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Aug 18th: XY&Z038 - Kalos League Victory! Ash's Ultimate Match!!

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Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
Highly unlikely. The one-hour special is definitely the conclusion of the Flare arc.

That Greninja episode could may as well be a filler, but I don't think anyone wants to see a Greninja filler episode. I still think that Greninja episode would be important, but I'm not sure what that episode would be.
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
The only thing I can support from this is that final contest in which May & Ash participated in the Kanto region. The final battle between them ended in a draw, and May and Ash received half a ribbon. That's contests though, so I don't think I would like to see two trainers hold half a trophy, let alone two small trophies for a tie.

Except that was an unofficial contest. In an official contest that was held earlier, May and Jessie were tied, but they used overtime rules staying that whoever gets their opponent's points to zero first, or knocks their opponent's Pokemon out first wins.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
This is still a major competition, it doesn't really matter if it's in the real world or not, the point is that when it comes to major competitions there are tie breakers rounds or something else to decide who won. Sure this is in fiction but considering real world people write this chances are since they know this would be a major competition there going to want to show that it is meaning that they won't have the tie as a final outcome.





Also just a note about the contest you brought up the most likely reason why the tie their didn't result in a tie breaker match was because it was not an official pokemon contest meaning that you couldn't really use the prize there to enter the grand festival, just thought that I should point that out as well.

No not really. A fictional competition doesn't have to play by real world rules no matter much you say otherwise. Unless its revealed that ties must be resolved with tie breakers according to league rules, I still believe a tie is possible
 

Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
Except that was an unofficial contest. In an official contest that was held earlier, May and Jessie were tied, but they used overtime rules staying that whoever gets their opponent's points to zero first, or knocks their opponent's Pokemon out first wins.

Oh, right, I almost forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me about that one. Unofficial events would count ties, but official events are always the big thing. The Kalos League is an official event, so a tie would not be the best outcome because that may force a sudden death. If a tie were to happen though, that Greninja episode would be the sudden death, but I really don't see a tie happening since we know that there will be a winner.
 

WaterTypeWarrior

Well-Known Member
The greninja episode is part of the flare arc.

We have no clue what the Greninja episode is. While it could be part of the Flare arc, the fact that it happens after the 1-hour special makes me think it's something separate. I just have a hard time seeing that special not being the conclusion to Team Flare.
 

Nume-chan

Pokémon Breeder
.

Considering how Ash-Greninja's battles have been decided since they mastered the Bond Phenomenon it would be VERY strange if the giant orange Water-Shuriken wasn't the finishing blow on Charizard X, specially since they're said to be the last Pokémon on the field, a move like that has to mean victory, I hope...
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
No not really. A fictional competition doesn't have to play by real world rules no matter much you say otherwise. Unless its revealed that ties must be resolved with tie breakers according to league rules, I still believe a tie is possible

The point is the Kalos league is a Major Competition and the writers want to imply or emphasis that and having a tie be the final outcome does not emphasis that. Sure it doesn't have to play by the real world rules, but chances are it does, since it is a major competition and the writers going to want to emphasis that. It's the same reason why they didn't have the match between Dawn and Zoey in the Grand Festival wind up as a tie, that match could have easily wound up as a draw but it didn't.
 
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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
The point is the Kalos league is a Major Competition and the writers want to imply or emphasis that and having a tie be the final outcome does not emphasis that. Sure it doesn't have to play by the real world rules, but chances are it does, since it is a major competition and the writers going to want to emphasis that. It's the same reason why they didn't have the match between Dawn and Zoey in the Grand Festival wind up as a tie, that match could have easily wound up as a draw but it didn't.

Okay but this isn't Dawn vs.zoey. The writers can still have Ash and Alain tie and both be deemed winners should they choose.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
Obviously, I don't want a tie. But I have a feeling that it might end up that way.

