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[LynxForte]

I'm not really sure why Gothitelle was even necessary in this case. Perish Trapper M-Gengar has been a nuisance since it was released and was a large part of the reason why it was banned from OU. Gothitelle was another infamous trapper with Shadow Tag but having them both on the same team seems a little redundant. Anyways "fair" is completely subjective and isn't actually quantifiable or measurable, and Mega Gengar is allowed in Battle Spot, so I can't really say it was a fair or unfair strategy. I don't think it is, but that's just my opinion.

The way that strategy sometimes works is Gengar uses Perish Song on the first turn and to keep it from taking too much damage, it is switched out immediately into Gothitelle. That way the opponent is still perish trapped and Gengar can clean up later if necessary. As you said, "fair" is subjective, but it is something that a lot of people do because "winning is winning." I've seen people take 4 self-destruct/explosion pokemon with protect and 2 coverage moves (usually fire and ground) and just spam it the entire time. I don't know if it's trolling or just an easy win, but people do it.

 

[nel3]

thank you for the reply Divine Retribution and LynxFox. i guess a winning strategy is still a strategy but it leaves a very sour taste in the mouth. if i had led with M-Gardevoir id' probably have been able to KO gengar but it still left the gothielle for a switch in next turn. ive seen a bunch of questionable tactics on battle spot but this one really pissed me off.

it could be Karma but ive ticked off a bunch of players too with my EV calculated M-Gardevoir (4 attacks). its not the slower bulky/bold set nor a fast timid/modest set and alot of opponents had a real hard time beating my M-gardevoir. there were many battles where the battle was swept/cleaned up by my Gardevoir even VS those uber legends. most were gracious enough to give the win while others DC'd.

ive beaten a few citrus berry belly drum azumaril with gardevoir and rough skin druddigon (scarf/rocky helmet). its was funny as hell i lead with garde, Tbolt it for 50% damage to get citrus berry going and let aquajet smash on druddigon's rough skin LOL. ive yet to get a M-kanga fake out on Druddigon but im fishing around for it. this druddigon was my first bred MM shiny and i took near forever to get the first and only one, i stopped after that one. i might try again later on for one but hatching monster class eggs is painful.

 

[Italianbaptist]

Didn't see anything to post about this in the competitive threads so gonna throw it in here.

Been playing the Sun/Moon demo and having a blast. How do you guys think the ability Battle Bond is going to fare competitively? Do you think we'll be seeing a lot of Ash-Greninja in the meta or are people just gonna stick with Protean instead?

EDIT: Last time I checked Smogon, people wouldn't be using Protean Greninja in OU because it's banned but I was thinking with other formats as well. If you guys think Ash-Greninja might make a comeback in OU if Protean itself is still banned lemme know.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Didn't see anything to post about this in the competitive threads so gonna throw it in here.

Been playing the Sun/Moon demo and having a blast. How do you guys think the ability Battle Bond is going to fare competitively? Do you think we'll be seeing a lot of Ash-Greninja in the meta or are people just gonna stick with Protean instead?

EDIT: Last time I checked Smogon, people wouldn't be using Protean Greninja in OU because it's banned but I was thinking with other formats as well. If you guys think Ash-Greninja might make a comeback in OU if Protean itself is still banned lemme know.

The issue with Ash-Greninja is that it appears to be nature locked into a flat nature, which means it's neither as fast nor as powerful as a Pokemon with its stats should be. Furthermore, the omnipresence of Primal Groudon in Ubers makes it a liability to be reliant on Water-typed moves, and would make it very difficult for Ash-Greninja to even get a first KO in order to activate Battle Bond.

On the other hand, Battle Bond Water Shuriken has the potential to be amongst the strongest priority moves in the game, once we figure out exactly how much it buffs it by. Furthermore being one of only two special Priority moves in the game (with the other having a horrible distribution) has some merit as well, although it's a shame it won't see much if any usage in the lower tiers.

I guess it really remains to be seen. Hopefully we'll be able to breed Ash-Greninja for one with a better nature, but it seems unlikely.

 

[ThePokemonmaster11]

You gotta think out of the box with Battle Bond Greninja, you can easily set it up to dominate with Baton Pass. Gliscor has killer defense and fairly good special defense allowing to tank hits. In theory, a Gliscor with Baton Pass could use a Swords Dance or two and transfer the boosted attack over to Greninja allowing Greninja to get its first knockout easier. Unfortunately, that doesn't solve Greninja's glass cannon status.

