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Aug 18th: XY&Z038 - Kalos League Victory! Ash's Ultimate Match!!

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Touma Callum

Imagine Breaker
I could be overthinking this, but why would they build all this hype up and go to all this trouble of keeping the wining a secret only for Ash to lose? That would be a huge slap in the face to the fans and to me seems very fishy.
 

Jacob2145

Active Member
I could be overthinking this, but why would they build all this hype up and go to all this trouble of keeping the wining a secret only for Ash to lose? That would be a huge slap in the face to the fans and to me seems very fishy.

Maybe they want to shock everyone? It was the same in the Zard X vs. Zard Y episode. There was massive hype surrounding the battle only to it to end in a OHKO.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Maybe they want to shock everyone? It was the same in the Zard X vs. Zard Y episode. There was massive hype surrounding the battle only to it to end in a OHKO.

The difference here is that while promotional materials hyped up the two Pokemon, once you knew the trainers that were facing off, the result was inevitable. We all knew Trevor was getting crushed. This isn't even close to the same.
 

NegaiFreak

Plus Ultra!
I could be overthinking this, but why would they build all this hype up and go to all this trouble of keeping the wining a secret only for Ash to lose? That would be a huge slap in the face to the fans and to me seems very fishy.

Exactly. There's a lot of things pointing towards Ash achieving one of the greatest, if not one of the best feats he's ever accomplished. There's so much hype and such surrounding Ash and Greninja, it would feel like such a shame to see him lose, especially to someone like Alain considering his currently misguided and jerk-like character.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
I've seen many good arguments for why Alan would win as well (he finally becomes the strongest by beating Ash and is at the height of hubris before Lysandre does his evil deeds) so it really could go either way
 

Jacob2145

Active Member
The difference here is that while promotional materials hyped up the two Pokemon, once you knew the trainers that were facing off, the result was inevitable. We all knew Trevor was getting crushed. This isn't even close to the same.

Yes, we knew that Alain would win, but there's no reason why wouldn't they show an amazing and thrilling Zard vs Zard battle everyone was hoping for.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
I've seen many good arguments for why Alan would win as well (he finally becomes the strongest by beating Ash and is at the height of hubris before Lysandre does his evil deeds) so it really could go either way

Exactly, I don't think it is a lock yet that Ash wins. Alain winning would still make a lot of sense and won't be that surprising. I was at about 80/20 that Ash wins, but re-considering other possibilities, I think it's more like 60/40 in Ash's favor now.
 

Janovy

Banned
It's 50/50 for me, but it's inexcusable that we haven't gotten a single glimpse of Oak/Delia or any past character watching Ash's biggest League achievement.

That very exclusion of the past characters makes me feel like Ash's isn't winning this.
 

Hopeoftheflame

Well-Known Member
It's 50/50 for me, but it's inexcusable that we haven't gotten a single glimpse of Oak/Delia or any past character watching Ash's biggest League achievement.

That very exclusion of the past characters makes me feel like Ash's isn't winning this.

I am not to worried I think that even without voice actors we could see friends of ash's past briefly right before a finishing blow (even if Alain won). Even without that I would be happy as long as he won.
 

ugotmybeef

Well-Known Member
It's 50/50 for me, but it's inexcusable that we haven't gotten a single glimpse of Oak/Delia or any past character watching Ash's biggest League achievement.

That very exclusion of the past characters makes me feel like Ash's isn't winning this.

They have better things to do. Oak's busy with his poetry radio shows and Delia cleaning the house.

But honestly, we might see them watching them watch the finals without any of them talking.
 

NegaiFreak

Plus Ultra!
It's 50/50 for me, but it's inexcusable that we haven't gotten a single glimpse of Oak/Delia or any past character watching Ash's biggest League achievement.

That very exclusion of the past characters makes me feel like Ash's isn't winning this.

Let's hope we do get those glimpses at some point in these two episodes. I still can't see how from a story perspective that Alain winning would be the best thing. Can someone please give me some points as to why you believe Alain will win? I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical here, I'd actually like to know.
 

Satoshi & Touko

Peanuts aren't just a nut.
I was originally 50/50 on the subject of Ash winning, but at this point given the secrecy, I'm about 60/40 or 65/35 in favor of Ash winning at this moment in time.
 

Janovy

Banned
Let's hope we do get those glimpses at some point in these two episodes. I still can't see how from a story perspective that Alain winning would be the best thing. Can someone please give me some points as to why you believe Alain will win? I'm not being sarcastic or rhetorical here, I'd actually like to know.
It essentially boils down to Alain's character arc.

