

Really?
Allowed to go toe in toe with a champion's Mon? Yeah na. If u really believe ash was gonna defeat diantha idk what to tell ya. That was just a hype moment amounting to nothing especially when ash just loses the league because I don't believe alains charizard is dianthas M gardevoir equal, let alone ash - greninja being diantha's ace's equal. That depression arc which leads to mastering the form is wasted potential coz a mastered AG leads to NOTHING. Ash losing against Alain was bad writing.
The bond Phenomenon is bs coz literally it's only explanation is that it occurs with greninja who have special latent abilities, and once happened in ancient history with a random ninja dude, who's greninja also looked like Ash for some reason. The only thing greninja did in the TF arc was literally just mark chespins spot with its shuriken. Every other Pokémon was fighting the megalith with greninja, it wasn't special. It's release was out of nowhere because I don't see one instance where greninja suddenly had the ability to sense the evil vines and destroy them. Maybe bring that up in the before mentioned TF arc? It's release sucked and shouldn't have happened. Yes ash had a great bond with greninja but from a story point of view there was no end moment for me that justified all the time spent in developing that one bond. Ash didn't win the league, greninja did no special part in the TF arc and then it ends up being released for a stupid reason. You're the one who tries to shift the topic of backstory into saying froakies backstory is better coz it amounted to a great storyline for him, when neither is true.
Greninja hogging up spotlight was a point I brought up to show how his storyline took away from others storyline and also ended up unsatisfying, two flaws in one. Also Lysandre being like Ash and his bond phenomenon would do great wonders for my new world but never really elaborating on that doesn't really make me thing yeah greninja had a sufficient enough part in TF arc. Lysandre really made no sense tbh lol, wanting a beautiful world by destroying the current one with vines? Sheesh. When I talk about goodra I mean goodras return, which amounted to nothing. I don't really need to write essays to explain my fault with greninja, these one liners do it perfectly. I understand for a Pokémon to achieve its goal of getting stronger it doesn't need to win a league, just like infernape, but honestly there was no such moment that greninja perfectly shined in the endgame tosto it's strength. Defeating Mega sceptile doesn't do it for me, greninja needed a proper endgame moment to show it's strength helped ash get a great victory/more achievements. I just don't like how it ended up, at all. Totally unsatisfying for me.
"What you said about greninja was just plain bad"
Aka your opinion is wrong coz it doesn't matches mine where I try to justify XY's faults, esp with greninja.

Litten's backstory >>> froakies backstory
That's all I really have to say, even if u try to argue by saying froakies backstory is better coz it led to a greater storyline for him, which I disagree.
Litten being with an old mentor Mon which passes away and thus ash catches him >>>> froakie rejecting many trainers coz they won't be able to draw out its true strength and then choosing ash coz he was losing to wobuffet and trying to protect Pikachu.
 
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Leonhart

Imagineer
While I personally didn't get teary-eyed when SM021 aired, I did think that Atsuhiro Tomioka had a lot of courage to do what he did considering how light-hearted SM had been up until that point. Having Mooland die so that Nyabby would have no other choice but to join Satoshi seemed quite cruel to me, but I admit that the death was handled well, and it reminded me of something that would've seemed fitting in early OS.
 
