1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

Atheist & Agnostic Family

Discussion in 'Clubs' started by Darato, Apr 1, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Master Chief

    The Master Chief A.K.A Tythaeus

    Is it me or are some parts of the bible seem hypocritical??

    An example would be on how "God" Loves everyone yet being gay is a "sin" That dpesnt sound very loving to me xD

    Also who here prefers to not be around over religious people? I know i don't. It's like every single thing they do or say it's related to "God" >.<
     
  2. Thor72

    Thor72 Challenger

    I'd like to join if possible.

    Do you ever wonder what if there is a heaven and hell and you end up in the later for not having faith?

    Yes I have wondered that, but I believe that if the God that every Christian, Jew, Jahova's Witness, and Muslim claims exists actually does then it shouldn't matter what religion someone is as long as they were a good person. Now that's not to say that I "know" for a fact a higher power doesn't exist, because I don't. Unless someone can provide proof of either existence or non existence then I will just speculate. I will never claim to know one way or the other because how could I? But if this "God" punishes everyone who doesn't believe in him I don't understand that because he or she has not given us a reason to believe. We live in an age of science and we need tangible evidence to support that a higher power exists, so without that I will say I think it is highly unlikely that there is a God.

    I know exactly what you mean I am living in the Bible Belt right now(temporarily) and it's insane how judgmental people here are.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  3. CGS

    CGS Shadow Lucario

    I have a question I haven't gotten a clear answer to.

    If "God" created us, who created him?
     
  4. The Master Chief

    The Master Chief A.K.A Tythaeus

    And to add to that if god is a supernatural being then why people refer to him as a white male? Doesn't make sense
     
  5. Thor72

    Thor72 Challenger

    Lol ya. My favorite though is the argument for black or white Jesus. He's from Jerusalem it's not that hard to figure out what color he was.
     
  6. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    The answer is nebulous because metaphysical, but there is an answer. It's something like saying that no physical thing can exist without Existence itself first being a precondition (in the same way, for example, ocean waves can't exist without the water giving them some 'thing' to exist as). Because of the way God is described (in the popular Western religions), he is by definition this Existence itself. And of course it makes no sense to ask what existed before existence, so God is like a metaphysical event horizon of Being past which it's impossible to see - in other words, it wouldn't be possible for him to have been created. Extrapolate to "eternal, absolute source of X, Y and Z," so on and so forth.

    Frankly, I find metaphysics extremely difficult to understand, so I can't do much to critique the content of such an argument. What we can say to such ones, though, is that logical validity, while a necessary condition for truth, is not on its own sufficient; there must also be empirical validity.

    Consider Zeno's paradox. You want to go sit on the couch, okay? So you start heading to the couch, but before you get all the way to the couch, you've got to first get halfway there, and before you get halfway there, you've got to get half of halfway there, and so on before that, ad infinitum. You're so busy trying to get infinitely half the distance to the couch that it is logically impossible for you to ever conclude you journey; you will never reach the couch! Fortunately for you, reality proves that you can indeed reach the couch, as evidenced by your currently sitting comfortably on it. So while it can be logically "proven" that you can never get to the couch, the logic doesn't actually tell us the truth about reality. The same would go for any logically sound metaphysical "proof" of God; without empirical proof alongside it, sound logic is just self-consistent ideas that don't necessarily translate into reality.
     
  7. Thor72

    Thor72 Challenger

    Correct me if I understand the zeno's paradox wrong but if you have a set distance to go then the halfway infinitum doesn't really apply because there is only so many "halfway points" that you can reach before actually reaching the couch. That is proven by 1. actually doing it, or 2. doing math. and If this is correct then the halfway infinitum doesn't apply to anything really because you always have to have a set distance in order to even establish a halfway point.
     
  8. CGS

    CGS Shadow Lucario

    How the bible is talked, there was life before him, so that's where I don't see how anyone can expect that 1 man created us and the world in "7 days". That parts a myth to me. If you read the bible, it'll says there was life before "God".

