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Aug 11th: XY&Z037 - The Finals! Ash VS Alan!!

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Navin

MALDREAD
I view it as his strongest team in the sense that they work well together and each member battlea in a certain style that it covers their shared weaknesses. Could a team of Pikachu, Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Infernape and Greninja beat them? Yes.

But in relation to that hypothetical team, there is no chemistry between those teammates except that they have all traveled alongside Pikachu. Like in real life sports, chemistry is important for teams to play well together and that is why they're his "ultimate (regional) team" since they all strive to push each other further along and to pick each other up. These six act like a family and they all continue on even if they don't have a shot at all.
Except this isn't a double or triple battle. These are all 1 v 1 battles. This depends entirely on the skill of the trainer. All of Ash's regional teams have type and form (aerial and ground-based) diversity, and unlike Paul, Ash relies on counterstrategy/improvisation rather than setting up weather, entry hazards, or other effects for rest of his team to exploit.

It's hard to justify "ultimate [regional] team" when Pikachu and (Sato)Smogonfrog dominate the show. It's sort of how people claim DP had the best regional team, even though by the end it was mainly Infernape doing most of the work and a bunch of others being steady, but not great.
 

AuraChannelerChris

It's potion time!
Anyone seen kinda shocked that Alan would send out Lizardon this early?
It's actually the second half...which means the battles before Charizard and Greninja will go by quickly.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
The rat got on his nerves apparently.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Except this isn't a double or triple battle. These are all 1 v 1 battles. This depends entirely on the skill of the trainer. All of Ash's regional teams have type and form (aerial and ground-based) diversity, and unlike Paul, Ash relies on counterstrategy/improvisation rather than setting up weather, entry hazards, or other effects for rest of his team to exploit.

It's hard to justify "ultimate [regional] team" when Pikachu and (Sato)Smogonfrog dominate the show. It's sort of how people claim DP had the best regional team, even though by the end it was mainly Infernape doing most of the work and a bunch of others being steady, but not great.
Except it's not like DP because if you look at it in DP in Ash's rival battle against Paul Infernape wound up getting 3 wins, while in this case for instance with the Kalos Team's match against Sawyer/Shota Pikachu only got 2 wins there and Greninja 1, and in this match against Alain It's extremely unlikely that Pikachu and Greninja are getting more then 1 win. From the way you seem to be making it sound, it sounds like Pikachu and Greninja are going the only ones to get win in the match against Alain, which I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that won't be the case.

You know it's funny first people were complaining about how when Greninja was a Froakie and Frogadier(more so when it was a Frogadier) that it wasn't getting enough focus, but now the moment that Greninja gets 1 win in a match suddenly it's "oh because Greninja got a win that means it's the Greninja show", you do realize that if the situation was with Greninja was truly the same as it was with Infernape then Greninja would have gotten 3 wins in the match against Sawyer and 3 wins in the match against Alain.

Which as we know against Sawyer Greninja only got 1 win, and it's extremely unlikely that Greninja would get 3 wins in the battle against Alain, in which it's probably only going to get 1 win there.

The way people are making it sound it sounds like Greninja is not allowed to have any wins or any form of focus because if it does somehow it suddenly screenhogging.
 
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Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Except this isn't a double or triple battle. These are all 1 v 1 battles. This depends entirely on the skill of the trainer. All of Ash's regional teams have type and form (aerial and ground-based) diversity, and unlike Paul, Ash relies on counterstrategy/improvisation rather than setting up weather, entry hazards, or other effects for rest of his team to exploit.
Basically this. Ash's battle style is very individualistic with little to no planning ahead of time. Most of Ash's Pokemons are very offensive and speedy, which compensates Ash's style of a more up-tempo battle. The only team synergy Ash needs is type balance, and that has nothing to do with chemistry.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Honesty=Infractions
You know what? I hope Unfezant smashes Talonflame into the ground, purely to prove that it's no slouch. I don't see why it's such a bad choice in comparison to all of the other bland regional birds they could've chosen from. At least we haven't seen the species battle a huge amount of times like we did with Staraptor..

