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Ash's Torterra

MattySadler

Well-Known Member
I'm not into using some other person's self-created "tier system" to rank Pokemon, I'm going purely by my own opinion and what I've seen...

I like Torterra a lot. Since I got Pokemon Blue in 1998/9 and selected Bulbasaur as my starter, I've probably had a slight Grass-type bias. I think people in this thread have already spoken a lot of sense mentioning how it is such an "un-Ash like" Pokemon, and I think that might be a part of the reason I like it. It may also be part of the reason it hasn't done so well competitively though.

Unfortunately Torterra does not have an impressive body count. In fact, unless you count a victory against Team Rocket (which I doubt many people count), it has a body count of 0, and this clearly undermines Torettas as a character and works against it.

You never know though, in this never ending repetitive anime, there may come a time when Torterra is able to return and pick up a win. I'd like that a lot.

It is nice to see Torterra has fans.
 
Torterra was destined to lose all of his battles:

Bertha: A fight against an E4 is a guaranteed loss. In his defense, Torterra did put up quite a nice fight.

Volkner: This battle was to showcase Infernape's immense new power. Torterra should've gotten at least 1 KO though.

Paul: This battle was used to showcase Infernape's power... yet again. Gliscor, Buizel, and Pikachu got some time to shine as well, but Torterra unfortunately got shafted along with Staraptor.

Agreed. I would've loved to see Torterra redeem itself for the defeats it had to go through, but the writers decided to give that one to Goku MkII as well -_-
I thought Gliscor got the KO on Drapion?
 

bboyrei

New Member
The only change I would have made in the battle against Paul was make Torterra defeat Aggron, since Gliscor needed a win anyway. Infernape didn't need another one.
 

Crimson Red

Well-Known Member
The only change I would have made in the battle against Paul was make Torterra defeat Aggron, since Gliscor needed a win anyway. Infernape didn't need another one.
Honestly if I were Ash I would of used Torterra in my battle against Tobias
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
Honestly if I were Ash I would of used Torterra in my battle against Tobias
Would Torterra even have been in any condition to face Tobias? Only reason I feel Pikachu was even in contention to be picked after the Paul battle was because he was the only one who avoided being poisoned, he took less of a beating compared to others and he's used to the fast pace with little time for recovery from the Leagues. Torterra didn't have those luxuries and while a fully fit Torterra would make a good case to be used, Torterra-post Paul just needed a rest.
 

Crimson Red

Well-Known Member
Would Torterra even have been in any condition to face Tobias? Only reason I feel Pikachu was even in contention to be picked after the Paul battle was because he was the only one who avoided being poisoned, he took less of a beating compared to others and he's used to the fast pace with little time for recovery from the Leagues. Torterra didn't have those luxuries and while a fully fit Torterra would make a good case to be used, Torterra-post Paul just needed a rest.
That's a problem I have with DP. If the Hoenn Pokemon were able to compete in all there battles, why couldn't he of used better Pokemon against Tobias? Did Brock finally get busy with Nurse Joy or what?
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
That's a problem I have with DP. If the Hoenn Pokemon were able to compete in all there battles, why couldn't he of used better Pokemon against Tobias? Did Brock finally get busy with Nurse Joy or what?
Its been alluded since OS that Pokemon need recovery time after strenuous battles, especially during the League. Which is why Ash rotated in all Leagues barring Hoenn and even then I'm attributing his loss in the AG League to his Pokemon running out of steam.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
That's a problem I have with DP. If the Hoenn Pokemon were able to compete in all there battles, why couldn't he of used better Pokemon against Tobias? Did Brock finally get busy with Nurse Joy or what?
Kek. Don't forget Ash's opponents in the Hoenn League helped prevent some wear and tear. Glalie easily took out out Dugtrio and Misdreavus, and only got KO'd due to Destiny Bond, so it took no damage from its battles. Morrison's Girafirag and Growlithe could have definitely done more damage if Morrison wasn't fighting half-heartedly. A lot of battles weren't too drawn out.

Glalie being a powerhouse at the League really helped. It took out Charizard and next battle wrecked Dugtrio and forced Katie to use her Misdreavus play, and single-handedly fought and won against Morrison's main Pokemon. If Ash had defeated Tyson, Glalie definitely helped by taking out Sceptile alone.

Also this:

Its been alluded since OS that Pokemon need recovery time after strenuous battles, especially during the League. Which is why Ash rotated in all Leagues barring Hoenn and even then I'm attributing his loss in the AG League to his Pokemon running out of steam.
The last bit is probably what partially did cost Ash the match against Tyson.
 

Dax

R.I.P Dax
Torterra is a solid tier 3 Pokemon. It holds its own against tough competition. But it screws itself over with Suicide Mountain.
Can we stop with the tier ********? It's so subjective and everyone talks about it like it's something set on stone when it was just randomly made up in biased ridden thread.


Anyways, I believe, like almost everyone, that Torterra was probably the biggest victim of Infernape's constant glorification. It still doesn't mean that it's a bad pokemon. It was a solid contender against Bertha.

What I think truly happened was that Torterra wasn't as flexible to animate as Infernape. Torterra, because of its built, it's meant to stay still and attack from a given place, while pokemon like Staraptor, Buizel, Gliscor and Infernape could move around freely. That opens more creative opportunities in battle that a writer and an animation director can take advantage of. The main reason why Rock Climb was part of its moveset was to give it movement, which ultimately ended not being as effective because it wasn't a flexible attack to animate either. So, I don't think that "Ash doesn't know how to handle slow pokemon" is an excuse. It's just that when you're writing or animating and you're given the option to choose a paralyzed turtle versus a fast monkey, you'll choose the latter because it gives you more freedom.
 

