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Ask a Question Thread - READ FIRST POST

Discussion in '6th Gen' started by Ragnarok, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Xblade13

    Xblade13 Experimentalist

    I decided to use Oshawott for the first time because I wanted to try making it viable. For a while I wasn't sure what the best thing to do with him was. Then I had this idea:


    HP - 0 EVs
    ATT - 252 EVs
    DEF - 0 EVs
    SP ATT - 252 EVs
    SP DEF - 0 EVs
    SPE - 4 EVs

    Lonely Nature

    Swords Dance
    Aqua Jet
    Hydro Pump

    Item - Focus Sash

    This way I utilize its higher offense stats to their fullest and homage the whole "samurai" naming. He Swords Dances first, until the opponent hits him and inevitably brings him to 1 HP with Focus Sash. Then, Torrent boosted Aqua Jet if the opponent is faster, or the choice of Megahorn or Hydro Pump if they are slower. Which one depends on the opponent's type and which of their defensive stats are usually higher.

    It still isn't "Uber" tier but it is more useful than anything you can do with its mediocre defenses. Feel free to give me feedback! I like to hear ideas.

    Also, if I can breed a good one, having 0/31/0/31/0/31 would probably be the best thing to ensure a "1 hit KO" and activate Focus Sash plus Torrent.
  2. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Well, this set has a few... issues.

    The first being that Focus Sash plus setup is a bit... overhyped in terms of how effective it actually is. Re: It isn't. Unless you're using it on a Lead Pokemon, Focus Sash is greatly screwed by any form of prior damage, most notably entry hazards. So it's not always reliable.

    Then there's the issue that even with Torrent and Swords Dance, Aqua Jet isn't really THAT powerful where it's gonna sweep teams. Many things outspeed it and either resist Aqua Jet or have enough bulk to survive it, and since you're left at 1HP with this strategy you'll be ripe for the picking. Plus, any opposing priority will flatten you in a heartbeat. It's basically an inferior version of Belly Drum Azumarill if I'm being honest, who pulls off the "high risk, high reward Aqua Jet sweep" more effectively.

    Next, it seems like you're trying to do too much with one set. Swords Dance Samurott is a thing. Mixed Samurott is a thing. Swords Dance Mixed Samurott is not a thing. The issue is that Hydro Pump gets nothing out of Swords Dance, and it leaves you without a strong physical Water STAB for when you don't need the priority of Aqua Jet, or need to hit things harder than an Aqua Jet. Again, trying to go Mixed is a thing but trying to fit too much in one set means you're not gonna be able to hit all the things you want to. For instance, mixed loves Ice Beam, SD loves Waterfall... you get the idea.

    Plus without speed investment you run into issues of being more easily revenge killed, or forced to switch out. And obviously if you have to switch out, then being stuck at 1 HP will hinder you for the rest of the match.

    It just seems a little gimmicky, and doesn't really make Samurott all that viable. Honestly, if you want to abuse SD, Adamant 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe with Waterfall over Hydro Pump is usually the way to go.
  3. Smokin' weedle

    Smokin' weedle Well-Known Member

    What about the fact that certain moves are a 2HKO, but won't get you to 30%. Then you won't have torrent boost, and be completely screwed.
  4. Xblade13

    Xblade13 Experimentalist

    Thanks for the reply. ^~^ I am rather new to competitive battling, and I am happy to get a few pointers.

    Yeah, I didn't have entry hazards thought out. Mostly because I hardly ever use them myself. :/ But, I didn't know what to do with Samurott. He's got weird stats and an awkward movepool. And his HA Shell Armor doesn't help when he has little defenses and little to no defense-boosting status. TBH he is the starter that could use a Mega Evolution the most. Or at least more moves.

    Imagine Dragon Dance on him. XD
  5. future.newyorker

    future.newyorker Well-Known Member

    What's a good move set for a protean Greninja?
  6. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    For tiered play, Greninja is sadly a pretty useless Pokemon, falling into the category of Pokemon who are too good for OU but not good enough to carve themselves any serious niche in Ubers (Greninja's most common set is a pretty bad Toxic Spikes support set).

    If you're playing Battle Spot or something, the best set is the standard offensive set.

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Naive - Protean
    252 Speed, 236 Sp. Atk, 20 Attack
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Dark Pulse
    -Gunk Shot​
  7. nel3

    nel3 Crimson Dragon

    ive done a bunch of random battles in battle spot before and come up against the standard OU/uber and legend teams from my opponents. i heard that the rated battles dont allow ceratin pokemon ie legends. is this true and if so are the common team in rated battles truly competitive/VGC type teams? i wouldnt mind trying the rated battles but i cant really do much against a good OU team most of the time even on random battles. i still get a 75-80% win ratio in general despite the OP teams in random battles.
  8. Smokin' weedle

    Smokin' weedle Well-Known Member

    Do speed drops/boosts change the damage electro ball does?
  9. AceTrainerBen

    AceTrainerBen Well-Known Member

    Yes it does, it can also factor in the speed drops from either poke being paralysed.
  10. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Changes to Speed also affect Gyro Ball's damage.
  11. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    To further clarify, Gyro Ball and Electro Ball utilize each Pokemon's current speed stat, including modifiers. Since it's about the actual speed stat itself, things that change turn order but don't affect speed, such as Trick Room or priority, do not affect the damage calculation.
  12. ItsMeBrandon

    ItsMeBrandon Well-Known Member

    I'm a bit new to the competitive scene as I'm only now building my first competitive team and experimenting with it.
    I was wondering if it's generally unwise/dumb to have a Pokémon with a nature that boosts a stat but not give it 252 EVs in that stat.

