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Aug 11th: XY&Z037 - The Finals! Ash VS Alan!!

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jrizza88

Meteorite
Can't wait for my rant against Goodra when the episode airs and Noivern is the fall guy, Pokemon is straight trash compared to Noivern with his horrid move set. Gonna be super mad. I'll be surprised if Talonflame wins against Unfezant tbh, I expected it to be the fall guy in at least one fight.

yeah I thought this fight would be it. It still could be if Noivern and Hawlucha take out Weavile and Tyranitar. I think Bisharp could be the one to come in real quick to take out Noivern, with Hawlucha either having a tie to Weavile or just losing to Unfezant.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
I was mostly joking. Yeah they have poor records but also impressive showings. I defo don't feel like any of Ash's Pokemon don't deserve to be on his team if that's what you thought I meant.

no worries I knew what you meant :)
I agree with you!
 

Garbodor.

Well-Known Member
They should have renamed this episode "Pikachu vs the world" :D Our little rodent will hopefully truly shine in this episode, he deserves it.

Also, kind of surprised Alain bringing out his zard in the first episode. Man this episode could not come sooner! Can't wait.
 

playerking

Sick of dealing with idiots.
These are the two options for how I now see the first half of the battle going.

Pikachu VS Tyranitar (Pikachu wins)
Pikahcu VS Weavile (Pikachu gets recalled)
Noivern VS Weavile (Weavile wins)
Hawlucha VS Weavile (Hawlucha wins)
Hawlucha VS Bisharp (Bisharp wins, gets recalled)
Talonflame VS Unfezant (Draw)
Talonflame VS Charizard (Charizard wins, if the previous battle doesn’t end in a draw)
Pikachu VS Charizard (Charizard gets recalled)
Pikachu VS Metagross (Metagross wins (The conclusion will probably happen in the next episode))

Pikachu VS Tyranitar (Pikachu gets recalled)
Noivern VS Tyranitar (Noivern wins)
Noivern VS Weavile (Weavile wins)
Hawlucha VS Weavile (Hawlucha wins)
Hawlucha VS Bisharp (Bisharp wins, gets recalled)
Talonflame VS Unfezant (Draw)
Talonflame VS Charizard (Charizard wins, if the previous battle doesn’t end in a draw)
Pikachu VS Charizard (Charizard gets recalled)
Pikachu VS Metagross (Metagross wins (The conclusion will happen in the next episode))

And it's possible that Pikachu VS Weavile could be an edit to make it look like they were fighting each other and since I think Hawlucha might defeat Weavile, I kind of can't see Pikachu being recalled twice.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
These are the two options for how I now see the first half of the battle going.

Pikachu VS Tyranitar (Pikachu wins)
Pikahcu VS Weavile (Pikachu gets recalled)
Noivern VS Weavile (Weavile wins)
Hawlucha VS Weavile (Hawlucha wins)
Hawlucha VS Bisharp (Bisharp wins, gets recalled)
Talonflame VS Unfezant (Draw)
Talonflame VS Charizard (Charizard wins, if the previous battle doesn’t end in a draw)
Pikachu VS Charizard (Charizard gets recalled)
Pikachu VS Metagross (Metagross wins (The conclusion will probably happen in the next episode))

Pikachu VS Tyranitar (Pikachu gets recalled)
Noivern VS Tyranitar (Noivern wins)
Noivern VS Weavile (Weavile wins)
Hawlucha VS Weavile (Hawlucha wins)
Hawlucha VS Bisharp (Bisharp wins, gets recalled)
Talonflame VS Unfezant (Draw)
Talonflame VS Charizard (Charizard wins, if the previous battle doesn’t end in a draw)
Pikachu VS Charizard (Charizard gets recalled)
Pikachu VS Metagross (Metagross wins (The conclusion will happen in the next episode))

And it's possible that Pikachu VS Weavile could be an edit to make it look like they were fighting each other and since I think Hawlucha might defeat Weavile, I kind of can't see Pikachu being recalled twice.

I don't think Pikachu would be the fall guy in the Alain battle unless Ash loses this battle in general...
 