     
  9. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    What math do you have in mind?

    For example, how many points are there in this line: X________________Y? The answer is actually "infinitely many." You can divide any finite line into infinitely many infinitesimal points, including repeated division by two, or halving the distance. Because this is logically sound, we can conclude that to move from X to Y you have to traverse infinitely many points, and such a trip would take an infinity of time, meaning the trip would never end and you'd never reach Y. Zeno used this logical observation to hypothesize that motion was an illusion. (Yay philosophical history!)

    You're right, though, that we can prove his paradox doesn't mean we never actually reach our goals in real life. That's how we know neither logic by itself nor empiricism by itself is sufficient for truth.

    *A fun factoid - the smallest unit of distance measurement we know of today is the Planck length, equal to about 1.6×10^-35 meters, and this distance is currently impossible to measure with any equipment. It is a distance calculated from other equations and figures in physics, like the speed of light in a vacuum and such. It's so small, it's only able to be used and researched theoretically! And even if our technology were to progress by millennia in an instant, it's thought that there would still be no way to measure a distance smaller than the Planck length, just because of the way the universal laws are set up. All of this is very useful, pragmatically, but the above logic is still sound. =P

    I always thought it said something like, "In the beginning there was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God," and then later there was everything else. Can you be more specific? ^_^;
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
  10. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    Here's a link to some social science research a doctoral student in Canada is doing on atheism. He's trying to identify different general categories of atheism. As topics for classification research go, atheism is probably a fool's errand; there isn't much to classify, but I guess patterns could emerge just because there's a movement sprung up around atheism where similar people could gravitate towards one another. And to be honest, this doesn't look like particularly high-quality research - maybe because the researchers funded it out of their own pockets. =P

    But! It was interesting to read what subgroups they identified and see if I fit into any one more than any others. I think the IAA fits me best. What about you guys?
     
  11. ShinyPokemon inc.

    ShinyPokemon inc. The Lighting King

    Hello there. My name is Adrian I'm 14 years old and I'm a proud Atheist. I was on the fence about becoming one in 6th grade it wasn't till 8th grade where I made my decision to become a full fledged Atheist. Since then I feel more free happy and I no longer feel guilty about doing certain actions that is frowned upon my religious family. Both my parents accept that I'm an Atheist but still want me to learn more about the Bible to which I refused. My friends are very accepting about me being an Atheist and still treat me like I'm human. Lately I've been feeling lonely and reallywanted to talk to more Atheists. After deciding to explore Serebii forums I found your family and I would love to join you guys.
     
  12. R2J

    R2J R.I.P #31

    Don't really know what you'd call me. But...

    For sometime I've been doubting if God does exist. I refuse to follow religion or let it be in control of my life. I grew up in a baptist household. Over the past few years I've just lost hope. Don't really know at the moment.
     
  13. Darato

    Darato (o,..,o)

    You'd fall under Agnostic.

    Welcome all new members.

    How about a topic.

    How do you think religion will be viewed in the next 50 years?

    For me I think it will still be around, but in a lot smaller groups. I mean even today more and more people are becoming Atheist so if those numbers keep rising we'll end up as I said, even more so with all the people who keep saying God says the world will end on this date.
     
  14. R2J

    R2J R.I.P #31

    How do you think religion will be viewed in the next 50 years?

    Depending on how some people take it seriously, I'd say some may kill their self. Seeing how some think one man can predict the end. Such as the 12-21-12 thing, FaceBook lit up with Goodbye post. I believe the whole end of the world stuff is to get people to goto church.
     
  15. CGS

    CGS Shadow Lucario

    How do you think religion will be viewed in the next 50 years?​



    Lets see, more stupidity. More people taking things serious, people falling for the end of the world stuff. So I assume it's going to fall.
     
