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[BugCatcher6]

Hello all.

I have not been active in awhile and saw the PGL is having a Little Cup tournament.

My question is, are weather teams viable in the Little Cup format? I would like to build a Hail team, but Hail has always been lacking. Sandstorm has evasion boost and some power increase and speed boost.

Sun and Rain have always been speed abusers, but both really need Sunny Day and Rain Dance to be used, Drought by Vulpix only.

Any help with deciding would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Psynergy]

Hello all.

I have not been active in awhile and saw the PGL is having a Little Cup tournament.

My question is, are weather teams viable in the Little Cup format? I would like to build a Hail team, but Hail has always been lacking. Sandstorm has evasion boost and some power increase and speed boost.

Sun and Rain have always been speed abusers, but both really need Sunny Day and Rain Dance to be used, Drought by Vulpix only.

Any help with deciding would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

In a 3v3 format natural weather is seemingly more viable due to the fact that battles in general are shorter. Given the nature of 3v3 I'd say that a full weather team isn't as effective, though a weather core of 2 or 3 Pokemon might have success. That said the discussions I've seen point to Sun being incredibly dominant over other weather since the combination of Vulpix and Chlorophyll Tangela can destroy teams on its own, made more effective in that Sun Tangela outspeeds Sneasel who is arguably the biggest threat in this. I'm not incredibly knowledgeable on Smogon Little Cup though so I can't offer much on what weather is viable in Little Cup outside of "Sun is good."

 

[Creyk]

Really, I know it was banned on smogon, but this is an official little cup competition which doesn't operate on that rules. So, will Scyther be allowed?

 

[BugCatcher6]

The PGL rules have only banned Eviolite, Soul Dew, Dragon Rage, and Sonicboom. And of course, Pokémon without an Evolution, Pokémon that have evolved, and no duplicate Pokémon or items.


That is not something I thought of. Using only 3 Pokémon per battle I could still do more than just a full on weather team. I was thinking 6vs6 with developing my team.

It also has me concerned now that the Smogon Banned Pokémon will be in play. Almost have to plan your team to counter because sadly people follow suit on needing to have the most powerful on a team.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. I myself like more variety.

Thanks for the reply, it has changed my planning stages greatly.

 

[Karxrida]

If you're interested in GF's Little Cup, read this thread. The old Smogon LC leader has some tips and provided some sample sets to use.

Concerning Espeon, it sucks because it's super frail physically, which lets just about every good SR setter beat it 1v1 unless Espeon has the right coverage move (usually comes down to what Hidden Power you have). Azelf also sometimes run Skill Swap for Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, so it can't even stop it consistently, plus Espeon super easy to lure out and kill with the threat of Rocks going up.

 

[SilvanOrion]

Just wanted to toss in my two cents on the Eespeon thing.

Yeah, I know there are better ones out there (Sableye having some great defenses) and that she is a very physically weak pokemon. However, the main point of my team here is to show some love to the pokemon that keeps me coming back time after time.
On a slightly related note, what kind of moves do you suggest to help make Eespeon more of a threat? Since they can be shut down so hard with low HP and defenses, I'd imagine wanting to go for a fast takedown of the opponent, but there are always things that I haven't thought of.

 

[Karxrida]

Just wanted to toss in my two cents on the Eespeon thing.

Yeah, I know there are better ones out there (Sableye having some great defenses) and that she is a very physically weak pokemon. However, the main point of my team here is to show some love to the pokemon that keeps me coming back time after time.
On a slightly related note, what kind of moves do you suggest to help make Eespeon more of a threat? Since they can be shut down so hard with low HP and defenses, I'd imagine wanting to go for a fast takedown of the opponent, but there are always things that I haven't thought of.

If you want to run a legitimate competitive team with Espeon, you have 2 options.

1.) Run the cancerous GeoPass team and ensure everyone hates you.
2.) Don't use Espeon, as it's outclassed.

Run LO/Sash Alakazam if you want to use a frail Psychic-type that has virtually no good switch-in opportunities. Alakazam has much better coverage and utility moves, is stronger and faster (faster is super important, as it lets it outspeed Scarf Tyranitar and has a shot to OHKO with Focus Blast), and with Sash gives you a "get-out-of-jail-free" card for a ton of sweepers since you're guaranteed to have an intact Focus Sash. Alternatively, just run the faster Starmie, which has a legit defensive set, can actually remove hazards thanks to Rapid Spin, and again has better coverage.

 

[Teacup]

I would just fill Espeon with a bunch of special attacks like psychic, shadow ball, dazzling gleam, signal beam which is good coverage against its weaknesses. It's as frail as Jolteon but less speed so I would give it a focus sash and give Jolteon a life orb or wise glasses or air balloon.

 

[varanus_komodoensis]

A few things are wrong with this statement. Mega Sableye and Diancie are both hugely viable and popular Mega Evolutions so they're hardly "wasting" a Mega (although I'll give you Absol since it's got some problems holding it back). They both bring things to the table other than Magic Bounce, whereas Espeon pretty much only brings Magic Bounce, so if anything I'd say having to use Espeon solely for magic bounce is more of a waste of a slot (albeit one of six rather than one of a single slot like a Mega Evolution). Espeon's not very popular at all right now, either. It's sitting at a 0.38582% usage in OU, while even in UU it's only got about 2.89565% usage.