AuraKshatriya

Well-Known Member
I feel like Noivern will be the one to KO Tyranitar after withdrawing Pikachu. Recall that they emphasized in the magazine scans that Tyranitar makes use of its ability, Sand Stream. Besides the Special Defense boost it might acquire and general-purpose residual damage, the most obvious advantage of Sand Stream in the anime would be impairing the opponent's visibility. But Noivern can use echolocation via Supersonic to find its opponent no matter the obstruction, so it'd be well-equipped to deal with Tyranitar. Ideally Pikachu does minimal damage to it beforehand so Noivern can claim victory mainly for itself. Then, perhaps Noivern goes up against Bisharp, does some decent damage to it before being KO'd. Alain can switch after the KO to Weavile, and we know Pikachu faces it first. Perhaps Weavile outspeeds Pikachu, so Hawlucha comes out and KO's it. Then Hawlucha can deal some damage against Unfezant before going down, and Talonflame can draw with it.

....I still don't like how Noivern and Hawlucha don't really get full ownership over their victories here. Not to mention Hawlucha having the highest physical strength on Ash's team (barring Ash Greninja) still hasn't been properly showcased. This is a Pokemon that could equally match a Machamp's strength in its debut, yet we've never seen it fight any other Pokemon known for their raw brute strength since. Metagross would've been great for that, but oh well. At least him being Ash's third Pokemon to KO a Mega (on his own it seems, no less) is a testament to his strength (even if they should have just given him a decent 2-minute closing face-off like they did with Alain vs Remo >:V)

So my prediction for the matchups of actual significance are as follows (basically excluding Pikachu's encounters with Charizard and Metagross since I have no idea where they would fit. Though Pikachu really shouldn't be facing off against four of Alain's Pokemon, even briefly):

Pikachu VS Tyranitar - Pikachu is switched out for Noivern.
Noivern VS Tyranitar - Noivern wins.
Noivern VS Bisharp - Noivern deals some damage before being KO'd. Then Bisharp is recalled for Weavile. Pikachu is sent out next.
Pikachu VS Weavile - Pikachu is switched for Hawlucha after being outsped too significantly.
Hawlucha VS Weavile - Hawlucha wins. Alain sends out Unfezant.
Hawlucha VS Unfezant - Hawlucha deals some damage before being KO'd. Talonflame is sent out.
Talonflame VS Unfezant - Either Talonflame KO's Unfezant, or they draw.

...While I like the fact it's not just a back-and-forth and there's some neat switching in this battle (as opposed to the battle with Sawyer), Pikachu does not need to be sent out against Weavile. Usually after a Pokemon switches out it only returns when the opponent begins to sweep other team members. If they intend to use Pikachu as a scout and infringe upon the battles of others, they should at least have left Weavile entirely to Hawlucha.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical Optimist
I feel like Noivern will be the one to KO Tyranitar after withdrawing Pikachu. Recall that they emphasized in the magazine scans that Tyranitar makes use of its ability, Sand Stream. Besides the Special Defense boost it might acquire and general-purpose residual damage, the most obvious advantage of Sand Stream in the anime would be impairing the opponent's visibility. But Noivern can use echolocation via Supersonic to find its opponent no matter the obstruction, so it'd be well-equipped to deal with Tyranitar. Ideally Pikachu does minimal damage to it beforehand so Noivern can claim victory mainly for itself. Then, perhaps Noivern goes up against Bisharp, does some decent damage to it before being KO'd. Alain can switch after the KO to Weavile, and we know Pikachu faces it first. Perhaps Weavile outspeeds Pikachu, so Hawlucha comes out and KO's it. Then Hawlucha can deal some damage against Unfezant before going down, and Talonflame can draw with it.