Really?
Allowed to go toe in toe with a champion's Mon? Yeah na. If u really believe ash was gonna defeat diantha idk what to tell ya. That was just a hype moment amounting to nothing especially when ash just loses the league because I don't believe alains charizard is dianthas M gardevoir equal, let alone ash - greninja being diantha's ace's equal. That depression arc which leads to mastering the form is wasted potential coz a mastered AG leads to NOTHING. Ash losing against Alain was bad writing.
The bond Phenomenon is bs coz literally it's only explanation is that it occurs with greninja who have special latent abilities, and once happened in ancient history with a random ninja dude, who's greninja also looked like Ash for some reason. The only thing greninja did in the TF arc was literally just mark chespins spot with its shuriken. Every other Pokémon was fighting the megalith with greninja, it wasn't special. It's release was out of nowhere because I don't see one instance where greninja suddenly had the ability to sense the evil vines and destroy them. Maybe bring that up in the before mentioned TF arc? It's release sucked and shouldn't have happened. Yes ash had a great bond with greninja but from a story point of view there was no end moment for me that justified all the time spent in developing that one bond. Ash didn't win the league, greninja did no special part in the TF arc and then it ends up being released for a stupid reason. You're the one who tries to shift the topic of backstory into saying froakies backstory is better coz it amounted to a great storyline for him, when neither is true.
Greninja hogging up spotlight was a point I brought up to show how his storyline took away from others storyline and also ended up unsatisfying, two flaws in one. Also Lysandre being like Ash and his bond phenomenon would do great wonders for my new world but never really elaborating on that doesn't really make me thing yeah greninja had a sufficient enough part in TF arc. Lysandre really made no sense tbh lol, wanting a beautiful world by destroying the current one with vines? Sheesh. When I talk about goodra I mean goodras return, which amounted to nothing. I don't really need to write essays to explain my fault with greninja, these one liners do it perfectly. I understand for a Pokémon to achieve its goal of getting stronger it doesn't need to win a league, just like infernape, but honestly there was no such moment that greninja perfectly shined in the endgame tosto it's strength. Defeating Mega sceptile doesn't do it for me, greninja needed a proper endgame moment to show it's strength helped ash get a great victory/more achievements. I just don't like how it ended up, at all. Totally unsatisfying for me.
"What you said about greninja was just plain bad"
Aka your opinion is wrong coz it doesn't matches mine where I try to justify XY's faults, esp with greninja.

Litten's backstory >>> froakies backstory
That's all I really have to say, even if u try to argue by saying froakies backstory is better coz it led to a greater storyline for him, which I disagree.
Litten being with an old mentor Mon which passes away and thus ash catches him >>>> froakie rejecting many trainers coz they won't be able to draw out its true strength and then choosing ash coz he was losing to wobuffet and trying to protect Pikachu.
Could you separate your giant paragraphs into smaller paragraphs?

Allowed to go toe in toe with a champion's Mon? Yeah na. If u really believe ash was gonna defeat diantha idk what to tell ya. That was just a hype moment amounting to nothing especially when ash just loses the league because I don't believe alains charizard is dianthas M gardevoir equal, let alone ash - greninja being diantha's ace's equal. That depression arc which leads to mastering the form is wasted potential coz a mastered AG leads to NOTHING. Ash losing against Alain was bad writing.
Lol, so they didn't go toe to toe? Was Diantha dunking on AG? Did Mega Gardevoir not collapse? That " hype moment " literally amounted to the first instance of the mastered AG form and was incredible feat.

I don't really care about how Alain's MCX factored into this and I definitely don't understand how this is relevant to the conversation about Froakie's backstory. Literally, as with your first post, a lot of this is just moaning about irrelevant topics and not even saying anything.

And again, the part about " mastered AG leading to nothing " is devoid of nuance and represents obliviousness to what happened in the show.

The bond Phenomenon is bs coz literally it's only explanation is that it occurs with greninja who have special latent abilities, and once happened in ancient history with a random ninja dude, who's greninja also looked like Ash for some reason
What? I mean this is an incredibly narrow way of looking at what happened, but it seems like you understood the very basic premise behind it. It happened to Ash's Froakie because of its bond with Ash and its inherent power. So I guess it wasn't bs? I don't understand how this substiantes the part about it being " bs " since it seems like you got the very basic gist of it.

The only thing greninja did in the TF arc was literally just mark chespins spot with its shuriken. Every other Pokémon was fighting the megalith with greninja, it wasn't special.
You can rewatch episodes 132 to 136 or just read the summaries since it seems you forgot a lot of what happened or just selectively chose to ignore it. Lysandre was literally calling the Bond Phenomenon special and throughout the arc, Ash and AG were significant driving factors of Lysandre's take down, and played a significant role with the megalith.

It's release was out of nowhere because I don't see one instance where greninja suddenly had the ability to sense the evil vines and destroy them. Maybe bring that up in the before mentioned TF arc? It's release sucked and shouldn't have happened
I mean, the whole vine thing arose with the TF arc. AG's potential powers were quite literally hinted in the arc and its relationship with Squishy was hinted beforehand. This is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Yes ash had a great bond with greninja but from a story point of view there was no end moment for me that justified all the time spent in developing that one bond. Ash didn't win the league, greninja did no special part in the TF arc and then it ends up being released for a stupid reason.
I've tried to outline why what you listed as things that didn't happen did happen or to list them in a way that did talk about how it was the several culminations of the bond that AG and Ash shared. As I said before, Ash and AG separating was done for a reason, one that was foreshadowed. Ash and AG are both characters who know the world is bigger than them and as Ash said when they left, them meeting and having the form was in service of something, something that ended up being greater than the two of them.