You gotta think out of the box with Battle Bond Greninja, you can easily set it up to dominate with Baton Pass. Gliscor has killer defense and fairly good special defense allowing to tank hits. In theory, a Gliscor with Baton Pass could use a Swords Dance or two and transfer the boosted attack over to Greninja allowing Greninja to get its first knockout easier. Unfortunately, that doesn't solve Greninja's glass cannon status.

After further research, having Espeon spam Calm Mind before transferring the stats via Baton Pass would be far more helpful.

 

[Divine Retribution]

After further research, having Espeon spam Calm Mind before transferring the stats via Baton Pass would be far more helpful.

And then you've wasted two team slots on a Pokemon that really isn't any stronger than any of the other Pokemon in Ubers, only to most likely get revengekilled by Arceus-N or phased out by Lugia. Not to mention both of the things you mentioned are far too frail to set up on pretty much anything in Ubers.

Baton Pass is a gimmick that frankly doesn't usually work without a massive amount of team support (and there's better ways to abuse it than just passing boosts to something like Greninja-A). Even in Battle Spot Singles where passing Speed boosts with other boosts is allowed, you're still better off SmashPassing with Smeargle into Mega Garchomp or something along those lines.

Plus, you can set up nearly anything to "dominate" with Baton Pass. I still have quite a few replays of me sweeping with a Castform from before the Baton Pass restrictions were put into place.

Oh, and Baton Pass doesn't stop it from being murdered by Primal Groudon, who finds himself on at least 9 out of 10 Ubers teams currently.

 

[ThePokemonmaster11]

And then you've wasted two team slots on a Pokemon that really isn't any stronger than any of the other Pokemon in Ubers, only to most likely get revengekilled by Arceus-N or phased out by Lugia. Not to mention both of the things you mentioned are far too frail to set up on pretty much anything in Ubers.

Baton Pass is a gimmick that frankly doesn't usually work without a massive amount of team support (and there's better ways to abuse it than just passing boosts to something like Greninja-A). Even in Battle Spot Singles where passing Speed boosts with other boosts is allowed, you're still better off SmashPassing with Smeargle into Mega Garchomp or something along those lines.

Plus, you can set up nearly anything to "dominate" with Baton Pass. I still have quite a few replays of me sweeping with a Castform from before the Baton Pass restrictions were put into place.

Oh, and Baton Pass doesn't stop it from being murdered by Primal Groudon, who finds himself on at least 9 out of 10 Ubers teams currently.

I never said I'd use it or that my plan didn't have flaws (Baton Pass gives the opponent time to toast the user and Gastro Acid would wreck the entire Battle Bond plan), I simply was giving a battle strategy that could make a Battle Bond Greninja somewhat competitive in reference to previous posts.

Has anyone set up a Shuckle with Baton Pass? That would be hilarious!

 

[nel3]

i have a slightly weird question here. i just finished breeding 2 5IV timid Riolu (inner focus) for my battle team X/OR with life orb. its not the best item on it but my main mega is Gardevoir. the planned move set will be a full SPA sweeper: nasty plot, vacuum wave, psychic, flash cannon. i dont always use nasty plot but it did serve very useful to stall out those destiny bond trappers when i couldnt switch out for various reason. it also helps boost his SPA when i have the luxury to use it.

my question here is regarding the hidden power values. i got 3 (3IV) female luxury ball Riolu their HP types are electric, grass, ice, fire. i like gimmicky sets and surprises even if they are situational. which of these HP values can be complimenting of the current moves providing i replace nasty plot for a hidden power? i doubt i'll use HP for a move and i will keep all 3 of them for the luxury ball. i will be keeping 1 of them ingame and the rest will go to PK bank. the question is which of the 3 i'll keep ingame of the HP types. if i do go for a HP Lucario i'll go for better IVs but is there an ideal HP value for a SPA Lucario?

