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Aug 11th: XY&Z037 - The Finals! Ash VS Alan!!

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NitroLightningFlash

Well-Known Member
Really hope Pikachu, Noivern and Hawlucha get wins here in this first part (especially Noivern) and i think it may somehow end with Ash and Alain both having three Pokemon left at the end of this episode.

Wins:

~ Pikachu: Tyranitar, Metagross
~ Hawlucha: Weavile (didn't get a win against Sawyer)
~ Talonflame: None (because Noivern or Goodra haven't got any wins in the League yet, i feel Talonflame can afford to be the fall guy here-especially since Noivern never got to take part in any gyms)
~ Noivern: Unfezant
~ Goodra: Bisharp (really hope he does get a win against something otherwise Goodra would be an underwhelming long awaited teammate if he only tied to Slurpuff in the League of all things)
~ Greninja: Charizard (no doubt Ash'll win this time)

I don't really mind who beats who, as long as Ash wins the whole thing and Noivern and Goodra get wins during the battle :p

(Btw i don't hate Talonflame, i just feel he can stand to lose here since Hawlucha never got any wins against Sawyer, and the fact i'd rather Goodra and Noivern got wins here since all they've done so far (at least of what was shown of Ash's battles...) is tie against Slurpuff and Salamence respectively).
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Lovin' that Hoenn League throwback in the preview with Pikachu hanging onto Metagross. Thinkin' that'll be Pikachu's big win here.
I really hope Noivern finally gets some love here. As some others said, using his bat sonar to get past TTar's Sand Stream would be really cool.
Hope Goodra gets some quality wins too.

Its interesting though to not only see Pikachu used so much during the battle. But also to see Charizard out battling it in this ep. I'd figure Alain
would save Charizard for Greninja but maybe Pikachu is too much for Alain's team to handle. I'm starting to think that Charizard's early entrance
is in order to take out Pikachu early and then switch back once its gone. Although, assuming that is after Metagross comes in, that leaves Alain
with at most Bisharp and maaaaybe Unfeazant if it beats Talonflame. Pikachu has been putting in work this league though. Maybe Alain recognizes
it as a threat.

If I'm predicting the battle though I'm gonna say...

-Pikachu vs. Tyranitar (Pikachu recalled)
-Noivern vs. Tyranitar (Noivern)
-Noivern vs. Bisharp (Bisharp recalled)
-Noivern vs. Weavile (Weavile)
-Hawlucha vs. Weavile (Hawlucha)
-Hawlucha vs. Unfezant (Unfezant)
-Talonflame vs. Unfezant (Unfezant, recalled afterward)

FIELD CHANGE

-Pikachu vs. Metagross (Pikachu)
-Pikachu vs. Charizard (Charizard, recalled afterward)
-Goodra vs. Bisharp (Goodra)
-Goodra vs. Unfezant (Goodra)
-Goodra vs. Charizard (Charizard)
-Greninja vs. Charizard (Up for grabs)

The only hickup is that we see Ash send out Pikachu in the sponsor section and then we see Alan send out Weavile. They could be unrelated though, which is a common trick for these guys to fool us with. Otherwise, I pretty much agree, with the possibility that Talonflame vs. Unfezant might end up a tie.

Also, I can definitely see Noivern going down to Bisharp, instead of Bisharp being recalled before anything goes down (though both options at this point are possible). It would make sense for Alan to switch out Bisharp when Hawlucha comes in. Weavile would be an odd choice, since it shares the x4 weakness, but it (probably) has Ice-type moves to counter Hawlucha, so it's an equal odds match really.

What I'm guessing is that:

Waterfall-field:
- Pikachu vs. Tyranitar: Pikachu gets recalled
- Noivern vs. Tyranitar: Noivern
- Noivern vs. Bisharp: Bisharp
- Hawlucha vs. Bisharp: Bisharp gets recalled.
- Hawlucha vs. Weavile: Weavile
- Talonflame vs. Weavile: Talonflame
- Talonflame vs. Unfezant: Tie. Or Unfezant survives for Goodra to take down.
Grass-field:
- Pikachu vs. Metagross: Pikachu
- Pikachu vs. Charizard: Charizard
- Goodra vs. Charizard: Charizard is recalled.
- Goodra vs. Bisharp: Tie, or Charizard in the following match-up.
- Greninja vs. Charizard: Charizard.