....I still don't like how Noivern and Hawlucha don't really get full ownership over their victories here. Not to mention Hawlucha having the highest physical strength on Ash's team (barring Ash Greninja) still hasn't been properly showcased. This is a Pokemon that could equally match a Machamp's strength in its debut, yet we've never seen it fight any other Pokemon known for their raw brute strength since. Metagross would've been great for that, but oh well. At least him being Ash's third Pokemon to KO a Mega (on his own it seems, no less) is a testament to his strength (even if they should have just given him a decent 2-minute closing face-off like they did with Alain vs Remo >:V)

So my prediction for the matchups of actual significance are as follows (basically excluding Pikachu's encounters with Charizard and Metagross since I have no idea where they would fit. Though Pikachu really shouldn't be facing off against four of Alain's Pokemon, even briefly):

Pikachu VS Tyranitar - Pikachu is switched out for Noivern.
Noivern VS Tyranitar - Noivern wins.
Noivern VS Bisharp - Noivern deals some damage before being KO'd. Then Bisharp is recalled for Weavile. Pikachu is sent out next.
Pikachu VS Weavile - Pikachu is switched for Hawlucha after being outsped too significantly.
Hawlucha VS Weavile - Hawlucha wins. Alain sends out Unfezant.
Hawlucha VS Unfezant - Hawlucha deals some damage before being KO'd. Talonflame is sent out.
Talonflame VS Unfezant - Either Talonflame KO's Unfezant, or they draw.

...While I like the fact it's not just a back-and-forth and there's some neat switching in this battle (as opposed to the battle with Sawyer), Pikachu does not need to be sent out against Weavile. Usually after a Pokemon switches out it only returns when the opponent begins to sweep other team members. If they intend to use Pikachu as a scout and infringe upon the battles of others, they should at least have left Weavile entirely to Hawlucha.

I believe you should leave out the Pikachu vs Weavile battle as we don't know for sure that it happens. I am thinking it was a two scenes that don't actually go after each other to confuse us. That way Hawlucha can have that battle all to himself.
 

TheMarvelMC

Kalos League Victor!
Pikachu took on Clawitzer, Aegislash, and Sceptile against Shota.
Pikachu's taking on Tyranitar, Metagross, and Charizard against Alain (and maybe Weavile).

Geez, calm down Pikachu. We get that you're upset about being sidelined for the second half of XY, but taking on half of both rival's teams INCLUDING their aces is a bit much. Still, I do enjoy some "Peak"achu action. I'm just hoping that all the switching is done due to strategy, rather than just 'cause.
 

Omegaz

Captain Amourica
Pikachu took on Clawitzer, Aegislash, and Sceptile against Shota.
Pikachu's taking on Tyranitar, Metagross, and Charizard against Alain (and maybe Weavile).

Geez, calm down Pikachu. We get that you're upset about being sidelined for the second half of XY, but taking on half of both rival's teams INCLUDING their aces is a bit much. Still, I do enjoy some "Peak"achu action. I'm just hoping that all the switching is done due to strategy, rather than just 'cause.

I'd say it's fair that pikachu plays a big part. He's been Ash's main Pokemon and he deserves to get some credit for Ash's first league championship.
 

deoxysdude94

Meme Historian
from the looks of things...

either Ash is going to kick some serious ***, the entire second part is gonna be Ash greninja vs. mega charizard, or the more the likely (PLEASE don't be so)...

Team Flare intterupts part 2 and Ash never gets 1st in the pokemon league
 

Janovy

Banned
Anyone else hoping Pikachu takes down at least two of Alain's Pokemon?

Pikachu hasn't been all that prominent in important battles in XY (he was like in four gym battles, the first three and the last one) and while I do realize the true moment of glory will go to Ash-Greninja, I hope Pikachu deals some serious damage to Alain's team.
 

TheMarvelMC

Kalos League Victor!
Anyone else hoping Pikachu takes down at least two of Alain's Pokemon?

I am, but him taking out two Pseudo's might be a bit much. I'd rather Noivern or Goodra take one of the two, but if we're looking at XY only (like the writers for some reason), then yes. Pikachu is DEFINITELY deserving of taking out two pokemon. If the preview is anything to go by, Alain might be resorting to the Zard to take care of it, seeing as though he can't seem to put it down throughout their battle.
 