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

i have a slightly weird question here. i just finished breeding 2 5IV timid Riolu (inner focus) for my battle team X/OR with life orb. its not the best item on it but my main mega is Gardevoir. the planned move set will be a full SPA sweeper: nasty plot, vacuum wave, psychic, flash cannon. i dont always use nasty plot but it did serve very useful to stall out those destiny bond trappers when i couldnt switch out for various reason. it also helps boost his SPA when i have the luxury to use it.

my question here is regarding the hidden power values. i got 3 (3IV) female luxury ball Riolu their HP types are electric, grass, ice, fire. i like gimmicky sets and surprises even if they are situational. which of these HP values can be complimenting of the current moves providing i replace nasty plot for a hidden power? i doubt i'll use HP for a move and i will keep all 3 of them for the luxury ball. i will be keeping 1 of them ingame and the rest will go to PK bank. the question is which of the 3 i'll keep ingame of the HP types. if i do go for a HP Lucario i'll go for better IVs but is there an ideal HP value for a SPA Lucario?

Honestly, HIdden Power really isn't worth it. If you're really wanting to use a special Lucario with a build like yours, your best bet would probably look something like this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Inner Focus
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
-Nasty Plot
-Focus Blast/Aura Sphere
-Flash Cannon
-Vacuum Wave

Psychic does basically nothing for Lucario. It hits poison types, but who is switching in a poison type to fight it? It may also hit fighting types, but you should never leave Lucario in against a fighting type. Focus Blast and Aura Sphere are two sides of the same coin, one powerful but inaccurate, and one weaker but perfectly accurate. Flash Cannon offers STAB damage against your fairy enemies, and Vacuum Wave lets it offset its average speed. But honestly, if you aren't using Lucario as a mega, it probably shouldn't be your first choice, as there are other things that outclass it. Keldeo makes for a better special attacker, with its higher speed and special attack. It also has the ability to be a mixed attacker without having to invest in attack.

 

[nel3]

Honestly, HIdden Power really isn't worth it. If you're really wanting to use a special Lucario with a build like yours, your best bet would probably look something like this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Inner Focus
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
-Nasty Plot
-Focus Blast/Aura Sphere
-Flash Cannon
-Vacuum Wave

Psychic does basically nothing for Lucario. It hits poison types, but who is switching in a poison type to fight it? It may also hit fighting types, but you should never leave Lucario in against a fighting type. Focus Blast and Aura Sphere are two sides of the same coin, one powerful but inaccurate, and one weaker but perfectly accurate. Flash Cannon offers STAB damage against your fairy enemies, and Vacuum Wave lets it offset its average speed. But honestly, if you aren't using Lucario as a mega, it probably shouldn't be your first choice, as there are other things that outclass it. Keldeo makes for a better special attacker, with its higher speed and special attack. It also has the ability to be a mixed attacker without having to invest in attack.

thank you for the reply. im aware that Lucario isnt the best special attacker but i have fun using him on the team, much more than running Keldeo on the team. im not a fig fan of legends nor event pkmn, in fact i hardly use legends. last time i had one on the team was around a year ago. i'll probably go with aurasphere, im already running focus blast on my M Garde. in the past ive used psychic VS the ghosts. it did what it did depending on the SDF bulk on certain pkmn, its more or a surprise/gimmick on that use of the move. i mostly use flash cannon and vacuum wave.

 

[Kansas_Rocks!]

thank you for the reply. im aware that Lucario isnt the best special attacker but i have fun using him on the team, much more than running Keldeo on the team. im not a fig fan of legends nor event pkmn, in fact i hardly use legends. last time i had one on the team was around a year ago. i'll probably go with aurasphere, im already running focus blast on my M Garde. in the past ive used psychic VS the ghosts. it did what it did depending on the SDF bulk on certain pkmn, its more or a surprise/gimmick on that use of the move. i mostly use flash cannon and vacuum wave.

But there is no reason to use it against ghosts, unless they have a secondary typing that makes it do super effective damage, as Flash Cannon has STAB, which gives it a base damage of 120, and Psychic is not super effective against ghost.

 

[nel3]

But there is no reason to use it against ghosts, unless they have a secondary typing that makes it do super effective damage, as Flash Cannon has STAB, which gives it a base damage of 120, and Psychic is not super effective against ghost.

the psychic set was just the old set that i came up with long ago that i have yet to update to make it better. my current team hasnt changed much at all since the past year or 2. i do have a 6th slot wild card for annoyances/obstacles but the other 5 are pretty much the same save for a PHY->SPA movset. my team is far from perfect and has a bunch of weaknesses in it but i chose the members for a design/ability. it has its downsides but im working with pkmn i like. i dont have any issues in tweaking the movesets to make it a bit better.

