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Ash's strongest Pokemon

Strongest (without Pikachu)


  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
As of the Moltres episode, Infernapes bubble thats its one of the strongest has burst, since Talonflame has been confirmed to be stronger now (Hit a Mega, didn't go down without taking a mon with it, and hit a Moltres, unlike Infernape, who needed to be carried by Blastoise).
Pretty sure that the Moltres appeared on Journeys is stronger than the Moltres that appeared on XY.
 

Kuzehiko

That moment I found a lifetime treasure
Conisdering the XY Moltres came straight out of lava, pretty sure that one is stronger.
Hmm doubt it.
Journeys Moltres defeated Blastoise and Infernape and it took Haxachu and Electivire to make it leave. It could also use Burn Up.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
The only problem with Greninja (other than its Ending) is the fact that Base Greninja has absolute no feats, almost everything was Ash-Greninja, showing how necessary was this transformation to fight most of its opponents.
Defeating Alain's MCX was its pivotal moment tho, being built up and then falling short. Defeating Sawyer isn't enough esp when Sceptile was never a major threat to greninja
Greninja only survives in hype but when it comes to its arc it's so unsatisfactory for me and there isn't a pivotal end point for me like the other aces had. Not to mention it didn't really do much in TF arc and then was released in the most contrived way. It feels like it was only there to be cool, which it accomplished no doubt but writing wise it sucked
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
The only problem with Greninja (other than its Ending) is the fact that Base Greninja has absolute no feats, almost everything was Ash-Greninja, showing how necessary was this transformation to fight most of its opponents.

I blame that on over excessive marketing who wanted to show more AG, it was similar with alain's charizar as well whose feats were mostly i its ME form.

Defeating Alain's MCX was its pivotal moment tho, being built up and then falling short. Defeating Sawyer isn't enough esp when Sceptile was never a major threat to greninja
Greninja only survives in hype but when it comes to its arc it's so unsatisfactory for me and there isn't a pivotal end point for me like the other aces had. Not to mention it didn't really do much in TF arc and then was released in the most contrived way. It feels like it was only there to be cool, which it accomplished no doubt but writing wise it sucked

Well you can say that status quo for writers was more important than storyline progression, i always felt had ash met alian in semis he would have won the match.

As for talonflame, it is underrated i think people dont give it much credit considering his overuse i gyms where it was impressive, it is easily his second most powerful flying type after swellow.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
As for talonflame, it is underrated i think people dont give it much credit considering his overuse i gyms where it was impressive, it is easily his second most powerful flying type after swellow.
I think is Hawlucha the one that is underrated, if I remember correctly he has as many fights as Talonflame and as many wins, and the opponents are still on a similar level
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
I think is Hawlucha the one that is underrated, if I remember correctly he has as many fights as Talonflame and as many wins, and the opponents are still on a similar level

Hawlucha is definitely underrated and so is talonflame, it is definitely stronger than staraptor and rowlet. Among his other underrated pokemon are galarian sirfetchd. Its personality and nature makes him interesting.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Defeating Alain's MCX was its pivotal moment tho, being built up and then falling short. Defeating Sawyer isn't enough esp when Sceptile was never a major threat to greninja
Greninja only survives in hype but when it comes to its arc it's so unsatisfactory for me and there isn't a pivotal end point for me like the other aces had. Not to mention it didn't really do much in TF arc and then was released in the most contrived way. It feels like it was only there to be cool, which it accomplished no doubt but writing wise it sucked
Yeah I wasn't really on the AshGreninja hype train, especially since they drained Greninja of all the personality and battle quirks it had as a Froakie. It's a shame really, the XY team started off promising, they had good quirks and worked well in double battles, things toppled when it turned into 'The Greninja Show'.

Out of curiosity, where do other Pokemon power up modes apply in this, such as Lycanroc's 'red eye' mode?
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Yeah I wasn't really on the AshGreninja hype train, especially since they drained Greninja of all the personality and battle quirks it had as a Froakie. It's a shame really, the XY team started off promising, they had good quirks and worked well in double battles, things toppled when it turned into 'The Greninja Show'.

Out of curiosity, where do other Pokemon power up modes apply in this, such as Lycanroc's 'red eye' mode?
Lycanroc mastered it's red eyes, it never was really a powerup move like ash greninja was but more of a "berserk" mode if you will, and it's based on game lore. Plus, Lycanroc has the pivotal moment of beating it's rival and winning Ash the league while consistently performing well for him on the side too with the second and third grand trials.
Charizard never had powerups but as the quirk of the "strongest" man did it have multiple pivotal moments, ending Ash and Gary's rivalry plus being the first to defeat a legendary.
Sceptile was never treated as an ace in its series, tbh it got a bad showcase as an ace compared to greninja, and it also didn't have powerups but it had a pivotal moment with Darkrai
And we all know the story with Blaze Infernape <3
It's just either all the rest won their built up rivalries or had pivotal standout moments. Was greninja cool and essential in defeating Wulfric and Sawyer? Yes, but it's main buildup battle it lost to Alain. Alain was supposed to be a Gary, not a Harrison. It did nothing in TF arc either to warrant it's "role" as such plus it's backstory/lore is pretty much lame. And then it got released like that....
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I think a recurrent problem is that the more an 'ace' is pushed, the more 'smoke and mirrors' seem to take play over actual substance, and trying to make this Pokemon look invincible over giving it genuine credentials. Sure they might not be outwardly fallible like some others but they don't feel as fleshed out in their accomplishments either (eg. Greninja would never struggle against Kiawe's Charizard or Kukui's Braviary for its last matches, but ultimately Lycanroc was the one who beat its rival and won the league, Lycanroc gets challenged more but actually overcomes a lot of it).

