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Aug 11th: XY&Z037 - The Finals! Ash VS Alan!!

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Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
So, a little anology for all you baseball fans on here:
Ash's team is a great pitching staff, without one piece they'll fail. If the starter doesn't pitch well then the rest of the staff is struggling to keep up.

Pikachu = starting pitcher. He's the most reliable member of the team. Someone you can call upon in any situation to be a stopper

Hawlucha = Set-up man. Time and time again he's come through in tight situations to get the victory for Ash. Heliosk, Laverre City, Astrid, and now hopefully against Weavile.

Talonflame = Middle Reliver. The first pitcher you turn to when your starter is tiring. releiable and dependable where he can get leftys and rightys out at the same time. In the sense that Ash uses him in almost every gym match and is constantly using him in important situations in battle. Has shown to be able to beat Pokemon in both the sky and on the ground through it's speed and physical attacks.

Goodra = Long Reliever. Someone who can come in and give you three innings on a bad day. this
is mainly based around Goodra's bulkiness and how he can tank hits. Without this stopper than who does Ash use to stop powerful attacks?

Noivern = LOOGY (Lefty One-Out GuY). A situational pitcher who you bring in to get one certain batter out in a tight spot. Not the best, but he's able to get the job done when called upon. Case in point: battles with Metang, Doublade and Salamence where it lost one, won one and tied.

Greninja = Closer. the one the manager turns to in the toughest situation of any game, the last inning. With your team tied or holding a slim lead, using arguably your best pitcher to seal the win is a no-brainer. Same case with Ash using Greninja at the end against the strongest members of his opponents team.

That is still not team "chemistry". Any of these Pokemon can be replaced by his reserves if he so chooses to. Just because Talonflame gets replaced by Charizard does not mean his other Pokemon will under perform. That is like saying "I want to use this so-so pitcher over a proven ace because the so-so pitcher has a better chemistry with this other alright pitcher".

I understand they did this to make the match more entertaining, but please stop calling this the most appropriate team Ash could have built.
 

Vivian

Well-Known Member
Pikachu is one of ash´s strongest pokemon, he tied with latios, beat regice, beat mega lucario, beat some pseudo legendary pokemon. Its makes sense if he gets most wins. Also, looking at Alain´s team, I think he didnt even caught all that pokemon maybe Lysandre just gave him Weavile and Bisharp, at least.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
That is still not team "chemistry". Any of these Pokemon can be replaced by his reserves if he so chooses to. Just because Talonflame gets replaced by Charizard does not mean his other Pokemon will under perform. That is like saying "I want to use this so-so pitcher over a proven ace because the so-so pitcher has a better chemistry with this other alright pitcher".

I understand they did this to make the match more entertaining, but please stop calling this the most appropriate team Ash could have built.

First off, who are you to tell me what I can and can't say. I had already admitted that Ash has much stronger Pokemon rotting away at Oak, and admitted that those aces of his would defeat this team.

Second, if you knew baseball, you would know switching into an ace in the middle of a game is a horrible idea since most starting pitchers don't have the mentality to enter the game mid inning. In teh rare case they are thrown in, it's as an emergency and usually before the inning starts so that they are comfortable in their mind frame.

And third, I never said it was the most appropriate team Ash could have built. I said it is his best Regional Team to date in the anime. No one has that feel of a fall guy like past regions with Pidgeotto, Totodile/Phanpy, Torkoal, Torterra and at times Buizel, Oshawott and Scraggy. This team looks to be the most competive when made with just the captures of the region they're competing in.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Pikachu is one of ash´s strongest pokemon, he tied with latios, beat regice, beat mega lucario, beat some pseudo legendary pokemon. Its makes sense if he gets most wins. Also, looking at Alain´s team, I think he didnt even caught all that pokemon maybe Lysandre just gave him Weavile and Bisharp, at least.

While it's true that Pikachu is strong that doesn't mean Hawlucha should be a fall guy again just so Pikachu can have two wins, giving Pikachu Bisharp is enough while Ash's other pokemon should get Alain's other pokemon as well. For instance Hawlucha should get Weavile, while Talonflame gets Unfezant, Noivern gets Tyranitar, Greninja gets Charizard, Goodra gets Metagross, and then Pikachu can get Bisharp. Plus considering Hawlucha didn't get any wins in the match against Sawyer while Noivern and Goodra got only ties there is literally no reason why they should be sacrificed just so Pikachu can have an extra win that in all reality it doesn't need.
 