Lorde

Banned
Although Torterra flopped after fully evolving, he still managed to get development when all was said and done. So I don't see him as a victim at all to be frank. :x
 

Vernikova

Champion
Anyways, I believe, like almost everyone, that Torterra was probably the biggest victim of Infernape's constant glorification. It still doesn't mean that it's a bad pokemon. It was a solid contender against Bertha.
That's a high-end showing. It's consistently shown not to be at that level.

It's just that when you're writing or animating and you're given the option to choose a paralyzed turtle versus a fast monkey, you'll choose the latter because it gives you more freedom.
While that is a reasonable out-of-series excuse, there needs to be an in-universe reason for it.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Can we stop with the tier ********? It's so subjective and everyone talks about it like it's something set on stone when it was just randomly made up in biased ridden thread.
It's the system I use to sort overall ability, and others have liked it and picked it up. Sorry you feel that way.

What I think truly happened was that Torterra wasn't as flexible to animate as Infernape. Torterra, because of its built, it's meant to stay still and attack from a given place, while pokemon like Staraptor, Buizel, Gliscor and Infernape could move around freely. That opens more creative opportunities in battle that a writer and an animation director can take advantage of. The main reason why Rock Climb was part of its moveset was to give it movement, which ultimately ended not being as effective because it wasn't a flexible attack to animate either.
That was the whole point though. That's why Paul's Torterra even went over and demonstrated that lack of speed can be compensated by superb defense. Suicide Mountain felt incredibly out-of-place on Grotle/Torterra. And the animation is no excuse, in my opinion, when they were able to show Paul's Torterra effectively.

So, I don't think that "Ash doesn't know how to handle slow pokemon" is an excuse. It's just that when you're writing or animating and you're given the option to choose a paralyzed turtle versus a fast monkey, you'll choose the latter because it gives you more freedom.
Honestly, out-of-universe explanation for the losses might be due to writing to give Infernape as much glory as possible. But also, Suicide Mountain could have been an effective move if it wasn't suicidal. Why doesn't Torterra elevate and then bum-rush downward behind the power of gravity rather than charging upward like a lunatic? Half the time the opponent would use the high ground advantage and just throw him down to his death.
 
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unpleasant unfezant

Active Member
It's the system I use to sort overall ability, and others have liked it and picked it up. Sorry you feel that way.



That was the whole point though. That's why Paul's Torterra even went over and demonstrated that lack of speed can be compensated by superb defense. Suicide Mountain felt incredibly out-of-place on Grotle/Torterra. And the animation is no excuse, in my opinion, when they were able to show Paul's Torterra effectively.



Honestly, out-of-universe explanation for the losses might be due to writing to give Infernape as much glory as possible. But also, Suicide Mountain could have been an effective move if it wasn't suicidal. Why doesn't Torterra elevate and then bum-rush downward behind the power of gravity rather than charging upward like a lunatic? Half the time the opponent would use the high ground advantage and just throw him down to his death.
tbf, Ash and Paul dont have the same presence on the battlefield. Paul is always the guy being five steps ahead of the opponent, while Ash is usually the one jumping around trying to find a way to beat his ememy's strategy, or just attacking head on. If Ash was in 100% control of every battle, things would get kinda stale IMO.
 

World Turtle

Well-Known Member
Honestly, out-of-universe explanation for the losses might be due to writing to give Infernape as much glory as possible. But also, Suicide Mountain could have been an effective move if it wasn't suicidal. Why doesn't Torterra elevate and then bum-rush downward behind the power of gravity rather than charging upward like a lunatic? Half the time the opponent would use the high ground advantage and just throw him down to his death.
To quote Sun Tzu "It is a military axiom not to advance uphill against the enemy, nor to oppose him when he comes downhill."

…its kind of sad really seeing as Ash actually quoted Sun Tzu before, "Know yourself, know your enemy, and victory will be yours" he said that to Brock during the Cerulean Gym Episode.
 
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JSLatios

REVIVAL ON 9TH!!!
Torterra is love, Torterra is life

Torterra is definitley going to comeback and Ash will be a better pokemon trainer to help it reach it's full potential.
 

Jknombricks

Just some guy
Infernape was meant to have the glory in DP; there's really nothing that could have been done about that. At least he had attention most of the time before the end of DP. Let's just hope that Torterra gets some action in the Kalos League. :)
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
It's the system I use to sort overall ability, and others have liked it and picked it up. Sorry you feel that way.



That was the whole point though. That's why Paul's Torterra even went over and demonstrated that lack of speed can be compensated by superb defense. Suicide Mountain felt incredibly out-of-place on Grotle/Torterra. And the animation is no excuse, in my opinion, when they were able to show Paul's Torterra effectively.



Honestly, out-of-universe explanation for the losses might be due to writing to give Infernape as much glory as possible. But also, Suicide Mountain could have been an effective move if it wasn't suicidal. Why doesn't Torterra elevate and then bum-rush downward behind the power of gravity rather than charging upward like a lunatic? Half the time the opponent would use the high ground advantage and just throw him down to his death.
why didn't it just use the attack like it did against Candice? just a move that was essentially a fast attack but didn't make the ground rise. that was the only time it worked properly that i can remember.
 
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