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Ash's Strongest Pokemon EVER

Ash's Strongest

  • Charizard

    Votes: 55 47.4%

  • Snorlax

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Heracross

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Infernape

    Votes: 9 7.8%

  • Kingler

    Votes: 4 3.4%

  • Mijumaru

    Votes: 12 10.3%

  • Pikachu

    Votes: 21 18.1%

  • Sceptile

    Votes: 8 6.9%

  • Krookodile

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 2.6%
  • Total voters
    116
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diakyu

diakyu

Well-Known Member
TheNewGuy said:
No other Pokemon in Ash's arsenal would be put on that kind of pedestal.
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Oh man, pikachu has been on that pedestal multiple times.

Let me put it in perspective for you guys-
Charizard gets frozen= fails the fight instantly
Pikachu gets frozen= instantly breaks out and then wins against a legendary

It makes no sense for Charizard to be his best. Sure Charizard is definitely one of his strongest, but THE strongest? No way.

But who cares? Oshawott the king beats both of them.

Edit: Granted, Charizard did fail to break the ice before he started his intense training at the valley, but he's a fire type. No excuse.
 
TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
I don't even think Pikachu would.

Pikachu is powerful but in a different way. Pikachu is an underdog that fights from below. His strength is "inside", it isn't as open and obvious as Charizard. Pikachu would be celebrated, but not given the outright worship that Charizard got in that episode. Charizard is, openly and obviously, a warrior. A king. They make that very clear. Pikachu's greatest victories are insane miracles of an underdog overcoming the odds. Charizard's greatest victories are hard-fought battles between two warriors.

Besides, I think Pikachu's power fluctuates too often. Pikachu, at his absolute PEAK, is maybe slightly stronger than Charizard, but even that is hardly set in stone. But Charizard offers a level of consistent strength that no other Pokemon in the series matches.

Like, the writers would NEVER have Charizard lose to Panpour, like Pikachu did earlier in this series. They would never have Charizard tie with an Elekid after beating Regice. Charizard's key losses are only highlighted because of how rare they are. Blaziken is one, which I would say is Zard's only absolutely legit loss since he became the all-powerful beast we know today. Dusclops is another, but that was very cleverly written; it was made clear that it was completely Ash's fault. Besides, Charizard has two - two! - high profile losses. I mean, should I even list Pikachu's?

I think bringing up Zard being frozen by Poliwrath is a bit unfair - clearly that Charizard was not the strongest. But Charizard has trained and grown a lot since then. That younger, more inexperienced Charizard, hypothetically, couldn't beat Gary's Blastoise and Golem.

Now, I can see what you're thinking. Charizard is allowed a weak performance against Poliwrath but Pikachu isn't allowed one against Elekid (etc)? Well, the difference is the unreliable, constantly fluctuating nature of Pikachu's power. Pikachu has been written in such a way that he can lose or win basically any match and people won't be surprised, barring some extreme circumstances. Like, everyone was irritated when Pikachu lost to Cress, but I don't think they were particularly surprised. It's standard Pikachu fare at this point. But the writers would never, ever, have Charizard lose in that situation. As I said, the Charizard that was frozen by Poliwrath is not the same one that just had an episode dedicated to how amazing he is.

And that's the difference, I think. Charizard is Ash's trump card, his strength is protected by the writers. Pikachu is in a position where it pulls off amazing, miracle wins, but also takes some heavy losses. I don't think I can in good conscience say that Pikachu is the stronger Pokemon.
 
diakyu

diakyu

Well-Known Member
The fact that Pikachu's power fluctuates means nothing lol. We know that at times Pikachu is stronger than Charizard. End of story.

And Pikachu is forced to be weak at times. If Charizard had stayed on Ash's team as long Pikachu has, he would of had some very embarrassing loses by know, and Dusclops was bad enough.

Edit: Let me try this. Charizard has never experienced a hard reset like Pikachu has, so he comes off as stronger. But it's a all just kind of a illusion. Pikachu has been weakened because Ash would just wipe the floor if he used Pikachu at max potential. That would be a pretty boring thing to watch. Charizard always seems strong because there is never a need to weaken him.

There is a rule to judging Charizard and Pikachu together. When comparing them, you always compare regular charizard and Pikachu at his full potential (usually at the end of each saga). Pikachu is stronger at the end of each saga. Just look at the fight against Tobias and Brandon.