And how is that not conceivable? Draws happen all the time in the anime. Now imagine if SatoSmogonfrog v Zard X ended up being a draw - well neither trainer would have any remaining Pokémon on-hand, so the match is declared a tie.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Okay but this isn't Dawn vs.zoey. The writers can still have Ash and Alain tie and both be deemed winners should they choose.

Except in both cases where talking about a match between to characters in a Major Competition, meaning that most likely they don't accept Ties as the final outcome and would require a tie breaker or something else to decide who won. At the end of the day a tie being the final outcome of the match doesn't emphasis that the league is a major competiton.

Obviously, I don't want a tie. But I have a feeling that it might end up that way.

And how is that not conceivable? Draws happen all the time in the anime. Now imagine if SatoSmogonfrog v Zard X ended up being a draw - well neither trainer would have any remaining Pokémon on-hand, so the match is declared a tie.

The thing is the times where a Draw is accepted tends to be in competition that aren't major competitions, it's like saying that oh because a challenger challenge Diantha for her title that since the match ended in a Draw that the Kalos region has 2 official champions, which obviously that wouldn't be an accepted outcome and it would be up to Diantha to decide whether she thinks the challenger is worthy of becoming champion at that point in time.
 
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Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
Considering how Ash-Greninja's battles have been decided since they mastered the Bond Phenomenon it would be VERY strange if the giant orange Water-Shuriken wasn't the finishing blow on Charizard X, specially since they're said to be the last Pokémon on the field, a move like that has to mean victory, I hope...

Greninja has lost three times before mastering the Ash-Greninja transformation. Since Ash and Greninja mastered the Ash-Greninja form, they have never lost, winning the last 3 on-screen battles. We know that MCX has only lost once, so he is beatable. You could also argue that Ash-Greninja is beatable, but only if we see him really struggle.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Except in both cases where talking about a match between to characters in a Major Competition, meaning that most likely they don't accept Ties as the final outcome and would require a tie breaker or something else to decide who won. At the end of the day a tie being the final outcome of the match doesn't emphasis that the league is a major competiton.

They didn't have a tie for his specific match but they might feel differently about Ash vs. Alain. And who says they have to emphasis the League being similar to real world competitions? They have no obligation to follow real world rules as I already mentioned
 

Navin

MALDREAD
The thing is the times where a Draw is accepted tends to be in competition that aren't major competitions, it's like saying that oh because a challenger challenge Diantha for her title that since the match ended in a Draw that the Kalos region has 2 official champions, which obviously that wouldn't be an accepted outcome and it would be up to Diantha to decide whether she thinks the challenger is worthy of becoming champion at that point in time.

We have no idea what the rules are regarding a draw, so I don't know how you're automatically ruling out it won't happen in a major competition (especially coming from someone who always thinks anything can happen).

Basically, unless the preview tomorrow spoils the result, we have no idea whether it'll be a win, tie, or loss for Ash. It might be the first completely unknown outcome in the series.
 

Nume-chan

Pokémon Breeder
Greninja has lost three times before mastering the Ash-Greninja transformation. Since Ash and Greninja mastered the Ash-Greninja form, they have never lost, winning the last 3 on-screen battles. We know that MCX has only lost once, so he is beatable. You could also argue that Ash-Greninja is beatable, but only if we see him really struggle.
Agreed, let's see how the battle will unfold, from a narrative point of view tough I still cannot help but to be left with a bad taste on my mouth if Greninja doesn't win here, and Ash of course, Alain can win but it would feel odd for me at least.
 
