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Ash's strongest Fire-type Pokemon

Ash's strongest Fire-type Pokemon

  • Pignite

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • Torkoal

    Votes: 3 3.1%
  • Infernape

    Votes: 22 22.9%
  • Charizard

    Votes: 68 70.8%
  • Quilava

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    96
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PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
There's nothing from DP that suggests Infernape with Blaze activated is stronger than Charizard especially a version from DP/BW that was still training at CV,you'd have a better case for them being equal if anything.Base form Charizard is clearly ahead of Infernape,it does not matter what it did at the SL Charizard swept half of Gary's team in OS and that was a weaker version of Charizard compared to the later ones.Infernape's best showing in it's blaze ability was defeating Paul's Electivire but it wasn't a one shot.Infernape got in some attacks then they both had a huge clashing of moves.

When the smoke cleared Electivire still managed to stay on it's feet until at the last second it finally collapsed and fainted.Charizard could have swept half of Paul's team along with defeating Electivire without relying on a power up or an ability because it went through the most training when were talking strictly about just Ash's pokemon and it's without question Ash's strongest pokemon in terms of base form.

1. He defeat 2 of gyms leader's pokemons 4 times in a row (with 3 being main pokemons)
Charizard can do the same thing but I'm assuming you're talking about previous forms too
3. Superior speed
Maybe but so what?
4. Overperform Pikachu during the late-Sinnoh Arc, who has defeat a Regice and tie against Latios
Charizard can do the same thing
5. Blaze ability
Charizard the original team sweeper plus won against a legendary without the reliance of an ability
6. He killed Ninjask with a Mach Punch which has 4x resistance while its energy was draining by Ninjask
Charizard can do the same thing and Paul's Ninjask wasn't all that strong just had insane speed.
8. Sweep half of Paul's team even taking massive damage and poisoned
Charizard the original team sweeper could do the same thing with or without an ability plus if it came back in DP it would have obviously been stronger than the Charizard from the JL.
 
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Lunanight

Well-Known Member
Charizard is unquestionably Ash's best Fire-type, and arguably his strongest Pokemon in general (not counting Ash-Greninja obviously). Infernape, as impressive as it was in DP, wasn't quite as strong as Charizard or Peakachu. Blaze would put it almost equal to DP Sceptile, or even actually equal to it at very best. Remember that even after activating Blaze, Paul's Electivire (who needed Motor Drive to keep up speed-wise) was never treated like Volkner's Luxray was. It took a Blaze-boosted Flamethower and then took a Mach Punch, then clashed its Thunder Punch with Flare Blitz and almost held its ground. BW Charizard is stronger than Paul's Motor Drive Electivire, and would have defeated Blaze Infernape in a 1v1 battle.

That said, I think people are missing a key point. Even though BW Charizard is clearly stronger than Infernape was in DP, and Charizard has a long string of accomplishments to its name, people seem to think that the likes of Harrison's Blaziken or Noland's Articuno are even in the same tier as Paul's Electivire (who is only slightly weaker than base Infernape). Yes, BW Charizard is stronger than Blaze Infernape, but its wins in OS and BF aren't significant for that answer. BW Charizard is stronger because given its rate of progress at the Charazific Valley, it should be stronger than than Infernape by BW.

Even without a Motor Drive boost, Paul's Electivire was much stronger than Harrison's Blaziken (and by proxy, stronger than Gary's 3 Pokemon), and stronger than any Pokemon belonging to a Frontier Brain that Ash battled except for Regirock. Articuno was clearly weaker than Paul's base Electivire. Regice/Registeel were also outclassed by base Electivire. Even during DP, either Regice or Registeel would lose to Electivire in a close battle given they were more experienced than in BF.

Charizard is easily tied with Peakachu as Ash's strongest base Pokemon, though I still give the edge to Charizard since its far more consistent. Even though I think Peakachu at full power is basically equal to Charizard or just narrowly better, overall Pikachu has lost several battles it should have won (Elekid, Snivy, and basically every single time it lost to a gym leader post-BF). The number of times Charizard lost battles that it had no excuse losing could probably be counted on one hand.

I'm well aware that BW Charizard is stronger than Infernape, but arguing that Charizard is stronger just because it beat three of Gary's Pokemon, or nearly beat Harrison's Blaziken, or beat Articuno... is pretty flawed since Paul's Electivire was stronger than any of those opponents. Would BW Charizard beat Paul's Aggron, Ninjask and Electivire all while poisoned? Yes it would, since BW Charizard is stronger than Blaze Infernape. Could Johto League or even BF Charizard beat those three? Of course not, since base Electivire alone would beat BF Charizard (let alone JL Charizard).

