Atheist & Agnostic Family

[JohnMango95]

So this is all religions? Well then we would have less religious extremists. No fighting, because people worship God(s) differently. (man no religions would have saved a lot of people throughout history: the Jewish in WW2, Christians during the early reign of the Romans, many people during the crusades.) It would also be interesting to see how certain fields would advance. Currently, religions thrown upon some scientific experiments, but would that mean scientists could continue and advance quicker in these fields? Stem cell research, cloning, would all be able to carry on with less negativity towards them. (I acknowledge that religious people aren't the only people who disapprove)

What would those dedicated to religion do? Those who found religion to be the only comfort in life. If everyone else had turned their backs on religions would they do the same? Would they lose their purpose? Similarly, would people who otherwise would be saved by religion (I know of a dead beat alcoholic who got over it thanks to picking up a bible) not find a better path? As much as religion isn't anything big for me, it is for many other people.

another hypothetical point to investigate would be the question of if religion would stay forgotten permanently in a situation like this (of course if the original hypothetical states that religion is gone permanently, then the question is invalidated) or would smaller religions or cults crop up in areas that do not have access to the latest scientific knowledge or people that simply refuse to accept the fact that the main branch or sect of thier religion no longer exists.

 

[Darato]

I like all the points you all brought up. Nice seeing the different view points.


Something else that's been on my mind, but not really a topic, how does religion effect where you live?

Like here in Utah cause we have a high LDS (Mormon) population here we have them adding things to different things. Like we can't sale liquor in stores, restaurants that serve liquor need to have a blocker so it isn't seen, when same sex marriage was trying to become a thing here, the church kept putting out there view point son it in the news and why we can't have it. Just to name a few things

L.F.D.

 

[Mystic_Blaze]

Hmm to address the topic, I think the world is at a point where religion is no longer necessary. Religious institutions already served their purpose to society. In the past European abbeys and churches were centers of knowledge where the monks were basically the only educated people who could read and write. They collected knowledge and advanced science.

In the modern world religion hinders society and scientific discovery with religious organizations lobbying against things such as stem cell research, gay marriage & gay rights and cloning* simply because it conflicts with their theology. If religion were to disappear humans would not be able to base their morals on religion so there may be a period of time in which the world is chaotic. However I think it would benefit humanity in the long run with society being more inclusive and people having morals based on their own character and not on a religious doctrine.

And about how religion affects where you live, I'm from NJ (USA) and it doesn't have too much of an affect. There is religion ofcourse but it doesn't have a strong impact like being in a Mormon area.

*Might not have been the best or most appropriate examples but its all that came to mind.

 

[JohnMango95]

Well were i live currently isn't all that affected (Duluth MN), but i used to live in south carolina, and let me say for the record that in small cities/medium sized towns there are practically churches on every corner. not only that, but there is very low religious diversity where i live.

 

[Darato]

Nice to hear about the difference.

Funny to see how even when there is supposed to be a separation of church and state it doesn't work out that way, for one reason or another at times.

L.F.D.

 

[taeuknam]

^ welcome

So new topic

If over the next 20 years or so religion disappeared, how do you think the world will be?

Personally, I think for the most part wouldn't have a huge impact. They'd be a few with some of the things religions do, like charity events and things like that, but a few of them like the LDS church for example only helps you if your part of them. There's also the people who only don't do things like kill and stuff because they fear God, but I don't think that would have too much of an inpact because a lot more people kill in the name of God. People who get work within the church would also have trouble, but just no more than if companies go out of business.

L.F.D.

From an educational viewpoint, I think it would be so much better. Science in particular would be a lot more properly taught. Faith schools would disappear, which I see as a huge divisive force among little children, and subsequently the adults they will become. Universities will not have to be in the same category as Liberty, which, in my opinion, is an insult to higher learning.

 

[Koharu_Hinata]

May I join as an Agnostic Atheist?

 

[fitzy909]

From an educational viewpoint, I think it would be so much better. Science in particular would be a lot more properly taught. Faith schools would disappear, which I see as a huge divisive force among little children, and subsequently the adults they will become. Universities will not have to be in the same category as Liberty, which, in my opinion, is an insult to higher learning.

I agree. That it would help to not teach children about relgion when they are so young, as they cannot then decide for themselves whether they want to accept it or not. It just get ingrained into their minds. It hugely influences how these people will turn out. however, no religion would make our debates in philosophy lessons far less interesting.

 

[JohnMango95]

Nice to hear about the difference.

