Ash's strongest Fire-type Pokemon

[JonathanChone]

1. True though really only the 8th gym feat actually mattered in establishing Infernape as a TOP Ash Pokémon
2. The first time he beat Ursaring was thanks to special Blaze though sure it’s still impressive and also Staraptor and Pikachu were heavily damaged and burned respectively before facing Ursaring ergo that “sweep” isn’t as impressive as people make it out to be
3. Debatable (Infernape definitely not faster than Ash-Greninja or even Sceptile) though the fact that it kept up with a Motordrive boosted Electivire is impressive
4. Pikachu has a long history of inconsistency, so that’s an iffy one (e.g Serena’s Sylveon our performed it in XYZ 12 which would be considered “late” XY). Pikachu has only battled at his full potential on a handful of occasions (see my sig).
5. Yeah it has special Blaze which gives it an ME like power boost though sadly it can only be in that state for at most 1/3rd of its health (notice how I said “at most”).
6. So was I just imagining underground Flare Blitz?
7. Well it was as a Charizard but he did rank Gary’s Blastoise’s Hydro Pump and Gary’s Blastoise > Barry’s Empoleon
8. And was helped by Pikachu for both Aggron and Electivire whereas Charizard solo killed Golem and Blastoise, and Scizor only took slight damage from its Quick Attacks being deflected by Muk

Let’s see Infernape has never beaten a Legendary whereas Charizard was the first non-leagendary Pokémon to do so. Also and more importantly we know that Charizard has gone through rigorous training for the equivalent of about 4 regions (to understand just how intense it must have been Charizard before training was still arguably Ash’s strongest at the time yet got fodderised by even the “gentlest” Charizard living there), so even if Infernape has more potential it wouldn’t be realistic for a Pokémon with 1 region of experience to be overall better than Charizard (though I do think Blaze Infernape is a tad stronger but again unlike the Ash-Greninja form Infernape only gets access to special Blaze when =< 1/3rd health).

Impressive analysis and thanks, even we can almost certain that Paul's Electivire > Gary's Blastoise (because Paul meet Ash when Ash was at his peak, and still able to take Ash down several times even Ash has grown up more than when he was battling Gary, yet he's still 10 years old XD)

 

[Genaller]

Impressive analysis and thanks, even we can almost certain that Paul's Electivire > Gary's Blastoise (because Paul meet Ash when Ash was at his peak, and still able to take Ash down several times even Ash has grown up more than when he was battling Gary, yet he's still 10 years old XD)

I agree with that. I’m confident that Infernape > JL Charizard (he did beat a much tougher trainer and had the deck heavily stacked against him in that last battle) and arguably (with Blaze included) is even better than BF Zard.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

1.Charizard (BW)
2.Infernape (Blaze)
3.Charizard (BF/Articuno)
4.Charizard (JL)
5.Infernape
6.Charizard (Pre Charicific Valley Training)
7.Torkoal (Oak Ranch Training)
8.Pignite
9.Quilava/Torkoal (HL)

 

[Genaller]

1.Charizard (BW)
2.Infernape (Blaze)
3.Charizard (BF/Articuno)
4.Charizard (JL)
5.Infernape
6.Charizard (Pre Charicific Valley Training)
7.Torkoal (Oak Ranch Training)
8.Pignite
9.Quilava/Torkoal (HL)

1. Infernape in special Blaze state
2. Charizard (late BW)
3. Charizard (BF)
4. Charizard (JL)
5. Infernape
6. Charizard pre-training
7. Talonflame
8. Torkoal post Oak’s Lab training
9. Pignite
10. Quilava

Objectively speaking it’s really hard to measure BW Charizard’s true strength though by feats dominating Volkner’s Luxray and Paul’s Motordrive Electivire > dominating Iris’s Dragonite. Of course special Blaze only activates when Infernape is low on health, so Charizard would still definitively be the overall better Pokémon.

 

[ash&charizardfan]

I accept and respect all opinions that saying Charizard is stronger, but what makes me think Infernape is really strong includes:

1. He defeat 2 of gyms leader's pokemons 4 times in a row (with 3 being main pokemons)
2. Defeat Paul's Usaring (which has sweep half of Ash's team and defeat Hitmonlee even with type disadvantage) twice! And holy s*** AS A CHIMCHAR
3. Superior speed
4. Overperform Pikachu during the late-Sinnoh Arc, who has defeat a Regice and tie against Latios
5. Blaze ability
6. He killed Ninjask with a Mach Punch which has 4x resistance while its energy was draining by Ninjask
7. Survived Empholeon's super effective Hydro Cannon attack AS A MONFERNO
8. Sweep half of Paul's team even taking massive damage and poisoned

And here's achievements which Charizard has yet to perform, excluding the last one due to half of Gary's team destroy by Charizard during Johto Arc.