Janovy

Banned
I am, but him taking out two Pseudo's might be a bit much. I'd rather Noivern or Goodra take one of the two, but if we're looking at XY only (like the writers for some reason), then yes. Pikachu is DEFINITELY deserving of taking out two pokemon. If the preview is anything to go by, Alain might be resorting to the Zard to take care of it, seeing as though he can't seem to put it down throughout their battle.
I love that idea. Alain being forced to resort to Charizard to beat Pikachu lol
 

Navin

MALDREAD
The amount of mental gymnastics here in trying to figure out who is battling whom. Tapu Koko.


Why should stats matter for a Pokemon? This isn't the games, they made a Magikarp pretty strong back in DP. Anyway, Some of those Pokemon have better records because they were around a lot longer than Lucha and Talonflame so of course their records would differ. The fact that Slaking who was just a counter for Hawlucha got hurt quite a bit showed that he could have won if Counter wasn't called when it was.

I'm not talking about game stats. I'm talking about their natural 'stats' (the speed, strength, and stamina they showed throughout the show). Sorry if that wasn't clear.

My point in all of this is the "chemistry" among team members becomes irrelevant when instead of Lucha + Smogonbird tag-teaming to defeat Slaking, Ash could have sent any one of his tier-1s or tier-2s to just solo the beast, and save his second Pokémon from exertion. That's what I'm saying - Ash obviously always has diverse type and form based teams in all the regions, and since he doesn't rely on status boosters, weather, entry hazards/moves, this aspect becomes downplayed.

Pikachu stared in the first three gyms and then took a back seat right after. His large record was due to his early region usage while the others were being caught up to him which is how it should be. All throughout the region we got to see Talonflame and Hawlucha get plenty of spotlight that was on equal if not more amounts than Greninja up until Anistar. Heck, Talonflame co-stared in Anistar because no one can say he didn't provide a big help through the strategies Ash used with it. And Hawlucha stared in Laverre, a Gym he was weak to and got a win against Wulfric and a Mega. Noivern it was expected since he was a baby, but once he evolved it got a few battles before the League. Goodra made sense, he wanted to become strong and he did and showed it during the battle with Clemont. Having achieved his goal, Ash left him to defend his friends and such he grew rusty. Not to mention the only move that could work on Slurpuff was Bide so it made sense for a double KO. Plus, no Pokemon has earned more than one win at the 6th-8th gyms unlike how Infernape took at least 2 wins in his gyms.
But, no matter what facts are shown for an evenly distributed performances, people just want to call this the Pikachu and Greninja show because Pikachu stared in the first three gyms and Greninja stared in a six episode arc and getting two wins at the league.

Noibaby barely got any battles before it evolved. And then two battles before the league. Barney was gone in 15 episodes. Pikachu carried the first third of XY, and Smogonfrog has carried the final third. And now both are carrying the main load at this league. If you're going to fault AG and DP for "uneven focus" and therefore say they don't fit the true "team" concept, then let's not pretend XY has been perfect at this either.

---

Anyone else hoping Pikachu takes down at least two of Alain's Pokemon?

Pikachu hasn't been all that prominent in important battles in XY (he was like in four gym battles, the first three and the last one) and while I do realize the true moment of glory will go to Ash-Greninja, I hope Pikachu deals some serious damage to Alain's team.

Pikachu's role should be a hit-and-run nuisance who weakens Alain's entire team, before other members of Ash's team take them out. I don't actually want to see him earning 2 or 3 wins in this full battle.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Too old for your rubbish..
Anyone else hoping Pikachu takes down at least two of Alain's Pokemon?

Pikachu hasn't been all that prominent in important battles in XY (he was like in four gym battles, the first three and the last one) and while I do realize the true moment of glory will go to Ash-Greninja, I hope Pikachu deals some serious damage to Alain's team.

That's exactly what I'm hoping for. Pikachu defeats two Pokemon, whilst Noivern, Hawlucha and Goodra get one each and then Greninja takes on Charizard for the finale. Talonflame was the only Pokemon besides Pikachu and Greninja to actually defeat something of Sawyer's, along with being heavily used throughout the gyms, so I don't mind it being the fall guy here. In fact I'm hoping that Unfezant floors it to prove it isn't the pushover within Alain's team..
 