Alain has been desiring to become the strongest so he can protect the people he cares about. By defeating Ash, Alain will finally think he has succeeded. He has defeated Ash, he was won the League, he has finally become strong enough because he has also managed to gather enough energy to help Mairin's Chespin. And at the moment of his triumph, Flare will rain on his parade. Alain will realize that all the battles he's fought and that everything he's done has essentially been pointless - he's not strong, he's weak, naive and has been Lysandre's puppet all along. Even worse, Mairin is still with Lysandre. she's in danger.

So I think the writers COULD be setting up Alain for a big win only to laugh in his face and mock all of his misguided victories he has been striving for.

Alain's victory could be followed by his immediate downfall.
 

Lexya428

Pokèmon Master
Honestly, it's hard to even imagine Satoshi winning at this point, even seeing the Japanese title translates as "Kalos League Victory! Satoshi's Greatest Decisive Battle!" This is somewhat a difficult concept to even begin to imagine for people watching since the first generation. However, if he does win than its even more likely that he won't be going to Alola. Seeing at one point the writers (many years ago) had mention that if Satoshi wins a league it would be the end of his storyline. However, maybe they could change their minds. We will have to wait and see what they have planned. I also find it hard to believe that they would give out his victory in an episode title.
 

Jacob2145

Active Member
Honestly, it's hard to even imagine Satoshi winning at this point, even seeing the Japanese title translates as "Kalos League Victory! Satoshi's Greatest Decisive Battle!" This is somewhat a difficult concept to even begin to imagine for people watching since the first generation. However, if he does win than its even more likely that he won't be going to Alola. Seeing at one point the writers (many years ago) had mention that if Satoshi wins a league it would be the end of his storyline. However, maybe they could change their minds. We will have to wait and see what they have planned. I also find it hard to believe that they would give out his victory in an episode title.

Yeah, exactly! That's the status quo that I talked about.

About Lysandre wanting strong mons - if Greninja lost in a close fight, this would hardly make it weak. Also, it's not like Greninja hasn't lost anything in the past...
 

NegaiFreak

Plus Ultra!
It essentially boils down to Alain's character arc.

Alain has been desiring to become the strongest so he can protect the people he cares about. By defeating Ash, Alain will finally think he has succeeded. He has defeated Ash, he was won the League, he has finally become strong enough because he has also managed to gather enough energy to help Mairin's Chespin. And at the moment of his triumph, Flare will rain on his parade. Alain will realize that all the battles he's fought and that everything he's done has essentially been pointless - he's not strong, he's weak, naive and has been Lysandre's puppet all along. Even worse, Mairin is still with Lysandre. she's in danger.

So I think the writers COULD be setting up Alain for a big win only to laugh in his face and mock all of his misguided victories he has been striving for.

Alain's victory could be followed by his immediate downfall.

That would actually be a good way to set up his downfall from his hubris. He thinks he's fixed everything when he realizes that he's just made it all worse. Even still, I want to see Ash winning here.
 

Janovy

Banned
That would actually be a good way to set up his downfall from his hubris. He thinks he's fixed everything when he realizes that he's just made it all worse. Even still, I want to see Ash winning here.
Yeah. That being said, that is the only way I see Alain's win having some sort of purpose.

If Alain wins and the writers don't take advantage of that I'll be rather disappointed because then I'd rather have Ash win because he cares a lot more about this.
 

NegaiFreak

Plus Ultra!
Yeah, exactly! That's the status quo that I talked about.

About Lysandre wanting strong mons - if Greninja lost in a close fight, this would hardly make it weak. Also, it's not like Greninja hasn't lost anything in the past...

The same can applied to Charizard though. He hasn't lost recently either.

@Janovy: If that were the case, that would be a great story if the writers were to take advantage of it. Nevertheless, I can't stray away from seeing Ash potentially win his first League.
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
It essentially boils down to Alain's character arc.

Alain has been desiring to become the strongest so he can protect the people he cares about. By defeating Ash, Alain will finally think he has succeeded. He has defeated Ash, he was won the League, he has finally become strong enough because he has also managed to gather enough energy to help Mairin's Chespin. And at the moment of his triumph, Flare will rain on his parade. Alain will realize that all the battles he's fought and that everything he's done has essentially been pointless - he's not strong, he's weak, naive and has been Lysandre's puppet all along. Even worse, Mairin is still with Lysandre. she's in danger.

So I think the writers COULD be setting up Alain for a big win only to laugh in his face and mock all of his misguided victories he has been striving for.

Alain's victory could be followed by his immediate downfall.
My issue with this is that it's pretty much already been done in Act 4 of the Mega Evo specials, Alan went through the whole trial of defeating 10 Mega Evo users including an Elite 4 member (which should be a much bigger confidence boost than beating Ash tbh), seemed really happy for his achievement but immediately got shot down by the news regarding Hari-san. So we'd just be seeing the same thing happen to Alan while missing out on the opportunity to see something monumental for Ash.
 
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