Edit 2: Wait, isn't picking the strongest an opinion? I mean, there is no way to know which is actually it since there are so many factors.
 
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L

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
diakyu said:
The fact that Pikachu's power fluctuates means nothing lol. We know that at times Pikachu is stronger than Charizard. End of story.
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I agree. And I don't get why some people are holding Pikachu's fluctuating power level against him; I mean I've already pointed out that no Pokemon is perfect and that the Pokemon that is currently winning this rigged poll has also been inconsistent in battle. Even on his worst day I at least respect Pikachu for putting up a good battle and always being on hand in times of crisis. Not many Pokemon could continuously provide entertainment, but Pikachu sure knows how to deliver imo.
 
S

sandy ketchum

Well-Known Member
thank god pikachu is ahead of oshawatt at the moment.
 
M

Mew2

Team Rocket's Enemy
diakyu said:
The fact that Pikachu's power fluctuates means nothing lol. We know that at times Pikachu is stronger than Charizard. End of story.
Click to expand...

Actually, Pikachu's inconsistency is everything. He is not consistently Ash's strongest Pokémon compared to Charizard. Charizard has beaten a legendary of his own. And if you really look at it and average things out, Pikachu has had more bad losses that great wins. For great wins/ties, he has Regice (victory) and Latios (tie after Latios fought two other Pokémon). However, for bad losses/ties, he has Trip's beginner Snivy, Panpour (both losses), and the tie against Elekid. Heck, before tying against Elekid, Pikachu lost to Gary's Electivire, the same Gary who had been out of practice battling for a time since he was a researcher, though I don't count that as a bad loss. Also remember that Charizard's only "bad" loss was not due to his own strength or lack thereof, but due to Ash's idiocy. His only noticeable loss since his training at the Charicific Valley began that was not influenced by Ash being stupid was Blaziken's pyrrhic victory over him. As for Charizard's greatest wins, he defeated Articuno, a Legendary Pokémon. Also against Gary, he beat three of Gary's Pokémon, two of who had a type advantage against him, with Golem having a severe type advantage against him. That is why Charizard is seen as Ash's strongest Pokémon.
 
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A

Ash&Pikachu-Fan

Pika-Speed
I'm choosing Pikachu, 'cause he seems to be the best choice at times, I always thought all of Ash's Pokemon should be really strong but Pikachu will always be go to kind of Pokemon.
 
K

Ke$ha

Banned
Mew2 said:
Actually, Pikachu's inconsistency is everything. He is not consistently Ash's strongest Pokémon compared to Charizard. Charizard has beaten a legendary of his own. And if you really look at it and average things out, Pikachu has had more bad losses that great wins. For great wins/ties, he has Regice (victory) and Latios (tie after Latios fought two other Pokémon). However, for bad losses/ties, he has Trip's beginner Snivy, Panpour (both losses), and the tie against Elekid. Heck, before tying against Elekid, Pikachu lost to Gary's Electivire, the same Gary who had been out of practice battling for a time since he was a researcher, though I don't count that as a bad loss. Also remember that Charizard's only "bad" loss was not due to his own strength or lack thereof, but due to Ash's idiocy. His only noticeable loss since his training at the Charicific Valley began that was not influenced by Ash being stupid was Blaziken's pyrrhic victory over him. As for Charizard's greatest wins, he defeated Articuno, a Legendary Pokémon. Also against Gary, he beat three of Gary's Pokémon, two of who had a type advantage against him, with Golem having a severe type advantage against him. That is why Charizard is seen as Ash's strongest Pokémon.
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I kinda noticed that when ever Charizard loses Ash gets blamed but when other Pokemon of his lose its their fault what is that about?? I think Charizard messes up alot to even tho he trains like crazy he still isnt the best battler so may be he should be blamed for his flaws. If other Pokemon are responsible for losing then Charizard should be to cuz thats only fair.

I voted for Pikachu cuz even tho his level drops a lot he still has more experience than any Pokemon of Ashs and that makes him automatically the strongest I think :)
 
diakyu

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Mew2 said:
Actually, Pikachu's inconsistency is everything.
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But this thread isn't about who is Ash's most consistently strong Pokemon. It's about which is his strongest. That's Pikachu.

Unless the correct answer is actually his strongest is Charizard but on occasion Pikachu blows him out of the water.

Oh, and Charizard is just as much to blame for his losses as Ash is. The trainer is only one half of a whole.
 