Lol, Talonflame stealing Hawlucha's thunder yet again.. xD

Here's what I've gathered from the preview:

-Pikachu is facing Tyranitar, Metagross, and Charizard in this episode. Weavile has been presumed, but I believe that the end clips were just spliced together, considering that it seems like Ash was sending him out as if he hadn't fought yet.
-Other confirmed battles are Hawlucha VS Weavile and Talonflame VS Unfezant. I don't doubt that Hawlucha can thrash Weavile, but I am a little concerned for the Unfezant battle as a lot of people would prefer to see a draw.
-No Goodra or Greninja in the preview, yet all six of Alain's Pokémon are shown. Either he's doing a bit of switching, or he's in a bit more of a bind than he thought he'd be in against Ash.

Other notes:

-Bisharp is the Pokémon that Alain recalls for later. That spike thing you see behind Weavile is actually the part of Alain's hair that sticks up.
-Noivern goes down first, followed by Hawlucha. I'm hoping Noivern gets a win, but if he doesn't, at least have give a decent effort for someone else to get a victory.
-Alain will lose Tyranitar and Weavile in that order by the time the battle of the birds is happening.

Any thoughts?

You can also make out Bisharp's red shoulder pads. It definitely gets recalled.

Also, Noivern really should've learned Flamethrower with the way it gets matched up with Steel-types.. Doublade, Metang and Bisharp.. -.-

Who knows, or Pikachu beats Tyranitar, is called back. Bisharp takes Noivern down, Hawlucha enters and Alain switches out to Weavile.

That's actually possible as well.. Assuming that the sponsor-segment is just spliced together and Alan doesn't send out Weavile after Ash sends out Pikachu.

The weird part is that Alan has a healthy Metagross and Unfezant he could use to counter Hawlucha, yet goes for the x4 weak Dark/Ice-type. I get it, similar fighting-styles and it does have likely have Ice-type moves, but Unfezant is a superior choice vs. Hawlucha. Not to mention that Metagross should be able to do lots of damage to Hawlucha with a Psychic-type move - but is likely not chosen due to Hawlucha's agility.
 

tonikranjc

Active Member
Hmm.. maybe Pikachu actually doesn't get a victory after all... this is how it could turn out:
Battle Field: Rock
Tyranitar-Pikachu(Back)
Tyranitar(Back)-Noivern
Bisharp(Lose)-Noivern
Weavile-Noivern(Lose)
Weavile(Lose)-Hawlucha
Unfezant-Hawlucha(Lose)
Unfezant(Lose)-Talonflame(Lose)

Battle Field: Grass
Charizard(Back)-Pikachu
Metagross-Pikachu(Lose)/Metagross(Lose)-Pikachu,Tyranitar-Pikachu(Lose)
Metagross(Lose)-Goodra
Tyranitar(Lose)-Goodra
Charizard-Goodra(Lose)
Mega Charizard-Greninja: ???


Pikachu: Weakens(Maybe even paralyses) Metagross and Tyranitar and hurts Charizard with quick attack and Thunderbolt
Noivern: Makes Tyranitar retreat and knocks out Bisharp but then gets 1 hit K.O. from Weavile's ice attack which I assume is Blizzard or Icicle Crash
Hawlucha: Beats Weavile, although having trouble landing moves because of Double Team(maybe even miss High Jump Kick) and in the end loses to overpowered Unfezant
Talonflame: Gets rid of overpowered Unfezant, maybe reveals it's fourth move
Goodra: Since Pikachu weakened Tyranitar and/or Metagross Goodra knocks them out, but then loses to Charizard after it can't witstand any more attacks for Bide
Greninja: Fights Mega Charizard ofc and I'n really looking forward to the battle because we have no clue who will win and that makes it very exciting

UPDATE: If Bisharp really is recalled and Tyranitar lost it would be
Tyranitar(Lose)-Noivern
Bisharp-Noivern(Lose)
Bisharp(Back)-Hawlucha
Weavile(Lose)-Hawlucha
 