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DotKU

Champion
I wasn't expecting to see Alain's whole team in this preview for just part 1 of the battle. It makes it even more weird when the summaries were so conservative with what they shared. But the same thing happened with hyping up the "6th member" and we saw where that lead us.

Speaking of expectations, I knew that this thread would be busy, but not spending 10 pages to complain about Unfezant busy lol. My opinions on it are yes it doesn't really fit Alain's theme, but in the end it was meant to serve as a fall guy so it won't really play a huge part in this battle.


Alain's team member:

Charizard

Metagross

Tyranitar

Weavile

Bisharp

Unfezant(Male)

Wow man spot on with this! I know I won't be doubting your claims anytime soon.

Greninja: winner and decider of the battle.
Pikachu: true MVP of the League.

And here everyone thought it'd be Greninja...

Lol yeah it's funny how it turned out in the end. I guess the writers justified all of this Pikachu spotlight by making him take a break in the gyms after Clemont.
 

WaterTypeWarrior

Well-Known Member
You know what? I hope Unfezant smashes Talonflame into the ground, purely to prove that it's no slouch. I don't see why it's such a bad choice in comparison to all of the other bland regional birds they could've chosen from. At least we haven't seen the species battle a huge amount of times like we did with Staraptor..

I swear half the hate is purely BW related, even though no-one will admit it..

You are my new favorite person on these forums.

Seriously, what's with the Unfezant hate? Personally, I welcome it as a Pokemon we didn't get to see much from back in BW. Plus, it was a pretty unexpected choice, and I kinda appreciate that element of surprise in Alain's lineup. Now I just wish Ash was using reserves even more, just to read all the complaints when any of his Unova Pokemon make an appearance.
 

nickdt

Well-Known Member
So.... i was right with the flying type match-up for Talonflame. Only called the wrong Pokemon. Expected Ash much when Noivern got to battle Salamence.

Tyranitar seems to be the fall guy on Alains team. That we didn't saw Goodra, makes me believe it will be the fall guy on Ash team, unless Ash pulls off a Cameron.
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
The Talonflame vs Unfezant bit is beautifully animated in the preview. Hope Flame snags a win.

The switch shenanigans with Pikachu is real though. Little guy had enough of being sidelined during the final half of XY.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
First off, who are you to tell me what I can and can't say. I had already admitted that Ash has much stronger Pokemon rotting away at Oak, and admitted that those aces of his would defeat this team.

Second, if you knew baseball, you would know switching into an ace in the middle of a game is a horrible idea since most starting pitchers don't have the mentality to enter the game mid inning. In teh rare case they are thrown in, it's as an emergency and usually before the inning starts so that they are comfortable in their mind frame.

And third, I never said it was the most appropriate team Ash could have built. I said it is his best Regional Team to date in the anime. No one has that feel of a fall guy like past regions with Pidgeotto, Totodile/Phanpy, Torkoal, Torterra and at times Buizel, Oshawott and Scraggy. This team looks to be the most competive when made with just the captures of the region they're competing in.

I never said what you can and can't say, unless if you consider my last sentence as that, in which case I didn't mean it that way. I'm just tired of this whole "The magazine said it so its true" statement.

Pokemon battle is completely different from baseball. Pokemons don't change feelings when they are sent out first or last. Ash does not have a designated lead, mid-game or end-game and just adapts to the situation in hand.

As for the best regional team, that is always up for debate, but I would put it on par with Sinnoh and Hoenn.
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
So.... i was right with the flying type match-up for Talonflame. Only called the wrong Pokemon. Expected Ash much when Noivern got to battle Salamence.

Tyranitar seems to be the fall guy on Alains team. That we didn't saw Goodra, makes me believe it will be the fall guy on Ash team, unless Ash pulls off a Cameron.

Difference here is Cameron only had five Pokemon on him during the battle, while Ash has a full team.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
I never said what you can and can't say, unless if you consider my last sentence as that, in which case I didn't mean it that way. I'm just tired of this whole "The magazine said it so its true" statement.

Pokemon battle is completely different from baseball. Pokemons don't change feelings when they are sent out first or last. Ash does not have a designated lead, mid-game or end-game and just adapts to the situation in hand.

As for the best regional team, that is always up for debate, but I would put it on par with Sinnoh and Hoenn.

Alright, I was under the impression of you saying "enough of this topic. Stop bringing it up, you can't talk about it." Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

I know, I was just trying to paint a picture/idea of how the Kalos team works so well together.