PAndrews

Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I'm hoping for. Pikachu defeats two Pokemon, whilst Noivern, Hawlucha and Goodra get one each and then Greninja takes on Charizard for the finale. Talonflame was the only Pokemon besides Pikachu and Greninja to actually defeat something of Sawyer's, along with being heavily used throughout the gyms, so I don't mind it being the fall guy here. In fact I'm hoping that Unfezant floors it to prove it isn't the pushover within Alain's team..

So Talonflame gets a loss since he already got a win against Sawyer, yet Pikachu, who had 2 wins against Sawyer gets 2 more here? If anyone is overused and already in possession of too many wins and uses, its Pikachu

What I'm hoping is Pikachu gets recalled in each battle and only serves as a scout and as such ends up with no wins at all while the others get a win each with Goodra or Hawlucha having 2
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I sort of secretly think this will end up like Ash vs the orange islands champion battle, where Ash has 4 pokemon remaining against the ace. Charizard will make quick work of Talonflame, perhaps Pikachu gets in a good hit or two and then loses, and maybe Goodra the same?


I think it is weird that people say pikachu was sort of sidelined. It only feels like that between the 7th and 8th gym badges, but during the first half of XY he hogged all the battles and starred in 3 gyms in a row and was only the fall guy in the first gym that didn't count since he stared in the rematch...

As for anything else to say regarding pikachu, I think it's been portrayed pretty well in XY and ok during XYZ..

That's exactly what I'm hoping for. Pikachu defeats two Pokemon, whilst Noivern, Hawlucha and Goodra get one each and then Greninja takes on Charizard for the finale. Talonflame was the only Pokemon besides Pikachu and Greninja to actually defeat something of Sawyer's, along with being heavily used throughout the gyms, so I don't mind it being the fall guy here. In fact I'm hoping that Unfezant floors it to prove it isn't the pushover within Alain's team..

so essentially after that class you want to see his Unfezant come out on top? I guess that could work, although i'd like to see Goodra take it out since Noivern and Hawlucha are both KO'd already.


So Talonflame gets a loss since he already got a win against Sawyer, yet Pikachu, who had 2 wins against Sawyer gets 2 more here? If anyone is overused and already in possession of too many wins and uses, its Pikachu

What I'm hoping is Pikachu gets recalled in each battle and only serves as a scout and as such ends up with no wins at all while the others get a win each with Goodra or Hawlucha having 2

NO, that would mean that Noivern most likely gets zero wins since the screen shows Hawlucha and Noivern out by the time Talonflame fights Unfezant...

I think Pikachu deserves one good win, and since Noivern most likely won't fight it, then Pikachu deserves that win. I agree with Pikachu not taking out more than one pokemon this battle. Perhaps Noivern takes out Tyranitar, Hawlucha takes out Weavile, and then they both fall to I guess some of the other people. I do think it is crazy how we see Alain's entire team in the preview...
 
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Ronathin

Well-Known Member
Ignoring the context of previous battles, If this actually ends up being Ash's first league victory, having Pikachu get no KOs is basically a spit in the face. You can't have Ash's only Pokemon to continue to each region play a scouting role.
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
Ignoring the context of previous battles, If this actually ends up being Ash's first league victory, having Pikachu get no KOs is basically a spit in the face. You can't have Ash's only Pokemon to continue to each region play a scouting role.

exactly. Pikachu I think will pull through against Metagross, which causes Alain to use Charizard because I wonder if Metagross is the 2nd strongest on the team.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Too old for your rubbish..
So Talonflame gets a loss since he already got a win against Sawyer, yet Pikachu, who had 2 wins against Sawyer gets 2 more here? If anyone is overused and already in possession of too many wins and uses, its Pikachu

What I'm hoping is Pikachu gets recalled in each battle and only serves as a scout and as such ends up with no wins at all while the others get a win each with Goodra or Hawlucha having 2

The whole reason Pikachu deserves these victories, at least in my opinion, is not only because he was basically benched for the whole latter half of XY, but also because this is Ash's highest ranking league battle ever and Pikachu, as his starter, is meant to be his strongest and most reliable companion. If he didn't get two victories here then it'd be complete bull, especially since Greninja, a regional Pokemon, is getting the starring role..
 
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