I swear half the hate is purely BW related, even though no-one will admit it..
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
The rat got on his nerves apparently.
It'll probably be Alain's downfall. With Alain sending Charizard out early, it'll probably be weakened enough for Ash-Greninja to take out, seeming to come out fresh and ready to battle. Especially after a good quick attack to Charizard's stomach before going down.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
Except this isn't a double or triple battle. These are all 1 v 1 battles. This depends entirely on the skill of the trainer. All of Ash's regional teams have type and form (aerial and ground-based) diversity, and unlike Paul, Ash relies on counterstrategy/improvisation rather than setting up weather, entry hazards, or other effects for rest of his team to exploit.

It's hard to justify "ultimate [regional] team" when Pikachu and (Sato)Smogonfrog dominate the show. It's sort of how people claim DP had the best regional team, even though by the end it was mainly Infernape doing most of the work and a bunch of others being steady, but not great.
It has nothing to do with a double or triple battle. Look at the match with Sawyer. Hawlucha was defeated by Slaking and Talonflame came into the battle to pick up where he left off. While someone like Hawlucha uses his opponent's moves to his advantage to gain momentum and power, Talonflame uses its speed alone. In doing so, it overpowered Slaking and brought home the victory. Same case with Talonflame vs Clawitzer. The bird was defeated only for Pikachu to come in. In all of these matches no one has gone down easily for Ash's team as they've all taken hits and lasted. Of course, people will argue against it no matter what.

Now, how are Pikachu and Greninja stealing the show? Prior to evolving Greninja held next to no focus and it was mainly given to the birds and Goodra at the time with a little Pikachu sprinkled in after his staring in the first three gyms. But, from the fifth badge up until the ninja village episodes, the main focus remained on the three fliers and Serena's team. Now, in the League Pikachu has 2 wins and will be battling at least four of Alain's team. But, look at how he isn't getting the wins and Ash can say "Hey, Pikachu isn't working. Noivern will be better for Tyranitar." or "Hawlucha's speed is great for Weavile". Everyone is getting a shot to perform as a Team unlike past seasons where there was the Charizards or the Sceptiles. Greninja meanwhile has had only two battles in the entire League and Goodra has had more screen time since XYZ 30 than Greninja has in that same span.


So, a little anology for all you baseball fans on here:
Ash's team is a great pitching staff, without one piece they'll fail. If the starter doesn't pitch well then the rest of the staff is struggling to keep up.

Pikachu = starting pitcher. He's the most reliable member of the team. Someone you can call upon in any situation to be a stopper. He stared in the first 3 gyms before turning to a supporting role up until the League where he took out two of Sawyer's team, changing the tide of battle.

Hawlucha = Set-up man. Time and time again he's come through in tight situations to get the victory for Ash. Heliosk, Laverre City, Astrid, and now hopefully against Weavile.

Talonflame = Middle Reliver. The first pitcher you turn to when your starter is tiring. releiable and dependable where he can get leftys and rightys out at the same time. In the sense that Ash uses him in almost every gym match and is constantly using him in important situations in battle. Has shown to be able to beat Pokemon in both the sky and on the ground through it's speed and physical attacks.

Goodra = Long Reliever. Someone who can come in and give you three innings on a bad day. this
is mainly based around Goodra's bulkiness and how he can tank hits. Without this stopper than who does Ash use to stop powerful attacks?

Noivern = LOOGY (Lefty One-Out GuY). A situational pitcher who you bring in to get one certain batter out in a tight spot. Not the best, but he's able to get the job done when called upon. Case in point: battles with Metang, Doublade and Salamence where it lost one, won one and tied.