  16. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    I hope your hope isn't tied to God, R2J. There's plenty to be found in a naturalistic view of the world and its inhabitants. Sorry to hear about your Baptist upbringing (I mean no offense by that - just that I know that branch of Christianity can be pretty strict and engrossing. I'm sure it's not easy to speak about doubts in such an environment). But you're certainly welcome to any and all discussions here, regardless of your beliefs. I hope you learn, and teach, here. ^_^

    According to this guy's projections, in 50 years we'll be looking back on religion as a thing of the past. He gives it less than 30 years for religion to be defunct entirely. Critics, though, claim that the sheer reproductive fervor of the fundamentalists will keep the world populated with the faithful. I don't that argument is as simple as reporters describe it, but I don't agree with Dr. Barber either.

    I think, in just 50 years, we'll still be fighting some of the small legal skirmishes we're fighting now, between religious liberties and egalitarian justice. I would hope religion by then is well and truly viewed as a private, personal matter not to be trotted out in public to anyone's detriment. At the very least, I want us to be successful at keeping it out of the science classroom.
     
  17. R2J

    R2J R.I.P #31

    Well I have explored different religions in the past such as Juhova Witness, Jewish, and Muslim. But I started seeing how all the religions are all to one god, but beliefs in different ways. And with each religion having its on views, it leads to nut jobs. People thinking everybody should believe the way they do. But no...I just started thinking about how I was raised up on the baptist religion, plus I grew up with two Atheist brothers (Shadow1624) and older is 27. As I said, over the past few years, I've just lost hope. Mainly over the past year, family still drags me to church but haven't been involved with church activitys since I was a kid. The only reason most of my family don't know this is because they dis-own family members that don't believe the way they do.
     
  18. CGS

    CGS Shadow Lucario

    Pretty much, I'd be one of the Dis-Owned members. Oh well!

    Anyways, you get use to not seeing that side of the family.
     
  19. Profesco

    Profesco gone gently

    You know what's an amusing game? When you read news stories about "Christian persecution" in the US (when some not-necessarily-representative subgroup of Christians tries to push their specific theology into law, school curriculum, or public policy and a court rules that they can't do that), try to imagine how the same Christian group would behave when you replace their religion with any other religion.

    Here's a rare example that made it into real-life! Whereas we usually read all kinds of stories about Christian groups trying to force religion into the science classroom and are held back by secularists (and the US Constitution!), this was a case where a Christian group tried to hold religion back from the classroom - when it was Hinduism. (Although, in reality, the yoga was just exercise as part of a health and fitness program the school in question had adopted.) There are many, many more instances of Christian groups in the US affirming that their religion belongs in our schools than there are of other religious groups claiming the same of their own religions, or of Christians trying to stop them. It gives the distinct impression that these kinds of groups are not really defending religious liberty (as they conceive of it - incorrectly), but rather Christian dominion.

    So I've fallen into the little mental game where, whenever I hear about some new instance of Christians upset at being legally barred from putting Christian theology somewhere it doesn't belong, I re-imagine the issue replacing Christianity with, say, Islam, Hinduism or Satanism, and think about whether and how that difference would change the Christians' response.

    For instance, the Facebook page I linked to above is about the religious support for a public school district in Alabama that's organizing a "prayer caravan" to go to each school building and praise Jesus. So just imagine what kind of Facebook page these folks might make if, instead, the school superintendent was organizing a prayer caravan to go to every school and praise Mohammed. I obviously can't say for sure, but I'm thinking the same folks would not be liking that page. ^_^;


    Go ahead and try the game out for yourself!


    * I hope no one here needs to be reminded of this, but let's not have anybody posting unkind or unhelpful remarks on that Facebook page.
     
  20. CGS

    CGS Shadow Lucario

    Best of luck to them around Marshall and Madison County xD Dumbasses won't last. Anyways, I go to work, come back out for lunch and theirs this women putting CDs on cars like they were flyers. Church music, seems since all those dumbasses believe'd in the End of The World/12-21-12, church people can get away with doing that.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page