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Pteranodonte

Well-Known Member
Hmm.. maybe Pikachu actually doesn't get a victory after all... this is how it could turn out:
Battle Field: Rock
Tyranitar-Pikachu(Back)
Tyranitar(Back)-Noivern
Bisharp(Lose)-Noivern
Weavile-Noivern(Lose)
Weavile(Lose)-Hawlucha
Unfezant-Hawlucha(Lose)
Unfezant(Lose)-Talonflame(Lose)

Battle Field: Grass
Charizard(Back)-Pikachu
Metagross-Pikachu(Lose)/Metagross(Lose)-Pikachu,Tyranitar-Pikachu(Lose)
Metagross(Lose)-Goodra
Tyranitar(Lose)-Goodra
Charizard-Goodra(Lose)
Mega Charizard-Greninja: ???


Pikachu: Weakens(Maybe even paralyses) Metagross and Tyranitar and hurts Charizard with quick attack and Thunderbolt
Noivern: Makes Tyranitar retreat and knocks out Bisharp but then gets 1 hit K.O. from Weavile's ice attack which I assume is Blizzard or Icicle Crash
Hawlucha: Beats Weavile, although having trouble landing moves because of Double Team(maybe even miss High Jump Kick) and in the end loses to overpowered Unfezant
Talonflame: Gets rid of overpowered Unfezant, maybe reveals it's fourth move
Goodra: Since Pikachu weakened Tyranitar and/or Metagross Goodra knocks them out, but then loses to Charizard after it can't witstand any more attacks for Bide
Greninja: Fights Mega Charizard ofc and I'n really looking forward to the battle because we have no clue who will win and that makes it very exciting

UPDATE: If Bisharp really is recalled and Tyranitar lost it would be
Tyranitar(Lose)-Noivern
Bisharp-Noivern(Lose)
Bisharp(Back)-Hawlucha
Weavile(Lose)-Hawlucha

Talonflame fouth move was confirmed to be Razor Wind in M19. I already see Razor Wind vs Air Slash.
 

_Dog

Well-Known Member
The only hickup is that we see Ash send out Pikachu in the sponsor section and then we see Alan send out Weavile. They could be unrelated though, which is a common trick for these guys to fool us with. Otherwise, I pretty much agree, with the possibility that Talonflame vs. Unfezant might end up a tie.

Also, I can definitely see Noivern going down to Bisharp, instead of Bisharp being recalled before anything goes down (though both options at this point are possible). It would make sense for Alan to switch out Bisharp when Hawlucha comes in. Weavile would be an odd choice, since it shares the x4 weakness, but it (probably) has Ice-type moves to counter Hawlucha, so it's an equal odds match really.

What I'm guessing is that:

Waterfall-field:
- Pikachu vs. Tyranitar: Pikachu gets recalled
- Noivern vs. Tyranitar: Noivern
- Noivern vs. Bisharp: Bisharp
- Hawlucha vs. Bisharp: Bisharp gets recalled.
- Hawlucha vs. Weavile: Weavile
- Talonflame vs. Weavile: Talonflame
- Talonflame vs. Unfezant: Tie. Or Unfezant survives for Goodra to take down.
Grass-field:
- Pikachu vs. Metagross: Pikachu
- Pikachu vs. Charizard: Charizard
- Goodra vs. Charizard: Charizard is recalled.
- Goodra vs. Bisharp: Tie, or Charizard in the following match-up.
- Greninja vs. Charizard: Charizard.

Lol, Talonflame stealing Hawlucha's thunder yet again.. xD



You can also make out Bisharp's red shoulder pads. It definitely gets recalled.

Also, Noivern really should've learned Flamethrower with the way it gets matched up with Steel-types.. Doublade, Metang and Bisharp.. -.-



That's actually possible as well.. Assuming that the sponsor-segment is just spliced together and Alan doesn't send out Weavile after Ash sends out Pikachu.

The weird part is that Alan has a healthy Metagross and Unfezant he could use to counter Hawlucha, yet goes for the x4 weak Dark/Ice-type. I get it, similar fighting-styles and it does have likely have Ice-type moves, but Unfezant is a superior choice vs. Hawlucha. Not to mention that Metagross should be able to do lots of damage to Hawlucha with a Psychic-type move - but is likely not chosen due to Hawlucha's agility.