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ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
They didn't have a tie for his specific match but they might feel differently about Ash vs. Alain. And who says they have to emphasis the League being similar to real world competitions? They have no obligation to follow real world rules as I already mentioned

Except your missing the point it doesn't matter if they aren't obligated to follow real world rules because the point is that they want to emphasis that the Kalos League is a major competition and having a tie as the final outcome does not emphasis and chances are there not going to make an exception just so that the final out outcome can be a tie.
 

dp045

Well-Known Member
I wonder if after that Greninja launch the Water Giant Orange Shuriken he and Ash remain so tired they will lose the transformation. I'm not saying go to waste but as you can see when launching the attack Greninja no marks of damage received or something like that and not think the battle against MegaCharizard X is unilateral for Greninja as occurred with that of Sceptile.
And I imagine: Greninja after having launched the attack on Charizard is very tired and lose transformation, moments later you can see in the smoke from the explosion silhouette standing Charizard, Ash is shocked to see that survived to this movement and also to see that Greninja it is already very difficult to move. The dust cloud is completely dissipated and you can see that Charizard also lost the tranfomacion, which surprised everyone in the stadium and just before Ash and Alain order to perform some movement Charizard plummets weakened and is named Greninja as the winner giving the Ash victory.
If this happens to more than one will give you a heart attack, xD.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Except your missing the point it doesn't matter if they aren't obligated to follow real world rules because the point is that they want to emphasis that the Kalos League is a major competition and having a tie as the final outcome does not emphasis and chances are there not going to make an exception just so that the final out outcome can be a tie.

Honestly, yes, they could go with a tie. But it would destroy any character arc they've built up to.

-It would cheapen Ash's win, making it not feel like he won a League. A pity win.
-Alain wouldn't exactly be the strongest, and he certainly wouldn't gain anything
-There would be other aesthetic issues as well, such as the trophies and such

On top of all this, the summaries pretty much say there'll be one winner. Real life rules or not, no major competition, no matter how close, has ever seemed to have battles declared as a draw. The closest we got was Maylene, and there it was up to the discretion of the Gym leader. Who's discretion would it be up to here? It gets simply too messy for a story.
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
Except your missing the point it doesn't matter if they aren't obligated to follow real world rules because the point is that they want to emphasis that the Kalos League is a major competition and having a tie as the final outcome does not emphasis and chances are there not going to make an exception just so that the final out outcome can be a tie.

If the match does end up with both Pokemon down, they may have it to where the first Pokemon to get up wins.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
Except your missing the point it doesn't matter if they aren't obligated to follow real world rules because the point is that they want to emphasis that the Kalos League is a major competition and having a tie as the final outcome does not emphasis and chances are there not going to make an exception just so that the final out outcome can be a tie.

Actually your the one who is missing the point. You keep insisting that a fictional league has to abide by real world competitions which isnt the case. Emphasising this is a major competition doesnt mean they have to follow real world rules. This is fiction, they can determine and make up their own rules. And one being a Draw could result in two victors.
 

Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
I wonder if after that Greninja launch the Water Giant Orange Shuriken he and Ash remain so tired they will lose the transformation. I'm not saying go to waste but as you can see when launching the attack Greninja no marks of damage received or something like that and not think the battle against MegaCharizard X is unilateral for Greninja as occurred with that of Sceptile.
And I imagine: Greninja after having launched the attack on Charizard is very tired and lose transformation, moments later you can see in the smoke from the explosion silhouette standing Charizard, Ash is shocked to see that survived to this movement and also to see that Greninja it is already very difficult to move. The dust cloud is completely dissipated and you can see that Charizard also lost the tranfomacion, which surprising States in the stadium and just before Ash and Alain order to perform some movement Charizard plummets weakened and is named Greninja as the winner giving the Ash victory.
If this happens to more than one will give you a heart attack, xD.

This sounds like wishful thinking, but certainly not impossible. That would get the fans on their feet and would go crazy. That sounds like Electivire vs Infernape where both are just standing after the Thunder Punch and Flare Blitz clash until Electivire plummets weakened. Also add in the heartbeat effect and both Charizard and Greninja standing there, both in their normal forms. Greninja is about to plummet, but survives and stands on its feet, then Charizard plummets. Adding that sequence to your event would probably make this the most epic ending to a Pokemon League.
 
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