To put it into a larger perspective, I'd say that: BW Charizard > Blaze Infernape > Motor Drive Electivire > Infernape > Electivire > BF Charizard > Articuno > Harrison's Blaziken > JL Charizard > Gary's 3 Pokemon.


Saying that Charizard is stronger than Infernape because it beat X, Y, or Z whereas Infernape didn't makes no sense, given that Infernape is much stronger than any of those Pokemon that people bring up in relation to Charizard's big battles. Even without Blaze, it would beat Gary's three Pokemon, or Harrison's Blaziken, or Noland's Articuno. Infernape>BF Charizard. I would say even Brandon's Regice/Registeel were also weaker than Infernape, given they would have lost to BF Charizard anyway.

TL;DR: BW Charizard > Blaze Infernape > Base Infernape >>>>>>>>>>>> The other three Fire-types in any order you like.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Naming everything Charizard did in OS/AG only helps the case with it continuing to get training from CV because it showed how much of a beast Charizard was and that it was Ash's biggest powerhouse back then and adding in the fact that it still received training after AG means it's even stronger now.

-Charizard's spectacular feats from OS/AG
-Charicific Valley Training
-Absent from DP and most of BW/off-screen training/twice as strong
-Ash's strongest fire-type
-Ash's strongest base form pokemon

I don't buy the idea of Charizard being equal to Haxachu,the same Haxachu that only managed to tie with Tobias's Latios,there's no doubt in my mind that Charizard would have at least defeated that Latios and then lose to the next pokemon in Tobias's lineup.It would have also swept the rest of Cameron's team including his Lucario.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
This should be fun; I’ve always wanted to have a proper debate with you ^_^.

Charizard is unquestionably Ash's best Fire-type, and arguably his strongest Pokemon in general (not counting Ash-Greninja obviously).
Overall he is Ash’s best fire type since Infernape can only activate special Blaze when below 1/3rd health though Infernape while in Blaze specifically has superior battle viability. As for best base form pokémon; sure if we’re factoring in consistency, but the Peakachu that faced Alain and Lysandre would be definitively above him.

Infernape, as impressive as it was in DP, wasn't quite as strong as Charizard or Peakachu.
In terms of raw power neither Charizard nor DP Peakacbu could produce the explosion that special Blaze Infernape’s Flare Blitz produced primarily by themselves (The explosion Peaka produced next round was far more of an even joint effort with Latios). In Infernape vs Electivire while at first the explosion was caused jointly by Blaze boosted Flare Blitz and Double Thunder Punch, if you look closely you’ll see that there’s a split screen shot of Infernape and Electivire after which the screen focuses fully on Infernape and he lets out a roar after which the explosion further intensifies. At this point I can confidently say that the explosion was primarily being fueled by Infernape.

Blaze would put it almost equal to DP Sceptile, or even actually equal to it at very best.
Sceptile probably is a bit over Base Infernape, but he can’t really compete with Blaze Infernape. Sceptile gave Darkrai the equivalent of a lower high diff fight (where he loses if it were 1 vs 1). Darkrai should be around E4 Ace lvl based on it’s feats (any pokémon at that lvl can be expected to perform at least as well) though most likely not on the lvl of a pokémon like Flint’s Infernape. In all honesty I’m fairly certain that Infernape’s special Blaze offers an overall stat boost comparable to that of Mega Evolution. Against Luxray it went from getting dominated to doing the dominating and similarly with Electivire it went from a roughly even fight to Infernape dominating.

Remember that even after activating Blaze, Paul's Electivire (who needed Motor Drive to keep up speed-wise) was never treated like Volkner's Luxray was. It took a Blaze-boosted Flamethower and then took a Mach Punch, then clashed its Thunder Punch with Flare Blitz and almost held its ground.
Yeah no. Thunder got outright overpowered by Flamethrower, Electivire did not get a single hit in after special Blaze activated, and finally as explained above, that explosion by the end was primarily a result of Infernape power. There’s no way around the claim that Blaze Infernape is a decisively superior pokémon to Motordrive Electivire.

Matter of fact I think Blaze Infernape and Motordrive Electivire at that point were the respective peaks of Ash and Paul which ties things quite nicely from a narrative standpoint (the climax of the final clash of these 2 trainers showcased them at their absolute best as of then).