Lol charizard did what infernape still hasn;t done yet, he was the first non legendary to beat a legendary in a one on one match something even before pikachu. And all those feats infernape did pails in comparison to that. And in JL charizard was still relatively new in training and not yet in peak condition. Charizard after his full training ie in unnova was his peak form and definitely far above inferanpe. And infernape only major victory over paul was his electivire. The rest were not even that strong.

 

[JonathanChone]

Objectively speaking it’s really hard to measure BW Charizard’s true strength though by feats dominating Volkner’s Luxray and Paul’s Motordrive Electivire > dominating Iris’s Dragonite. Of course special Blaze only activates when Infernape is low on health, so Charizard would still definitively be the overall better Pokémon.

I agree with you, even I think some of them should be rearrange.

1. Infernape in special Blaze state
2. Charizard (late BW)
3. Infernape (normal)
4. Charizard (BF)
5. Charizard (JL)
6. Charizard pre-training
7. Talonflame
8. Pignite
9. Litten (as of now)
10. Quilava
11.Torkoal

Personally I put normal Infernape on top of BF Charizard simply because he defeat by Brandon's Dusclops with only 3 Shadow Punches and Will-O-Wisp's additional burn effect. Infernape in normal mode has survived Aggron's Double edge, recoil damage of Flare Blitz, Toxic Spikes' poisoned effect, a long time Giga Drain and also several Thunder Punch from Electivire, and of course the long time Thunder attack before its used Blaze.

What Charizard suffered from Dusclops:
Shadow Punch (BP 60 + STAB) x3
Burn (-1/16 hp)
Total: >270

Infernape in Sinnoh League
Double Edge (BP 120)
Poisoned (-1/16 hp) x2
Giga Drain (BP 60, not very effective, 30)
Thunder Punch (75 + STAB) at least x2
Thunder (120 +STAB)
Recoil damage from Flare Blitz (damage unknown) x2
Total: >555

I agree Charizard is better choice than Infernape, but Better =/= Stronger

 

[I-am-the-peel]

Charizard > Infernape (With and Without Blaze) > Quilava > Pignite > Torkoal.

Until Infernape defeats a legendary pokemon, I'll always consider Charizard to be the stronger fire pokemon, and I'm not going to take Litten into consideration until the SM saga ends and we've seen enough battles to determine how strong it is.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Charizard > Infernape (With and Without Blaze) > Quilava > Pignite > Torkoal.

Until Infernape defeats a legendary pokemon, I'll always consider Charizard to be the stronger fire pokemon, and I'm not going to take Litten into consideration until the SM saga ends and we've seen enough battles to determine how strong it is.

And why didn't you take Talonflame into consideration?

Besides, how well Torkoal fought against Registeel surpasses anything Pignite and Quilava did.

 

[DarkMarshadow800]

Was it really though? i know it was a close fight with a legendary but he still lost, and he had a type advantage.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

1.Charizard (BW)
2.Infernape (Blaze)
3.Charizard (BF/Articuno)
4.Charizard (JL)
5.Infernape
6.Charizard (Pre Charicific Valley Training)
7.Torkoal (Oak Ranch Training)
8.Pignite
9.Quilava/Torkoal (HL)

Infernape is stronger than Charizard Pre Charicific Valley Training but not JL Charizard,Infernape relied too much on Blaze in crucial moments like against Volkner's Luxray/Paul's Electivire,it's debatable on whether or not it could sweep half of Gary's JL team since it's a big task but at the same time quite a few of Gary's pokemon were 1HKO'd,I know for sure it isn't defeating Harrison's Blaziken without the need of Blaze.

If JL Charizard was in the situation Infernape was in against Luxray it would have no problem winning and against Paul it would be poisoned but still be able to knock out 2 pokemon then draw to Electivire.

BF Charizard is easily defeating Luxray and sweeping half of Paul's team with Electivire included.

BW Charizard is the strongest because it was still receiving training at the Charicific Valley when Ash called it up towards the end of the series,it was absent from the DP series so that would make it twice as strong.