Ehh, they both had major record issues especially in the 2nd half of Sinnoh. Pretty much if you weren't Pikachu, Infernapr or Gliscor you didn't matter by the 6th gym. Especially Torterra who got turned into a fall guy every battle he was in pretty much. Hoenn though, it was more balanced, but Torkoal was always a fall guy and most of the main focus went to Swellow and Sceptile with Corphish getting whatever wa left over. Yes, Noivern has had a lack of battles as well, but it had hatched form an egg shortly before the 7th gym badge.
 

RiceballsDonut

New Member
I wasn't expecting Alain's other Pokemon to be all that impressive. He's the kind of trainer who mostly focuses on his starter Pokemon. And I'm guessing by him throwing out Zard early on, his over reliance on Charizard will be his downfall. Turning his biggest strength into a weakness.
 

MegaSalamence05

Well-Known Member
Pikachu vs. Tyranitar
vs. Weavile
vs. Metagross
vs. Charizard

Talonflame vs. Unfezant
Hawlucha vs. Weavile
Noivern vs. Bisharp

The order is what I want to know. Pikachu is the first one out for Ash and Tyranitar is for Alain. I just want to know if its a recall, so the order for the first half of the battle. The second part of the battle is easy, whoever ends the first part of the battle will finish their battle similar to Pikachu/Aegislash. Goodra is first and Greninja is last for Ash. 4v6 in this part and that part of it all is surprising. Pikachu is the star of the first half of the battle as he started out with Pikachu and that's the way it should this is Ash's first finals appearance I don't care about a win or loss. I'm just happy that he's made it this far as its something different does it sound familiar folks, I'm totally behind Goodra because its something different and with his finals appearance than its something different. If the possibility that Ash does lose than I wouldn't be sad but if he wins than we're fine. Let the games begin it's going to be an amazing finals. As long as part 2 isn't shortened for the TF Arc to fully be put into place that's what I'm concerned about fully right now. As long as I get my slugfest between Ash Greninja and Mega Charizard X and its confirmed that's its a slugfest. Break it down into sections for the final battle, as it might give Ash the victory.
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
I wasn't expecting Alain's other Pokemon to be all that impressive. He's the kind of trainer who mostly focuses on his starter Pokemon. And I'm guessing by him throwing out Zard early on, his over reliance on Charizard will be his downfall. Turning his biggest strength into a weakness.

True. This isn't Remo or Trevor we're talking about.
 

Shneak

this is a Nessa x Sonia stan account ✨
UNREQUITED UNFEZANT LOVE <3 <3 <3

I'm surprised at how many Pokemon we saw from Alain in the preview. All of them, actually. So he uses all of them in this episode unless its being sneaky and diving into part two. I doubt Pikachu can take out that many of them so Alain's probably doing a lot of switching for some reason.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Unfezant can be a strong Pokemon. Why the Pokemon fandom gotta complain about everything?

I think it's because the rest of his team are strong, late-game Pokemon or they have ever the established mystique of being Megazard.

Unfezant sticks out like a sore thumb because it's just so common. There's no mystique there.

That said, as long as the battle is good, I don't really mind.

I think if you're doing a 6 on 6 in less than two episodes you need a Pokemon or two that will lose quickly (even the 3-episode Ash vs. Paul had relatively quick losses for Frosslass and Torterra), and I imagine it will be Unfezant just because it lacks that mystique.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
I'm kinda glad Alan has at least one "common" Pokemon. With us only ever seeing him spam Charizard him having raised all of these monsters was already a bit of a stretch. I'm sure it'll still be strong though. Talonflame VS Unfezant is the final fight before the field change so it might actually have some weight behind it.
 

Pepsi_Plunge

Dojyaaa~~aan
It's rare for Alain though since Pidoves aren't common in Kalos, they only appear in the friend safari, ofc the anime stretches those boundaries so it doesn't mean much.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Except it's not like DP because if you look at it in DP in Ash's rival battle against Paul Infernape wound up getting 3 wins, while in this case for instance with the Kalos Team's match against Sawyer/Shota Pikachu only got 2 wins there and Greninja 1, and in this match against Alain It's extremely unlikely that Pikachu and Greninja are getting more then 1 win. From the way you seem to be making it sound, it sounds like Pikachu and Greninja are going the only ones to get win in the match against Alain, which I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that won't be the case. You know it's funny first people were complaining about how when Greninja was a Froakie and Frogadier(more so when it was a Frogadier) that it wasn't getting enough focus, but now the moment that Greninja gets 1 win in a match suddenly it's "oh because Greninja got a win that means it's the Greninja show", you do realize that if the situation was with Greninja was truly the same as it was with Infernape then Greninja would have gotten 3 wins in the match against Sawyer and 3 wins in the match against Alain.
Which as we know against Sawyer Greninja only got 1 win, and it's extremely unlikely that Greninja would get 3 wins in the battle against Alain, in which it's probably only going to get 1 win there.
The way people are making it sound it sounds like Greninja is not allowed to have any wins or any form of focus because if it does somehow it suddenly screenhogging.