    The reason I'm asking is because while I'm aware that most sets probably really should commit to raising 1 or 2 stats as high as possible while leaving the others in the dust, I tend to want to balance a Pokémon's stats if they have decent bulk, both offensively and defensively. In other words, where I know I'd be better off committing to 1 stat, I usually want to commit to 2 or sometimes 3.

    Example- I'm using a Marvel Scale Milotic with Calm nature on this team, and the EV spread is 252 HP, 252 Def., and 4 Sp. Def.
    My reasoning is that Milotic has base 125 Sp. Def., so I want to use her defensively. Her base 79 Def. is kind of low, though, so I want to make sure this stat gets raised to about her Sp. Def.
    To do that, I decided to give her a Sp. Def-raising nature while putting the actual EVs into her Defense so they might balance out. Whether they do or not I don't actually know, I'll admit.

    I'm about sure that the smarter thing to do is either use a Milotic with Bold instead of Calm nature, or switch the Def. EVs and Sp. Def EVs.
    The thing is, that's kind of my problem. I know committing to both defenses won't give Milotic as much of a specialty area to be really good at, but I have trouble being willing to commit to just one.

    Sorry if this is a strange problem I'm bringing up, but, any advice would be appreciated.
  13. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Generally splitting EVs is only wise to hit certain benchmarks (survive certain attacks, outspeed certain threats, guarantee certain KOs). Putting EVs in a stat just because you feel like it is rarely a good idea unless you have some extra EVs lying around and nothing to do with them. For instance, after Speed creeping a certain threat, many Pokemon will dump a few EVs in HP. In general 252/252/4 spreads are usually sufficient and very easy to build, especially on offensive Pokemon.

    You also want to be careful about overspreading your Pokemon's roles. Trying to balance your Pokemon's bulk may seem nice on paper but will often inhibit its ability to check the things it's supposed to check.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  14. ItsMeBrandon

    ItsMeBrandon Well-Known Member

    Splitting EVs, if you mean doing something other than a 252/252/4 spread, is something I don't intend to consider right now if only because it's probably easier for a novice like me to do just the simplest kind of spread.
    I don't believe I brought up the idea of doing that unless I might've unknowingly implied it, but I get your point.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure my problem is that I don't quite have the mentality where each Pokémon on your team plays a specific role, instead of being able to cover a lot of ground.
    Thanks a lot for the advice!
  15. Scherzando

    Scherzando scare-TZAN-doe

    Sooo I followed Smogon's advice about giving a Slurpuff 28 HP EVs so it'll hit an even number and activate Sitrus Berry+Unburden after a Belly Drum. I got it to level 50, which is how I intended to battle with it, and it got an odd HP number. Will it hit an even number at level 100?
    Oh, and I used a Reset Bag and quit without saving to double check its EVs were correct as Smogon suggested.
  16. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Yes, Smogon's suggested EV sets for standard tiers are intended for level 100 Pokemon.
  17. Zamin

    Zamin Well-Known Member

    What are the best walls to use? I'm thinking of breeding a Hippowdon to use
  18. MetalSonic

    MetalSonic Orderan' Defendan'

    Hippowdon can be a fantastic answer to many things and is a fairly effecive wall with its very respectable physical defenses and pure ground typing. Slack Off is a must so do remember to breed that on. Hippowdon can also be a very nice check to certain electrics such as Raikou and Manectric that rely on the weak HP Ice to be able to beat less bulkier grounds.

    Really though, it depends on what your team needs! If it needs an effective mixed wall, then Hippowdon is deff your dude. It has just the right amount of bulk to make it work. There are no "best walls" so to say but there are prominent ones like Chansey who soaks up most special hits.
  19. nel3

    nel3 Crimson Dragon

    i did a few double battles in the free battle spot today and i want to know if the strategy used again my team in 1 battle was a valid tactic or a scumbag move. i know that not all players play fair in battle spot but thats unfortunately how it goes. they brought out bulky/support?? arcanine and M-gengar leads. they led off with a perish song by M gengar and switched out to a shadow tag gothielle. where they playing fairly in this battle? i had no Uturn or way to escape this particular strategy.

    ive played battle spot quite a bit these days and have grown to hate some Mgengar and darkrai..........
  20. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    I'm not really sure why Gothitelle was even necessary in this case. Perish Trapper M-Gengar has been a nuisance since it was released and was a large part of the reason why it was banned from OU. Gothitelle was another infamous trapper with Shadow Tag but having them both on the same team seems a little redundant. Anyways "fair" is completely subjective and isn't actually quantifiable or measurable, and Mega Gengar is allowed in Battle Spot, so I can't really say it was a fair or unfair strategy. I don't think it is, but that's just my opinion.

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