You're the one who tries to shift the topic of backstory into saying froakies backstory is better coz it amounted to a great storyline for him, when neither is true. Greninja hogging up spotlight was a point I brought up to show how his storyline took away from others storyline and also ended up unsatisfying, two flaws in one.
But that isn't shifting anything. I'm literally still talking about backstory. Are you seriously going to equate that to you bringing up irrelevant Pokemon or hype moments when neither have anything to do with the topic? Greninja hogging the spotlight isn't even relevant to his backstory and is an example of shoehorning crap.

Also Lysandre being like Ash and his bond phenomenon would do great wonders for my new world but never really elaborating on that doesn't really make me thing yeah greninja had a sufficient enough part in TF arc.
Lysandre literally takes an interest in the Bond Phenomenon, saying it could lead to new powers and that it could serve as a guide to humanity. I'm not sure what kind of elaboration you want.

Lysandre really made no sense tbh lol, wanting a beautiful world by destroying the current one with vines? Sheesh.
Irrelevant.

I don't really need to write essays to explain my fault with greninja, these one liners do it perfectly.
"What you said about greninja was just plain bad"
Aka your opinion is wrong coz it doesn't matches mine where I try to justify XY's faults, esp with greninja.
Man, I must have really high standards when it comes to arguments when I could just say " Litten's backstory sucked " or " Litten amounted to nothing " or " Litten was bs " and pretend I made good points and my opinions are infallible. This isn't Twitter; on a forum, you would think people would go deep into their opinions and try to justify them.

I could easily just take what you wrote about Litten line by line, say it sucked, didn't amount to anything, or any other of the single line statements you pretend mean something when they really don't. I would think that might be aggravating to you.

You don't even really need essays, and sure, it's not like I can objectively claim trying to justify things without resorting to literally stating opinions is better. When I said the part about what you wrote as being plain bad, I meant how you expressed it. Differing opinions are fine and dandy, but justifying them is different.

Since it's clear there isn't going to be an equivalent amount of effort or something even close to resembling it in justifying what is being said as you literally exclaimed that " one-liners work perfectly " this'll be my last post.
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

#Dracovish2021 Y'all don't get to bully the fish
Could you separate your giant paragraphs into smaller paragraphs?



Lol, so they didn't go toe to toe? Was Diantha dunking on AG? Did Mega Gardevoir not collapse? That " hype moment " literally amounted to the first instance of the mastered AG form and was incredible feat.

I don't really care about how Alain's MCX factored into this and I definitely don't understand how this is relevant to the conversation about Froakie's backstory. Literally, as with your first post, a lot of this is just moaning about irrelevant topics and not even saying anything.

And again, the part about " mastered AG leading to nothing " is devoid of nuance and represents obliviousness to what happened in the show.



What? I mean this is an incredibly narrow way of looking at what happened, but it seems like you understood the very basic premise behind it. It happened to Ash's Froakie because of its bond with Ash and its inherent power. So I guess it wasn't bs? I don't understand how this substiantes the part about it being " bs " since it seems like you got the very basic gist of it.



You can rewatch episodes 132 to 136 or just read the summaries since it seems you forgot a lot of what happened or just selectively chose to ignore it. Lysandre was literally calling the Bond Phenomenon special and throughout the arc, Ash and AG were significant driving factors of Lysandre's take down, and played a significant role with the megalith.



I mean, the whole vine thing arose with the TF arc. AG's potential powers were quite literally hinted in the arc and its relationship with Squishy was hinted beforehand. This is just arguing for the sake of arguing.



I've tried to outline why what you listed as things that didn't happen did happen or to list them in a way that did talk about how it was the several culminations of the bond that AG and Ash shared. As I said before, Ash and AG separating was done for a reason, one that was foreshadowed. Ash and AG are both characters who know the world is bigger than them and as Ash said when they left, them meeting and having the form was in service of something, something that ended up being greater than the two of them.



But that isn't shifting anything. I'm literally still talking about backstory. Are you seriously going to equate that to you bringing up irrelevant Pokemon or hype moments when neither have anything to do with the topic? Greninja hogging the spotlight isn't even relevant to his backstory and is an example of shoehorning crap.



Lysandre literally takes an interest in the Bond Phenomenon, saying it could lead to new powers and that it could serve as a guide to humanity. I'm not sure what kind of elaboration you want.