Jesus, do you take everything so literally? And you missed the point completely.

Smogonfrog starred in 3 gyms, including the latter two. The entire XY&Z arc has focused on him the most. He defeated Altaria, and probably swept that entire round. He has the marquee duels against Mega Sceptile and Zard X. Pikachu was the dominant member in the first third of XY, has the best overall record IIRC, earned two wins against Leprechaun, and is now apparently battling 3 or 4 of Alain's Pokemon. These two have basically been the two main forces of the "Ultimate Team," while the others, similar to Torterra/Gible/Buizel/Staraptor in DP, were steady but not great. As I wrote in my previous post.

-----------
It has nothing to do with a double or triple battle. Look at the match with Sawyer. Hawlucha was defeated by Slaking and Talonflame came into the battle to pick up where he left off. While someone like Hawlucha uses his opponent's moves to his advantage to gain momentum and power, Talonflame uses its speed alone. In doing so, it overpowered Slaking and brought home the victory. Same case with Talonflame vs Clawitzer. The bird was defeated only for Pikachu to come in. In all of these matches no one has gone down easily for Ash's team as they've all taken hits and lasted. Of course, people will argue against it no matter what.

You could have substituted anyone in that situation. Heck, throw in Snorlax or Swellow or Bulbasaur, and they'd have solo'd that Slaking outright.

But, look at how he isn't getting the wins and Ash can say "Hey, Pikachu isn't working. Noivern will be better for Tyranitar." or "Hawlucha's speed is great for Weavile". Everyone is getting a shot to perform as a Team unlike past seasons where there was the Charizards or the Sceptiles. Greninja meanwhile has had only two battles in the entire League and Goodra has had more screen time since XYZ 30 than Greninja has in that same span.

Both the Hoenn and Sinnoh squad battled as a team against Tyson and Paul, respectively.


So, a little anology for all you baseball fans on here:
Ash's team is a great pitching staff, without one piece they'll fail. If the starter doesn't pitch well then the rest of the staff is struggling to keep up.

Pikachu = starting pitcher. He's the most reliable member of the team. Someone you can call upon in any situation to be a stopper. He stared in the first 3 gyms before turning to a supporting role up until the League where he took out two of Sawyer's team, changing the tide of battle.

Hawlucha = Set-up man. Time and time again he's come through in tight situations to get the victory for Ash. Heliosk, Laverre City, Astrid, and now hopefully against Weavile.

Talonflame = Middle Reliver. The first pitcher you turn to when your starter is tiring. releiable and dependable where he can get leftys and rightys out at the same time. In the sense that Ash uses him in almost every gym match and is constantly using him in important situations in battle. Has shown to be able to beat Pokemon in both the sky and on the ground through it's speed and physical attacks.

Goodra = Long Reliever. Someone who can come in and give you three innings on a bad day. this
is mainly based around Goodra's bulkiness and how he can tank hits. Without this stopper than who does Ash use to stop powerful attacks?

Noivern = LOOGY (Lefty One-Out GuY). A situational pitcher who you bring in to get one certain batter out in a tight spot. Not the best, but he's able to get the job done when called upon. Case in point: battles with Metang, Doublade and Salamence where it lost one, won one and tied.

Greninja = Closer. the one the manager turns to in the toughest situation of any game, the last inning. With your team tied or holding a slim lead, using arguably your best pitcher to seal the win is a no-brainer. Same case with Ash using Greninja at the end against the strongest members of his opponents team.

You could make similar analogies for his AG and DP teams.

------
I swear half the hate is purely BW related, even though no-one will admit it..

Quit the white knighting man.

If Alain's last Pokemon was a ****ing Doduo or Pelipper or Delibird, people would be complaining just the same. Nobody would have said anything if it was a Volcarona, Mandibuzz, Braviary, or Hydreigon.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
i just watched the preview again.

it does look like Noivern and Hawlucha get knocked out by the time Talonflame and Unfezant are clashing, their greyed out on the scoreboard.

amusing that Alain's entire roster is revealed, but Goodra and Greninja don't get seen.
 
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