Greninja = Closer. the one the manager turns to in the toughest situation of any game, the last inning. With your team tied or holding a slim lead, using arguably your best pitcher to seal the win is a no-brainer. Same case with Ash using Greninja at the end against the strongest members of his opponents team.
 
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Markerz

Well-Known Member
I guess you could say a lot of the responses to Alain's revealed Pokemon have been.. unfezant.
 

EspNeon

Badge Collector
I think the main reason (for me anyway) that Ash's team actually looks credible for a team that has advanced into the Top 8 of the competition, is that the majority of the team have evolved, aside from Pikachu who likely won't evolve soon, and everybody has a decent array of moves. Nobody really looks like a push over or a stereotypical "fall guy". In Unova Ash used Scraggy, which had very little battle development, in the 3rd round against a Darumaka. Neither screams legitimate championship competition in my opinion. It's the same with Oshawott too. A first stage pokemon using basic moves that it starts with such as Tackle. They don't seem like credible threats to a tournament and more of a filler. Of course that doesn't mean it's Ash's best team.

My main gripe is that Alain is using an Unfezant. I really can't imagine Alain capturing a Pidove or a Tranquill or even using an Unfezant. It seemed more of a case of the writers including a Pokemon for an aerial battle since Ash's team is 1/2 flying rather than constructing a team based on the character.With Alain's link to Team Flare, I could imagine a Honchkrow or something associated with a villanous team possibly even a Crobat. As for the focus on Mega Evolution, I could even see an Altaria or Pidgeot since they have the potential to Mega Evolve. Unfezant just doesn't make sense to me.
 

FlorgesPower2

Anime fanatic
Unfezant you've got to be kidding me, what a disappointment...

Alain feels threatened enough by Pikachu to go Zard early?

You're throwing the match buddy, I know you're not interested in actually winning and all but still.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
So, a little anology for all you baseball fans on here:
Ash's team is a great pitching staff, without one piece they'll fail. If the starter doesn't pitch well then the rest of the staff is struggling to keep up.

Pikachu = starting pitcher. He's the most reliable member of the team. Someone you can call upon in any situation to be a stopper

Hawlucha = Set-up man. Time and time again he's come through in tight situations to get the victory for Ash. Heliosk, Laverre City, Astrid, and now hopefully against Weavile.

Talonflame = Middle Reliver. The first pitcher you turn to when your starter is tiring. releiable and dependable where he can get leftys and rightys out at the same time. In the sense that Ash uses him in almost every gym match and is constantly using him in important situations in battle. Has shown to be able to beat Pokemon in both the sky and on the ground through it's speed and physical attacks.

Goodra = Long Reliever. Someone who can come in and give you three innings on a bad day. this
is mainly based around Goodra's bulkiness and how he can tank hits. Without this stopper than who does Ash use to stop powerful attacks?

Noivern = LOOGY (Lefty One-Out GuY). A situational pitcher who you bring in to get one certain batter out in a tight spot. Not the best, but he's able to get the job done when called upon. Case in point: battles with Metang, Doublade and Salamence where it lost one, won one and tied.

Greninja = Closer. the one the manager turns to in the toughest situation of any game, the last inning. With your team tied or holding a slim lead, using arguably your best pitcher to seal the win is a no-brainer. Same case with Ash using Greninja at the end against the strongest members of his opponents team.
That is still not team "chemistry". Any of these Pokemon can be replaced by his reserves if he so chooses to. Just because Talonflame gets replaced by Charizard does not mean his other Pokemon will under perform. That is like saying "I want to use this so-so pitcher over a proven ace because the so-so pitcher has a better chemistry with this other alright pitcher".

I understand they did this to make the match more entertaining, but please stop calling this the most appropriate team Ash could have built.
 