Also at times it has to be remembered, there's no 'I' in team. Sometimes the best Pokemon are versatile team players and are as good bringing out the best out of their teammates rather than just stealing the show (a shame double battles just stopped being a thing after Greninja evolved, since it was arguably a good factor for the Kalos lot, there was only a couple early double battles in SM as well, though the tag team episode was brilliant XD).
 
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Lycanroc mastered it's red eyes, it never was really a powerup move like ash greninja was but more of a "berserk" mode if you will, and it's based on game lore. Plus, Lycanroc has the pivotal moment of beating it's rival and winning Ash the league while consistently performing well for him on the side too with the second and third grand trials.
Charizard never had powerups but as the quirk of the "strongest" man did it have multiple pivotal moments, ending Ash and Gary's rivalry plus being the first to defeat a legendary.
Sceptile was never treated as an ace in its series, tbh it got a bad showcase as an ace compared to greninja, and it also didn't have powerups but it had a pivotal moment with Darkrai
And we all know the story with Blaze Infernape <3
It's just either all the rest won their built up rivalries or had pivotal standout moments. Was greninja cool and essential in defeating Wulfric and Sawyer? Yes, but it's main buildup battle it lost to Alain. Alain was supposed to be a Gary, not a Harrison. It did nothing in TF arc either to warrant it's "role" as such plus it's backstory/lore is pretty much lame. And then it got released like that....
Thank you. This is what I’ve been saying. Also Alain is more like a Tobias.
 

TMTMGTM

New Member
A-G easily. Charizard might have a case (purely by hype) but it's lacking in feats.
Charizard lacks feat?
Lets look at the feats Shall we
-Beat blaine's magmar while still in its disobedient stage
- beat drake's electabuzz and put up a great fight against his undefeated dragonite softening it up so pikachu could finish it off
And both of these were before his training at the charicific valley
Midway through training:
- went toe to toe with an entei(a legendary) and held its own against it despite it being an unwinnable battle
- swept half of gary's team(while being faced with a type disadvantage for two of his pokemon)
- beat an articuno(another legendary) that was commanded by a frontier brain
After training in BW :
-Was crushing iris's dragonite.
So please tell me how he lacks feats to make a case for the strongest pokemon?
I agree A-G is stronger but Charizard is ash's strongest pokemon in base form( even stronger than greninja)
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Charizard lacks feat?
Lets look at the feats Shall we
-Beat blaine's magmar while still in its disobedient stage
- beat drake's electabuzz and put up a great fight against his undefeated dragonite softening it up so pikachu could finish it off
And both of these were before his training at the charicific valley
Midway through training:
- went toe to toe with an entei(a legendary) and held its own against it despite it being an unwinnable battle
- swept half of gary's team(while being faced with a type disadvantage for two of his pokemon)
- beat an articuno(another legendary) that was commanded by a frontier brain
After training in BW :
-Was crushing iris's dragonite.
So please tell me how he lacks feats to make a case for the strongest pokemon?
I agree A-G is stronger but Charizard is ash's strongest pokemon in base form( even stronger than greninja)

Lets not forget his charizard can also gigatamax and has a gigatamax watch or whatever it is called. Easily would become his strongest pokemon ever.
 

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
Charizard lacks feat?
Lets look at the feats Shall we
-Beat blaine's magmar while still in its disobedient stage
- beat drake's electabuzz and put up a great fight against his undefeated dragonite softening it up so pikachu could finish it off
And both of these were before his training at the charicific valley
Midway through training:
- swept half of gary's team(while being faced with a type disadvantage for two of his pokemon)
Blaine, Drake, and Gary were good performances, but Ash has grown significantly stronger since then, and the trainers he's fought have been a lot stronger too. Paul could 2v6 OI Drake, and Alain would completely sweep both OI Drake and JL Gary with just MCX.
- beat an articuno(another legendary) that was commanded by a frontier brain
And Articuno was Charizard's last solid feat before jobbing to Dusclops.
After training in BW :
-Was crushing iris's dragonite.
Not as great as a feat because the battle didn't finish, and because Dragonite could still stand even after those hits.
So please tell me how he lacks feats to make a case for the strongest pokemon?
I should've worded it better. Charizard's feats are really good, but newer Pokemon Ash has caught have matched or surpassed them. Infernape swept half the team of trainer significantly stronger than JL Gary, Sceptile beat a legendary stronger than Articuno, Pikachu has beaten 4 (or 3.5) legendaries, and Greninja has traded blows with Champion's ace level Pokemon.
Charizard is ash's strongest pokemon in base form( even stronger than greninja)
Logically, it would make sense that Ash's first powerhouse should be his strongest, especially as it kept training. We haven't been shown Charizard's full power yet, and I hope we get to see it soon.
 