Irrelevant.





Man, I must have really high standards when it comes to arguments when I could just say " Litten's backstory sucked " or " Litten amounted to nothing " or " Litten was bs " and pretend I made good points and my opinions are infallible. This isn't Twitter; on a forum, you would think people would go deep into their opinions and try to justify them.

I could easily just take what you wrote about Litten line by line, say it sucked, didn't amount to anything, or any other of the single line statements you pretend mean something when they really don't. I would think that might be aggravating to you.

You don't even really need essays, and sure, it's not like I can objectively claim trying to justify things without resorting to literally stating opinions is better. When I said the part about what you wrote as being plain bad, I meant how you expressed it. Differing opinions are fine and dandy, but justifying them is different.

Since it's clear there isn't going to be an equivalent amount of effort or something even close to resembling it in justifying what is being said as you literally exclaimed that " one-liners work perfectly " this'll be my last post.

Ash's bond draws out latent abilities froakie has giving it a new form which isn't a mega, but is the writers trying to replace megas for ash since gen 6 has no mega evolutions aside from diancie. That is for me, bs. I mean for infernape they utilized the blaze ability and that was creative. For greninja, not only did this form which looks like ash existed thousands of years ago for a random dude too, its origin for me seems half assed. Froakie's latent abilities are drawn out by ash's bond. I was hoping for something more interesting, the lore for me was disappointing and uncreative since it's another ash's bond helps a Pokémon to get a new form. Then again, that's how I see it.

I guess you're kinda right I could have been more detailed in my explanations but I do think what i said sufficed. And for TF arc I do know those episodes, ash's greninja did only one thing that was noteworthy, marking chespin with shuriken. The rest it did was similar to what every Mon of gym leaders, diantha, Steven, malva, Alain etc. Did. Nothing special. And for lysandre being like ash's powers will be the gateway to my new world, why? How would his bond do that? Ig I would have liked more explanation. Anyway that's just what I think. Thanks for keeping the discussion civil, have a good day
 

Ignition

That damn smile
As others have said, Litten and Chimchar. I know the sad backstory fit Ash's Fire Types are a old trope but I think they did it better than not only his other Fire Types but also any of his other abandoned Pokémon
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Infernape, it was Charizard done right essentially. Infernape got to prove himself and beat Paul, which is what should have happened with Damien instead of the guy just disappearing after his only appearance. It would have been extremely satisfying to see Charizard just curbstomp Damien and his team, making him realize he's trash as he's eliminated from the League by the very Pokemon he released! (And the same to Pignite, he should have evolved AGAIN to beat Seamus and further humiliate him. Imagine Emboar roasting his trainer in the first round instead of Ash eliminating Trip for some stupid reason, it would have drastically improved the Unova League!)

Charizard is a close second

Greninja got nothing on these two lol
 

ShinyCharyZard

Honesty=Infractions
Snivy had potential for a huge plot around her past and growing with a trainer she respected, however they totally wasted the fact that she, as a Pokemon, disowned her previous trainer by going nowhere with the story.. but then again, they wasted her as a Pokemon in general, so what could we expect?

So real talk? Chimchar. Everything from start to finish was done really well. It was one of those rare occasions where we got to experience a Pokemon's full journey without all of the "offscreen training" rubbish. The fact it had PTSD from its Zangoose attack and therefore struggled when facing the species was something they did really well, alongside all of the stuff with Paul, like having abandonment issues and not realising its own potential until it experienced love, then growing into a beast that decimated opponents once unleashing its true power. I have to hand it to the writers on this one, they did really well and it'll always be hard to beat..
 
Snivy had potential for a huge plot around her past and growing with a trainer she respected, however they totally wasted the fact that she, as a Pokemon, disowned her previous trainer by going nowhere with the story.. but then again, they wasted her as a Pokemon in general, so what could we expect?

So real talk? Chimchar. Everything from start to finish was done really well. It was one of those rare occasions where we got to experience a Pokemon's full journey without all of the "offscreen training" rubbish. The fact it had PTSD from its Zangoose attack and therefore struggled when facing the species was something they did really well, alongside all of the stuff with Paul, like having abandonment issues and not realising its own potential until it experienced love, then growing into a beast that decimated opponents once unleashing its true power. I have to hand it to the writers on this one, they did really well and it'll always be hard to beat..
Snivy had a massive amount of potential for sure. She was my favorite BW Pokemon, surpassing even Krookodile
 
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