Iris's Dragonite is powerful in it's own right and yet it wasn't doing jack sh*t to Charizard,imagine what would have happened if N didn't end the match,we never got to see the full potential of current Charizard.

 

[DarkMarshadow800]

Was it really though? i know it was a close fight with a legendary but he still lost, and he had a type advantage.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Was it really though? i know it was a close fight with a legendary but he still lost, and he had a type advantage.

But it was a legendary Pokemon after all, and putting up a close fight with a legendary is something only Ash's top Tier Pokemon can do.

Then again, Torkoal got one-shotted by Tobias's Darkrai, but that fight still should be considered.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Charizard is his strongest imo.

 

[I-am-the-peel]

And why didn't you take Talonflame into consideration?

Besides, how well Torkoal fought against Registeel surpasses anything Pignite and Quilava did.

Didn't see it in the polls. Taking Talonflame into consideration;

Charizard > Infernape (With and Without Blaze) > Talonflame > Quilava > Pignite > Torkoal.

Think Talonflame is stronger than Quilava given that we only saw Quilava engage in one battle after evolution and that resulted in a draw whereas with Talonflame we've seen it win a lot more, but imo it showed much greater strength than Pignite and Torkoal for its previous W/L ratio as a Cyndaquil in Johto and knows much stronger moves like Eruption.

And sorry but for me Torkoal is one of Ash's weakest pokemon and I can't remember the last time it won a single battle.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Didn't see it in the polls. Taking Talonflame into consideration;

Charizard > Infernape (With and Without Blaze) > Talonflame > Quilava > Pignite > Torkoal.

Think Talonflame is stronger than Quilava given that we only saw Quilava engage in one battle after evolution and that resulted in a draw whereas with Talonflame we've seen it win a lot more, but imo it showed much greater strength than Pignite and Torkoal for its previous W/L ratio as a Cyndaquil in Johto and knows much stronger moves like Eruption.

And sorry but for me Torkoal is one of Ash's weakest pokemon and I can't remember the last time it won a single battle.

Well Pignite did beat Cameron's Hyderigon and Quilava(though very consistent) is yet to have a feat like that.

And regarding Torkoal, you're forgetting that it got a lot stronger in Oak lab(it was explicitly mentioned as well). After returning in BF, it gave a very close fight against a Legendary Pokemon.

 

[I-am-the-peel]

Well Pignite did beat Cameron's Hyderigon and Quilava(though very consistent) is yet to have a feat like that.

And regarding Torkoal, you're forgetting that it got a lot stronger in Oak lab(it was explicitly mentioned as well). After returning in BF, it gave a very close fight against a Legendary Pokemon.

Fair point on Cameron's Hydreigon, but it had been weakened by Oshawott and Boldore previously, so I'm not sure how much this feat counts for Pignite in terms of significance.

Also there is no criteria in which we can determine how much 'stronger' Torkoal got while he was in Oak's Lab, or how much 'stronger' that makes him to the rest of Ash's fire pokemon. By this logic, Kingler and Muk should be legendary pokemon-level powerhouses since they've spent so long in Oak's Lab but we know that they're not. To be honest, I wouldn't really say that its battle against Registeel was very close as Registeel showed no sign of being tired or weakened, and much of the reason why Torkoal was able to hold its own for so long in the battle was because it tanked a lot of hits and evaded a lot more with the Sandstorm-Heatwave-Jumping on top of Registeel combo.

 

[Genaller]

Fair point on Cameron's Hydreigon, but it had been weakened by Oshawott and Boldore previously, so I'm not sure how much this feat counts for Pignite in terms of significance.

Another point worth noting is that Pignite was able to tank a Hydrocannom from the fully evolved starter of a league competitor (even if its Cameron) and this was after battling Hydreigon and Ferrathorn, so in addition to power it also has pretty good durability.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

How exactly is Blaze Infernape gonna be stronger than Charizard when it barley managed to defeat Electivire? (Don't come at me with that Motor Drive BS)

After their clash between Thunder Punch and Flare Blitz Electivire was still standing,Charizard is clearly stronger than Electivire so he'd fare much better in that situation.

 

[SH65]

I would say...

Charizard>Infernape>Pignite>Quilava=>Torkoal

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Charizard (BW)=>Infernape (Blaze)>Charizard (BF)>Charizard (JL)>Infernape>Charizard (PCV)>Torkoal (ORC)=>Pignite>Quilava=Torkoal (HL)