 

[Italianbaptist]

With the VGC format getting ready to change again, what was the general consensus for the "legendaries-included" VGC rules? I remember a lot of people dreading Mega Rayquaza and I personally thought it was kinda crazy, but how did the community at large feel about it? They seem to be excluding the major legendaries (Solgaleo and Lunaala for now) again this first go around but do you think Nintendo would try the Ubersesque format again or was there a ton of backlash?

 

[EKZ1505]

With the VGC format getting ready to change again, what was the general consensus for the "legendaries-included" VGC rules? I remember a lot of people dreading Mega Rayquaza and I personally thought it was kinda crazy, but how did the community at large feel about it? They seem to be excluding the major legendaries (Solgaleo and Lunaala for now) again this first go around but do you think Nintendo would try the Ubersesque format again or was there a ton of backlash?

Every single person I spoke to at Regionals disliked it, and everything I've seen online echoed that. It was fun for a bit, but seeing so many similar teams (thankfully Worlds was a little better) with unforgiving strategies really limited the usable amount of Pokémon. Rayquaza wasn't even the main problem actually. I think this format could be a little better in the future now that one of the main problems has been nerfed (won't spoil that yet if you didn't see the Sun and Moon leaks). There's a lot of excitement for the 2017 rules though.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

I need help finding the best moveset for Volcanion and after doing some research on my own I came up with this moveset for it:

Volcanion @ Life Orb / Power Herb
Naughty Nature
EV's: 156 ATK, 252 Sp. ATK, 100 Speed

• Steam Eruption
• Fire Blast
• Sludge Wave / Solar Beam / Earth Power
• Superpower

The EV spread is to help maximize Volcanion's ability to 2HKO Chansey/Blissey with Superpower while Earth Power is an option against Thundurus, Mega Manectric, and Raikou.

With Hidden Power Grass being hard to soft reset into I debated as to whether If Solar Beam would be good enough to help counter against Gastrodon and Seismitoad with Power Herb only granting me a one time use with it.

If you need me to move this to the 7th Gen version of this thread feel free to notify me.

 

[MetalSonic]

The best moveset, or rather the most popular one, for Volcanion is the Choice Specs set with a Modest nature.

Yours isnt so bad though, it's a nice lure with Solar Beam or Superpower. Having grass coverage or Superpower on your Canion isn't unheard of. You may wanna try really hard to get HP Grass so you don't have to limit yourself to Power Herb, however.

252 SpA Life Orb Volcanion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Gastrodon: 312-369 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
If anything, Solar Beam works best against bulky x2 weak waters like Rotom-W as im fairly sure it KO's after a Steam Eruption.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

I didn't want to run the risk of getting Volcanion locked into one move with Choice Specs which is why I went with Life Orb however my main goal was to find a competitive moveset for it that didn't need to rely on Hidden Power Grass/Ice for type coverage.

 

[Magi of all]

So, I'm not sure exactly where this belongs, so I'm just gonna throw it up here. If a Pokemon with Protean is turned into a Ghost type, then hit with Foresight, then turns into another type and then later back to Ghost, would the previous Foresight still be in effect?

Example:
Protean Pokemon uses Lick, becomes Ghost
Opponent uses Foresight, Ghost can now be hit
Protean Pokemon uses Cut, becomes Normal
Protean Pokemon uses Lick again.
If the Opponent uses a Fighting or Normal attack, will it hit?

 

[Divine Retribution]

So, I'm not sure exactly where this belongs, so I'm just gonna throw it up here. If a Pokemon with Protean is turned into a Ghost type, then hit with Foresight, then turns into another type and then later back to Ghost, would the previous Foresight still be in effect?

Example:
Protean Pokemon uses Lick, becomes Ghost
Opponent uses Foresight, Ghost can now be hit
Protean Pokemon uses Cut, becomes Normal
Protean Pokemon uses Lick again.
If the Opponent uses a Fighting or Normal attack, will it hit?

Yes. Foresight is actually a volatile status condition (like confusion) that is applied to the opposing Pokemon until it switches out.

 

[Poke Trainer J]

Need help finding the best moveset for Meloetta when I've narrowed it down to this so far:

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Lonely Nature
EV's: 248 HP, 252 ATK, 8 Speed

• Relic Song
• Drain Punch
• Knock Off
• Return