M

Mew2

Team Rocket's Enemy
Ke$ha said:
I kinda noticed that when ever Charizard loses Ash gets blamed but when other Pokemon of his lose its their fault what is that about??
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Because that is, indeed, the reason why Charizard lost to Brandon's Dusclops. There is no other way around that. It's shown on screen. They were fighting evenly until Ash made that glaring and idiotic mistake. That and his battle against Blaziken were his only losses since returning from the Charicific Valley. Pikachu, on the other hand, has lost many times, though I will admit that he also has a larger body of work. Still, that does not negate that Pikachu's bad outings are far worse than Charizard's bad outings, particularly if you compare post-Charicific Valley Charizard. And remember that Charizard was already pretty strong before hand. In addition, freezing was mentioned in previous posts. Do remember that in Generation 1, the Frozen condition was a defeat in all but name since Pokémon never thawed. That was not the case in later generations and the animé represented that. Pikachu's bad losses and ties, on the other hand, are not because Ash called for a Fighting-type move against as Ghost-type Pokémon when he should already know the outcome. They are because Pikachu's power is at best inconsistent. And remember, Pikachu's terrible showings outnumber his good showings. You're more likely to get the Pikachu that lost to Trip's beginner Snivy than the Pikachu that beat Regice and tied with Latios. On the other hand, Charizard's good showings outnumber his bad showings. And in his worst showing, there is no doubt that trainer error played a significant role in his loss there.
 
Joltik-Kid

Joltik-Kid

Careful? Where's the fun in that?
Pepsi_Plunge said:
Tied now but its a shame Charizard is somehow winning isn't it?
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I don't find it too surprising, even to this day it's the only Pokemon people can name correctly who haven't once even played, watched, or heard of Pokemon. I wasn't kidding when I said Charizard was the most overrated, he even appeared in Gameinformers top 10 dragons despite not being an "official" dragon itself
 
TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
diakyu said:
The fact that Pikachu's power fluctuates means nothing lol. We know that at times Pikachu is stronger than Charizard. End of story.

And Pikachu is forced to be weak at times. If Charizard had stayed on Ash's team as long Pikachu has, he would of had some very embarrassing loses by know, and Dusclops was bad enough.

Edit: Let me try this. Charizard has never experienced a hard reset like Pikachu has, so he comes off as stronger. But it's a all just kind of a illusion. Pikachu has been weakened because Ash would just wipe the floor if he used Pikachu at max potential. That would be a pretty boring thing to watch. Charizard always seems strong because there is never a need to weaken him.

There is a rule to judging Charizard and Pikachu together. When comparing them, you always compare regular charizard and Pikachu at his full potential (usually at the end of each saga). Pikachu is stronger at the end of each saga. Just look at the fight against Tobias and Brandon.

Edit 2: Wait, isn't picking the strongest an opinion? I mean, there is no way to know which is actually it since there are so many factors.
Click to expand...

You're making excuses. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Pikachu having "hard resets" is not some get out of jail free card. Pikachu's "hard resets" make him weaker. You cannot ignore them or use them as a reason that Pikachu is actually stronger. Using Pikachu's writing as an excuse is just as bad. Yes, if Pikachu had levelled evenly he would wipe the floor with anything, but - and I'm going to put this in italics so it sinks in - the writers are the gods of this universe. They choose to make Pikachu weaker to make battles closer and more interesting. And since they dictate what happens, which Pokemon is strong and which is weak, Pikachu is weak. You don't get to say "Pikachu's only weak because of writing necessity!" because it's not a necessity. Pikachu's weakness, his losses to Panpour, are as much a part of his character as his tie with Latios. Because the writers dictate that to be so. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

It also speaks volumes that people constantly come back to Dusclops and Blaziken - two losses. Pikachu has so many embarrassing losses that people can't even remember the worst one anymore!
 
Vernikova

Vernikova

Champion
On second thought, I'm not going to get involved with this since it doesn't matter in the end.

Pikachu is his strongest Pokemon. Charizard is second.
 
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dirkac

dirkac

I smash your Boxes.
Well, I voted Other becauseq I believe Glalie is the strongest of them all.

I mean, seriously, it was strong in all it's battles, because it hadn't gotten a humiliating loss since it wasn't used in the BF or Sinnoh.
 
S

Scolipedeluv

Squad member Ricchan
hmm tough to say I think I would say sceptile because out of Pikachu, charizard and Sceptile, Sceptile took out the Highest ranked legendary.
 
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