Vivian

Well-Known Member
Pikachu is one of ash´s strongest pokemon, he tied with latios, beat regice, beat mega lucario, beat some pseudo legendary pokemon. Its makes sense if he gets most wins. Also, looking at Alain´s team, I think he didnt even caught all that pokemon maybe Lysandre just gave him Weavile and Bisharp, at least.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
That is still not team "chemistry". Any of these Pokemon can be replaced by his reserves if he so chooses to. Just because Talonflame gets replaced by Charizard does not mean his other Pokemon will under perform. That is like saying "I want to use this so-so pitcher over a proven ace because the so-so pitcher has a better chemistry with this other alright pitcher".

I understand they did this to make the match more entertaining, but please stop calling this the most appropriate team Ash could have built.
First off, who are you to tell me what I can and can't say. I had already admitted that Ash has much stronger Pokemon rotting away at Oak, and admitted that those aces of his would defeat this team.

Second, if you knew baseball, you would know switching into an ace in the middle of a game is a horrible idea since most starting pitchers don't have the mentality to enter the game mid inning. In teh rare case they are thrown in, it's as an emergency and usually before the inning starts so that they are comfortable in their mind frame.

And third, I never said it was the most appropriate team Ash could have built. I said it is his best Regional Team to date in the anime. No one has that feel of a fall guy like past regions with Pidgeotto, Totodile/Phanpy, Torkoal, Torterra and at times Buizel, Oshawott and Scraggy. This team looks to be the most competive when made with just the captures of the region they're competing in.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Pikachu is one of ash´s strongest pokemon, he tied with latios, beat regice, beat mega lucario, beat some pseudo legendary pokemon. Its makes sense if he gets most wins. Also, looking at Alain´s team, I think he didnt even caught all that pokemon maybe Lysandre just gave him Weavile and Bisharp, at least.
While it's true that Pikachu is strong that doesn't mean Hawlucha should be a fall guy again just so Pikachu can have two wins, giving Pikachu Bisharp is enough while Ash's other pokemon should get Alain's other pokemon as well. For instance Hawlucha should get Weavile, while Talonflame gets Unfezant, Noivern gets Tyranitar, Greninja gets Charizard, Goodra gets Metagross, and then Pikachu can get Bisharp. Plus considering Hawlucha didn't get any wins in the match against Sawyer while Noivern and Goodra got only ties there is literally no reason why they should be sacrificed just so Pikachu can have an extra win that in all reality it doesn't need.
 
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DotKU

Champion
I wasn't expecting to see Alain's whole team in this preview for just part 1 of the battle. It makes it even more weird when the summaries were so conservative with what they shared. But the same thing happened with hyping up the "6th member" and we saw where that lead us.

Speaking of expectations, I knew that this thread would be busy, but not spending 10 pages to complain about Unfezant busy lol. My opinions on it are yes it doesn't really fit Alain's theme, but in the end it was meant to serve as a fall guy so it won't really play a huge part in this battle.


Alain's team member:

Charizard

Metagross

Tyranitar

Weavile

Bisharp

Unfezant(Male)
Wow man spot on with this! I know I won't be doubting your claims anytime soon.

Greninja: winner and decider of the battle.
Pikachu: true MVP of the League.

And here everyone thought it'd be Greninja...
Lol yeah it's funny how it turned out in the end. I guess the writers justified all of this Pikachu spotlight by making him take a break in the gyms after Clemont.
 

WaterTypeWarrior

Well-Known Member
You know what? I hope Unfezant smashes Talonflame into the ground, purely to prove that it's no slouch. I don't see why it's such a bad choice in comparison to all of the other bland regional birds they could've chosen from. At least we haven't seen the species battle a huge amount of times like we did with Staraptor..

I swear half the hate is purely BW related, even though no-one will admit it..
You are my new favorite person on these forums.

Seriously, what's with the Unfezant hate? Personally, I welcome it as a Pokemon we didn't get to see much from back in BW. Plus, it was a pretty unexpected choice, and I kinda appreciate that element of surprise in Alain's lineup. Now I just wish Ash was using reserves even more, just to read all the complaints when any of his Unova Pokemon make an appearance.
 
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