BW Charizard is stronger than Paul's Motor Drive Electivire, and would have defeated Blaze Infernape in a 1v1 battle.
I’m not sure if Charizard could’ve beaten Electivire under the same constraints Infernape did (Poisoned, significantly lower health and Electivire has Motordrive active). I’m leaning more towards a draw quite frankly. Charizard in BW showed he was substantially better than Iris’s Dragonite, but at the same time the difference wasn’t astronomical since they did have 3 even move clashes, Dragonite wasn’t OHKed and N stated that both pokémon have come to respect each other. Volkner’s Luxray and especially Paul’s Electivire are superior pokémon to Iris’s Dragonite,

That said, I think people are missing a key point. Even though BW Charizard is clearly stronger than Infernape was in DP, and Charizard has a long string of accomplishments to its name, people seem to think that the likes of Harrison's Blaziken or Noland's Articuno are even in the same tier as Paul's Electivire (who is only slightly weaker than base Infernape). Yes, BW Charizard is stronger than Blaze Infernape, but its wins in OS and BF aren't significant for that answer. BW Charizard is stronger because given its rate of progress at the Charazific Valley, it should be stronger than than Infernape by BW.
Disagree with your final conclusion, but I do agree that even if Charizard were better, it wouldn’t be because of his pre-DP feats. To give you an idea of what I think concerning Zard’s progression, it goes A+ (Johto League) -> S- (Battle Frontier) -> S (around here as of Sinnoh League) -> S+ (Late BW) whereas for Infernape as of the Sinnoh League it’s S- (Base) -> Z- (Blaze) meaning about S overall.

Even without a Motor Drive boost, Paul's Electivire was much stronger than Harrison's Blaziken (and by proxy, stronger than Gary's 3 Pokemon), and stronger than any Pokemon belonging to a Frontier Brain that Ash battled except for Regirock. Articuno was clearly weaker than Paul's base Electivire. Regice/Registeel were also outclassed by base Electivire. Even during DP, either Regice or Registeel would lose to Electivire in a close battle given they were more experienced than in BF.
I wouldn’t say ‘much’ stronger than Harrison’s Blaziken, but yeah stronger enough to the point where there shouldn’t be much room for discussion as to who’s better.

Charizard is easily tied with Peakachu as Ash's strongest base Pokemon, though I still give the edge to Charizard since its far more consistent. Even though I think Peakachu at full power is basically equal to Charizard or just narrowly better, overall Pikachu has lost several battles it should have won (Elekid, Snivy, and basically every single time it lost to a gym leader post-BF). The number of times Charizard lost battles that it had no excuse losing could probably be counted on one hand.
If we’re factoring in consistency, then sure Pikachu would be worse than a lot of Ash’s pokemon. At his peak though he probably is definitively Ash’s best base form pokémon especially the version that fought Alain (based on scaling from Alain’s Base Zard which is most likely stronger than Ash’s).

To put it into a larger perspective, I'd say that: BW Charizard > Blaze Infernape > Motor Drive Electivire > Infernape > Electivire > BF Charizard > Articuno > Harrison's Blaziken > JL Charizard > Gary's 3 Pokemon.

Blaze Infernape > BW Charizard > Overall Infernape >= Motordrive Electivire > Base Infernape >= Base Electivire >= BF Charizard ~ Articuno > Harrison’s Blaziken ~ JL Charizard > Gary’s 3 Pokémon.
 
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mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!



Blaze Infernape > BW Charizard > Overall Infernape >= Motordrive Electivire > Base Infernape >= Base Electivire >= BF Charizard ~ Articuno > Harrison’s Blaziken ~ JL Charizard > Gary’s 3 Pokémon.
Has Base Electrivire really shown to be above BF Zard? At best I'd say Base Electrivire~BF Zard, comparing them to SL non-peak Pikachu (who I'd say is around the same strength as when he fought Anabel's Espeon)
 

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
Voted for Infernape, mainly because Ash's Charizard hasn't made an explosion on the level of Infernape's final Flare Blitz vs Electivire. Logically though, BW!Charizard should be far stronger than Infernape, especially when you consider that Charizard hasn't used its own ability yet. In addition, even in Unova Charizard didn't get to go all out against Dragonite.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Has Base Electrivire really shown to be above BF Zard? At best I'd say Base Electrivire~BF Zard, comparing them to SL non-peak Pikachu (who I'd say is around the same strength as when he fought Anabel's Espeon)
Tbf that was mainly me compromising with Lunalight. They’re both in S- and beyond that I don’t really have an opinion on who’s better 1 way or the other, so yeah ~ would be more accurate.
 
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