Funny to see how even when there is supposed to be a separation of church and state it doesn't work out that way, for one reason or another at times.

L.F.D.

yeah, it is pretty strange to see how religion (mainly christianity) has seeped into even the most non-religious lifestyles.

 

[Divine Retribution]

I noticed this thread a week or so ago, wasn't aware such a club even existed. I guess I'll join if you're alright with it.

By definition I'm an agnostic, but I guess I fall under the tooth fairy agnostic category. I will not say I know there is no god but then again I will not say I know there is no Santa, or Easter bunny, or flying spaghetti monster, because I don't. Absolutes, including absolute knowledge, do not exist in the human mind.

I try my best to base my world view on skepticism and evidence, and thusfar I have seen no evidence to support the existence of any deity, and can offer no belief until such evidence is presented. However, most theistic claims run contrary to what the evidence at hand indicates, and the nature of those claims are unrealistic and often contradictory, so I doubt that such evidence can even exist.

I have strong opinions against religion, but I notice this is a club dedicated to atheism and not necessarily anti-theism, so I will keep those to myself unless the discussion at hand makes it appropriate to do otherwise.

 

[Darato]

Welcome Divine Retribution.

This was on the news here a few days ago

http://fox13now.com/2015/01/22/mom-outraged-after-seeing-this-on-school-bus-brake-lights/

Was hoping to here thoughts on it.

Personally, I can see how if it's something you're against would bug you, but no reason to change cause isn't taking any rights away from you and no one is forcing you to use the school bus or look at it.

L.F.D.

 

[Mystic_Blaze]

Wow this woman is really over reacting. It was just a star shape, not necessarily a pentagram. And saying that if a cross isnt allowed the pentagram shouldn't be allowed is implying that it is put there for some satanic or "evil pagan"purpose. Though I do feel bad for her with the death threats and all, the worst she deserves is public ridicule.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Welcome Divine Retribution.

This was on the news here a few days ago

http://fox13now.com/2015/01/22/mom-outraged-after-seeing-this-on-school-bus-brake-lights/

Was hoping to here thoughts on it.

Personally, I can see how if it's something you're against would bug you, but no reason to change cause isn't taking any rights away from you and no one is forcing you to use the school bus or look at it.

L.F.D.

While I agree with your basic point I do disagree with your line of reasoning, because with that same logic you can justify putting anything on anything. Don't like the ten commandments being on public property? Just don't use those facilities.

Being as its payed for by my tax money, that bus belongs to me and everyone else who pays taxes, so I and (theoretically, I'm single, woohoo) my children should be taken into consideration as well. I assume this lady pays taxes, so her opinion counts too.

That said, I disagree that stars are religious symbols. If it was clearly a pentacle, I could maybe sympathize with her, but it's not. It's a star. Are we going to attack children's shape puzzles for having pentacles on them too?

And before I get strawmanned I don't necessarily think I personally should have a say in regards to that particular bus, because I will likely never find myself in that area, and if I did I doubt I'd have anything to do with a school bus. But this lady does live in that area and I'd imagine she's got kids who use that bus.

 

[fitzy909]

Well that's an interesting story. Although, a little light on detail.

First, that is just a star. I could assume it was symbolising many things, but to automatically assume that it is a pentagram, which as stated by the Wiccan is not necessarily bad, is a big jump. It may just be some custom lights that were put on because they look cool, like a car decal. Someone needs to find out more facts before accusing anyone. I can understand that she doesn't want a symbol on there if it can't be a cross, but again it probably isn't meant to symbolise anything. This isn't anything for death threats, but it also isn't that bad.

 

[JohnMango95]

Hmm... this sounds like a case of basic over-reaction to something of little to no significance. in fact, the whole automatic assumption that a simple star shape is some how associated with pagan activity is absolutely ludicrous. also the notion that the symbol should be a cross instead of a star is doubly ludicrous as the bus is public property and therefor should have no religious ties of any sort.

 

[Kiruria]

Welcome Divine Retribution.

This was on the news here a few days ago

http://fox13now.com/2015/01/22/mom-outraged-after-seeing-this-on-school-bus-brake-lights/

Was hoping to here thoughts on it.

Personally, I can see how if it's something you're against would bug you, but no reason to change cause isn't taking any rights away from you and no one is forcing you to use the school bus or look at it.

L.F.D.