Could you care to tell why you think Ash will lose this thing?
 

NegaiFreak

Plus Ultra!
So will Noivern beat T-Tar or will Hawlucha beat him?

Likely either Pikachu or Noivern will beat Tyranitar. Ash is gonna have to find a way to counter Sand Stream, so he might as well do something with either of those two.
 
My Prediction for the Way This Battle is Going to Play Out:

Waterfall/Canyon Field:

Pikachu vs Tyranitar - After suffering significant damage, Pikachu will be recalled.
Noivern vs Tyranitar - Noivern Wins, after an intense battle. I feel that Pikachu will have dealt enough damage for Noivern to deal the finishing blow.
Noivern vs Bisharp - Bisharp Wins, at this point, I can see Bisharp being recalled.
Hawlucha vs Weavile - Weavile Wins, after a fierce fight with Hawlucha but not before taking a significant amount of damage. Looks like Hawlucha will be the fall guy for Ash yet again.
Pikachu vs Weavile - Pikachu Wins, I can see this happening as Weavile may have been somewhat tired out from its previous battle against Hawlucha.
Talonflame vs Unfezant- Draw. After their collision as seen in the preview, I can totally see a draw between these two.

So the Stadium Changes with 3 Pokemon left for each trainer.

Grass Field:

Pikachu vs Metagross: After a fierce fight, I can see Pikachu barely winning it's battle against Metagross. But at this point, Pikachu has suffered enough damage for Charizard to knock it out. Pikachu wins
Pikachu vs Charizard: Charizard Wins, without suffering much damage from its fight against Pikachu. Obviously, it doesn't Mega Evolve. It is then recalled.
Goodra vs Bisharp: Goodra Wins, using its Bide Strategy it used to draw with Slurpluff. Bisharp probably deals enough damage for base Charizard to OHKO Goodra.
Goodra vs Charizard: Charizard Wins, without much of an effort. It may receive a small amount of damage, but basically this battle is going to end quickly.
Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X: Ash-Greninja wins. Ash-Greninja will probably be hit with a Blast Burn of MCX, and will almost be knocked out, but then it will power up to its max and use it's Giant Fire Shuriken to attack MCX. MCX will be tired and have to recharge from it's previous attack, but tries to block the attack with Dragon Claw. Unfortunately for Alain, like Ash vs Paul (Infernape vs Electivire), Ash-Greninja's attack is going to break through the Dragon Claw, and connect with MCX. I can see an explosion happening and MCX will be standing having a stare down with Ash-Greninja before finally fainting, reverting to its base form.

Thus, without a doubt, Ash will be the winner of this fierce fight.
 
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PAndrews

Well-Known Member
Really hope Pikachu, Noivern and Hawlucha get wins here in this first part (especially Noivern) and i think it may somehow end with Ash and Alain both having three Pokemon left at the end of this episode.

Wins:

~ Pikachu: Tyranitar, Metagross
~ Hawlucha: Weavile (didn't get a win against Sawyer)
~ Talonflame: None (because Noivern or Goodra haven't got any wins in the League yet, i feel Talonflame can afford to be the fall guy here-especially since Noivern never got to take part in any gyms)
~ Noivern: Unfezant
~ Goodra: Bisharp (really hope he does get a win against something otherwise Goodra would be an underwhelming long awaited teammate if he only tied to Slurpuff in the League of all things)
~ Greninja: Charizard (no doubt Ash'll win this time)

I don't really mind who beats who, as long as Ash wins the whole thing and Noivern and Goodra get wins during the battle :p

(Btw i don't hate Talonflame, i just feel he can stand to lose here since Hawlucha never got any wins against Sawyer, and the fact i'd rather Goodra and Noivern got wins here since all they've done so far (at least of what was shown of Ash's battles...) is tie against Slurpuff and Salamence respectively).

Hang on, Talonflame gets no wins in favour of Noivern and Goodra because they don't have any, yet Pikachu, who already has 3 wins this league gets 2 more? Whats worse, against 2 Pokemon portrayed as pseudo legendary invincible powerhouses since Johto days.