The more valid criticism of the Magic Bounce Mega Evolutions is that they need that turn to Mega Evolve, so they can't always just directly switch in to bounce things away like Espeon (or Xatu, lol).

The point I was trying to make is more that if you're trying to add a Pokemon to your team that has Magic Bounce, and you don't want to use Espeon, you have no other choice but to use your Mega on a Magic Bounce user. The use of the Mega for that purpose doesn't fit everyone's needs, and that's why Espeon is still used in a lot of cases instead of Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.

 

[KillerDraco]

The point I was trying to make is more that if you're trying to add a Pokemon to your team that has Magic Bounce, and you don't want to use Espeon, you have no other choice but to use your Mega on a Magic Bounce user. The use of the Mega for that purpose doesn't fit everyone's needs, and that's why Espeon is still used in a lot of cases instead of Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie.

...Except it's not used in "a lot of cases", and there's data to back that up, too.

Also consider that there's a Mega Evolution with Magic Bounce for basically every playstyle (stall, offense, balance, etc.), so you can typically fit one of them into any team without too much duress (not every team though, but that's being overly specific). Unless you're building a team around a specific other Mega Evolution, and somehow "need" Magic Bounce, which honestly, you don't, because as nice as Magic Bounce can be, unless you're utilizing Baton Pass you typically don't build a team around Magic Bounce. Baton Pass teams are/were literally the only things where Magic Bounce was specifically required, and in that case, since Espeon didn't have the Mega Evolve turn where it was without Magic Bounce (meaning Boosts could be Baton Passed directly into Magic Bounce), it was the Magic Bounce user of choice.

Magic Bounce is a perk, not a necessity. There's very little in the way of teams that benefit from being built around Magic Bounce other than the aforementioned Baton Pass teams, which got neutered into oblivion on Smogon. And by that logic, without its Baton Pass teams, Espeon's barely worth using.

I would just fill Espeon with a bunch of special attacks like psychic, shadow ball, dazzling gleam, signal beam which is good coverage against its weaknesses. It's as frail as Jolteon but less speed so I would give it a focus sash

Focus Sash Espeon is literally just an inferior Alakazam, who runs the same set with more power and speed, but thanks to Magic Guard has an easier time keeping its Sash intact.

There's also Dual Screens since it can't be taunted (barring Mold Breaker), and can set them up against Stall with ease thanks to Magic Bounce.

 

[Karxrida]

I would just fill Espeon with a bunch of special attacks like psychic, shadow ball, dazzling gleam, signal beam which is good coverage against its weaknesses. It's as frail as Jolteon but less speed so I would give it a focus sash and give Jolteon a life orb or wise glasses or air balloon.

Jolteon is completely outclassed by Thundurus who is stronger, has can go mixed, has better coverage options, and Prankster T-Wave.

There's also Dual Screens since it can't be taunted (barring Mold Breaker), and can set them up against Stall with ease thanks to Magic Bounce.

Dual Screens is outclassed by Azelf (Exploding to get a free switch-in > Taunt immunity) and Klefki (Spikes and Prankster T-Wave means it isn't useless outside of Screens). Espeon is only considered viable because of the GeoPass strategy, and once they finally do something about it (which is going to happen soon according to an OU moderator that asked Haunter about it) Espeon's more than likely going to be kicked out the Viability Ranking thread.

 

[SilvanOrion]

Ok, my google-fu is failing me. Lets be fair, I'm not exactly a black belt at it anyways.
What is a GeoPass strategy?
*prepares to be flamed*

 

[KillerDraco]

Ok, my google-fu is failing me. Lets be fair, I'm not exactly a black belt at it anyways.
What is a GeoPass strategy?
*prepares to be flamed*

Baton Passing Geomancy, which can only be done by Smeargle, and it was usually passed to Espeon who abuses Stored Power, and can't be phased out very easily due to Magic Bounce.

 

[AmericanPi]

Is there ever going to be an NU or PU metagame discussion thread? I feel weaker Pokemon deserve love too...

 

[Psynergy]

Is there ever going to be an NU or PU metagame discussion thread? I feel weaker Pokemon deserve love too...

There actually is one for NU thought it hasn't had a post in over 30 days so it's technically dead. I'm sure there's no problem bumping it though now given the section's general activity and that Seismitoad rose while Magneton/Fletchinder/Pinsir/Kabutops dropped, but I don't mod this section so it's not my place to make that call.

 

[Creyk]

How do I register for the little cup competition on the 14th when the time comes?
I never participated in an official battle competition yet so I don't know, do I just go to live battles within the game and it happens on it's own?

 

[Psynergy]

How do I register for the little cup competition on the 14th when the time comes?
I never participated in an official battle competition yet so I don't know, do I just go to live battles within the game and it happens on it's own?

You want this page. From there you can click on Little Cup and it'll take you to sign up. Of course you need an account but I'm assuming you already have that covered.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Is there really a point to running Magnet Pull in the lower tiers? Mostly talking about NU.

 

[KillerDraco]

Is there really a point to running Magnet Pull in the lower tiers? Mostly talking about NU.

It has some niche value to trap and hard counter Klinklang, and can trap and dispose of Ferroseed as well. That said, Analytic also tends to have more nuking power, especially when forcing switches, so personally I prefer the latter in NU.

...I'm assuming you mean on the newcomer Magneton of course, lol

 

[Randomperson11]

What's the best build for Timid Latias in OrAs?