Looking at that headlight image, it does kind of look like an upside-down pentagram when viewed from far away, but up close, it just looks like a bunch of dots in a pentagonal arrangement. I don't think this was intentional. Same thing with the swastika on the wrapping paper. You'd have to look pretty hard to find it - just looks like a general maze pattern otherwise. One might as well criticize all ships for having a Buddhist symbol (the eight-spoked wheel) on their helm, since it describes a faith that denies Christ as our one and only saviour.

As a Wiccan myself, I have to agree with what that other Wiccan woman said in the article, though. The reason why the pentagram is viewed as evil by most is because witchcraft and several pagan religions have been regarded in the Dark Ages as work of the devil, only because they didn't worship Jesus. Even satanists who still use an upside-down pentagram for fun is kind of mocking both sides. But hey, I won't complain if I see a cross on something, though I might have a problem if someone uses the pentagram as a symbol while committing some evil act.

And really, it seems that everyone who posts something that goes against the norm on the Internet and ends up going viral receives death threats... I wouldn't worry about those people, as those bullies are probably not gonna do much.

 

[Darato]

While I agree with your basic point I do disagree with your line of reasoning, because with that same logic you can justify putting anything on anything. Don't like the ten commandments being on public property? Just don't use those facilities.

There's still the matter of separation of church and state in that one.

And really, it seems that everyone who posts something that goes against the norm on the Internet and ends up going viral receives death threats... I wouldn't worry about those people, as those bullies are probably not gonna do much.

True. Hardy anyone follows though with anything they say in cases like this.


Going by this and Divine Retributio comment.

How do you feel about religious symbols being put on display in public.

Doesn't bug me personally, but it's a give and take thing. On government buildings and such don't think anything should be there because of the whole separation of church and state thing, but as for more out in public, if a church wants to donate something that's fine, but can't favor to just one religion. If the Christians want to put a display of The Ten Commandants in a public park and a Synagogue puts a Star of David next to it, and some Satanism put an Inverted Pentagram in the middle, and our people put a model of the FSM up, neither of group should be able to try to get the others taken down because they all paid for their own, and it's still there.

Also need to realize in December you will see a lot of religious symbols because of the time of year, but I still feel it's a matter of respect.

Every year it seems there is a case with people complaining about something or the other. I feel if a publicly owned place wants to display something that's their right, but there was a case here with a courthouse and a nativity scene; that's not really separating church and state, like we're supposed to have, with stuff like this.

L.F.D.

 

[JohnMango95]

There's still the matter of separation of church and state in that one.




True. Hardy anyone follows though with anything they say in cases like this.


Going by this and Divine Retributio comment.

How do you feel about religious symbols being put on display in public.

Doesn't bug me personally, but it's a give and take thing. On government buildings and such don't think anything should be there because of the whole separation of church and state thing, but as for more out in public, if a church wants to donate something that's fine, but can't favor to just one religion. If the Christians want to put a display of The Ten Commandants in a public park and a Synagogue puts a Star of David next to it, and some Satanism put an Inverted Pentagram in the middle, and our people put a model of the FSM up, neither of group should be able to try to get the others taken down because they all paid for their own, and it's still there.

Also need to realize in December you will see a lot of religious symbols because of the time of year, but I still feel it's a matter of respect.

Every year it seems there is a case with people complaining about something or the other. I feel if a publicly owned place wants to display something that's their right, but there was a case here with a courthouse and a nativity scene; that's not really separating church and state, like we're supposed to have, with stuff like this.

L.F.D.

actually, the religious symbols in public does bother me, but only if they're on public property. of course, people have the right to keep whatever religious symbol they'd like on private property. however, i don't think that religious symbols should be allowed in public buildings.

 

[Mystic_Blaze]

actually, the religious symbols in public does bother me, but only if they're on public property. of course, people have the right to keep whatever religious symbol they'd like on private property. however, i don't think that religious symbols should be allowed in public buildings.

Pretty much sums up my opinion. Public space is neutral & private space/property can do whatever it wants. Only thing is they have to obey the law (e.g having a bloody corpse on your lawn because it represents the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't a proper/legal religious symbol and shouldn't be out on display)

 

[taeuknam]

Hi guys. 2 things:

On religious symbols, they don't bother me personally. I mean, I somewhat see it as trivial, although I see how it could be representative of religious discrimination for some people. Also, I live in Canada, where the official religion is Anglican (yes, really!), so I guess I can't really complain about separation of church and state.

Secondly, I made it on Richard Dawkins' website! https://richarddawkins.net/2014/10/taeuk-nam-converts-2158/