Talonflame and Hawlucha have 1 win each
Goodra and Noivern have a tie each
Pikachu has 2 wins against Sawyer and the unoffical win, giving it 3 and took on half of Sawyers team
Greninja has 2 wins

In other words, Pikachu has done more then enough and the dragon duo are in desperate need for some wins. If anything give Hawlucha Weavile and Tyranitar, which makes sense since he has a 4x advantage over both and give Noivern the Metagross win (and some payback for its loss when it was a Metang)
I'm hoping Pikachu is merely a scout, gives Ash a feel of what that Pokemon can do and is then recalled so one of his Kalos mons can come in for the win. That way Pikachu is useful but doesn't hog all the wins again.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Hang on, Talonflame gets no wins in favour of Noivern and Goodra because they don't have any, yet Pikachu, who already has 3 wins this league gets 2 more? Whats worse, against 2 Pokemon portrayed as pseudo legendary invincible powerhouses since Johto days.

Talonflame and Hawlucha have 1 win each
Goodra and Noivern have a tie each
Pikachu has 2 wins against Sawyer and the unoffical win, giving it 3 and took on half of Sawyers team
Greninja has 2 wins

In other words, Pikachu has done more then enough and the dragon duo are in desperate need for some wins. If anything give Hawlucha Weavile and Tyranitar, which makes sense since he has a 4x advantage over both and give Noivern the Metagross win (and some payback for its loss when it was a Metang)
I'm hoping Pikachu is merely a scout, gives Ash a feel of what that Pokemon can do and is then recalled so one of his Kalos mons can come in for the win. That way Pikachu is useful but doesn't hog all the wins again.

The only way this would work is if Noivern hasn't fallen by the time Metagross is out. But he has. Noivern is the first down. He's either taking out Tyranitar, Weavile, or nothing at all. I'm pulling for Tyranitar.
 
Sorry for disturb you guys, but I don't understand where is "Noivern vs. Tyranitar" come from. I don't see it in the preview.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
Sorry for disturb you guys, but I don't understand where is "Noivern vs. Tyranitar" come from. I don't see it in the preview.

people just would like Noivern to get a win over something like a Tyranitar due to having an unimpressive record I believe people call it
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
It's the fact it only has 1 win for the entirety of it's existence on the show
That's Torkoal levels of bad. Then again it staggered a Zapdos for a little bit and Torkoal did the same to Registeel then went on to have a terrible battle record. XY is the new AG indeed.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
It's the fact it only has 1 win for the entirety of it's existence on the show

exactly, a pretty unimpressive record. Thank-you for being more specific with my point.

That's Torkoal levels of bad. Then again it staggered a Zapdos for a little bit and Torkoal did the same to Registeel then went on to have a terrible battle record. XY is the new AG indeed.

I think they're both awesome pokemon who deserve a good spot on Ash's team :D
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
ugh this is all why we should have seen a proper 3 vs 3 battle against Astrid. It could have been Noivern, talonflame and Hawlucha vs. Mega Absol, Pyroar and the psychic cat? They could have given both Noivern and Talonflame wins before one or both fall to Mega absol in which Hawlucha comes to save the day. It would make the win/loss thing in these final two battles less of a big deal. Ugh, eff you writers for the pointless episode that occured right before the league.

I mean if they did the same matchup as Ash vs Astrid in the movie, maybe he used pikachu, greninja and hawlucha with none of them fainting, or only pikachu fainting to reverse the wins/losses from that movie battle.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
exactly, a pretty unimpressive record. Thank-you for being more specific with my point.
I think they're both awesome pokemon who deserve a good spot on Ash's team :D
I was mostly joking. Yeah they have poor records but also impressive showings. I defo don't feel like any of Ash's Pokemon don't deserve to be on his team if that's what you thought I meant.
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Can't wait for my rant against Goodra when the episode airs and Noivern is the fall guy, Pokemon is straight garbage compared to Noivern with his horrid move set. Gonna be super mad. I'll be surprised if Talonflame wins against Unfezant tbh, I expected it to be the fall guy in at least one fight.
 
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