TMTMGTM

New Member
Lets not forget his charizard can also gigatamax and has a gigatamax watch or whatever it is called. Easily would become his strongest pokemon ever.
Yeah and he can mega evolve
Blaine, Drake, and Gary were good performances, but Ash has grown significantly stronger since then, and the trainers he's fought have been a lot stronger too. Paul could 2v6 OI Drake, and Alain would completely sweep both OI Drake and JL Gary with just MCX.
Ash has gotten better as a trainer I agree. Shouldn't that make these feats even more impressive for charizard since ash wasn't as good as a trainer back then and had to rely more on his pokemon's strength to carry him? Also yeah the trainers he's faced have been stronger But ash's charizard has also gotten alot stronger as well thanks to its training nothing saying that it can't match ash currently. Just because ash has gotten stronger and faced stronger opponents shouldn't take away from charizards feats
And Articuno was Charizard's last solid feat before jobbing to Dusclops.
Dusclops was kind of embarassing for it but its also ash's fault for calling seismic toss on a ghost type. Also Brandon is a super strong trainer. ANd also yeah articuno was the last Major feat of charizard but. i blame the writers for that because they barely gave him anything to do except for battling iris's dragonite.
Not as great as a feat because the battle didn't finish, and because Dragonite could still stand even after those hits.
Still a great feat given that charizard was dominating dragonite given that it was severely injured while charizard was unscathed. Had the battle been allowed to continue I have no doubt charizard would have won,fairly easily. (Also I'm pretty sure that the only pokemon that has been able to beat that dragonite up until this point was ash's krookadile, and that was in dragonites disobedience stage)
I should've worded it better. Charizard's feats are really good, but newer Pokemon Ash has caught have matched or surpassed them. Infernape swept half the team of trainer significantly stronger than JL Gary, Sceptile beat a legendary stronger than Articuno, Pikachu has beaten 4 (or 3.5) legendaries, and Greninja has traded blows with Champion's ace level Pokemon.
You listed 4 different pokemon who have all only matched one of charizards feats. None of them have surpassed all of them(Except maybe for greninja although it hasn't swept half a team it probably could) Infernape swept half of pauls team and I agree Paul is the better trainer and that feat is slightly stronger than charizards but the legendary that it did face,it didn't do to well against. Sceptile beat a legendary stronger than articuno , it had a little help from gible. Still an impressive feat but its really the only super impressive feat of sceptile(he did a couple of other key wins but it doesn't really compare to charizards feats) also Pikachu has beaten 3.5 legendaries thats true but he's also had some pretty embarassing losses especially after battling those legendaries.
Beats Regice<- draws with elekid at the beginning of DP
Draws with Latios <-loses to a snivy and panpour
Granted alola didn't do that although he had a little help with gladion's silvally from melmetal
Beating tapu koko however is definitely the most impressive feat from any of ash's mons.
However pikachu's inconsistency doesn't really put him above some of his other aces.
Logically, it would make sense that Ash's first powerhouse should be his strongest, especially as it kept training. We haven't been shown Charizard's full power yet, and I hope we get to see it soon.
Yeah I want to see charizard at full power as well
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
Lycanroc mastered it's red eyes, it never was really a powerup move like ash greninja was but more of a "berserk" mode if you will, and it's based on game lore. Plus, Lycanroc has the pivotal moment of beating it's rival and winning Ash the league while consistently performing well for him on the side too with the second and third grand trials.
Charizard never had powerups but as the quirk of the "strongest" man did it have multiple pivotal moments, ending Ash and Gary's rivalry plus being the first to defeat a legendary.
Sceptile was never treated as an ace in its series, tbh it got a bad showcase as an ace compared to greninja, and it also didn't have powerups but it had a pivotal moment with Darkrai
And we all know the story with Blaze Infernape <3
It's just either all the rest won their built up rivalries or had pivotal standout moments. Was greninja cool and essential in defeating Wulfric and Sawyer? Yes, but it's main buildup battle it lost to Alain. Alain was supposed to be a Gary, not a Harrison. It did nothing in TF arc either to warrant it's "role" as such plus it's backstory/lore is pretty much lame. And then it got released like that....

Problem is Greninja wasn't the ace either. That was Talonflame (Fought in every gym except one, didn't go down in any gym or league match without taking at least another Pokemon out, landed a hit on both a legendary and a Mega while being a Fletchinder. While the Legendary bit wasn't pivotal in the gym quest, the rest was, compare this to base Greninja's wins/feats and you can come to only one conclusion - Talonflame was the ace, since it had more impact on the gym and league run than any other Kalos Pokemon of Ash -aside from Greninja in the league, but it couldn't do so without a power-up).
 
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