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Aug 18th: XY&Z038 - Kalos League Victory! Ash's Ultimate Match!!

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Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
I mean I guess you could say xy paralleled that with greninja-infernape, while the others took a hit. Goodra having a 15 episode arc for itself also didnt help.

Can't argue here, goodra arc did stunt some mons, yet him gone for the Noibat development was kind of decent, we still need more Noivern though.

At least dedenne got out of his bag for the Goodra episodes.

And Greninja arc wasn't as bad, I think it was 3 less episodes than monferno deal.
 
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Alexander18

Dragon Pokemon fan
Ash's Ultimate Match is a fitting title considering this is the final league battle with his best regional team yet. Plus he is up against an opponent who has defeated him twice and has a powerhouse team. This is indeed the ultimate match.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Oh definitely. Alain is like showing us that his ego is above everyone else. Cynthia at least accepted to battle Paul because of Paul's enthusiasm to battle, and you're right about his earnestness. Ash and his training is all about being close, bonding like friends and family, being selflessness, and trusting each other. When Ash had trouble mastering the Ash-Greninja form, he relied on only getting stronger (as in that raw power), which is why Greninja lost to Alain (1st time), Sawyer (battle prior to league), and Wulfric (1st attempt) and when Ash passed out twice. Ash and Greninja mastered the transformation because he went back to his own roots. Alain's team is like you have to deal with multiple egos that just don't mesh together. For Ash's team, it's all good there because of that close bond and trust with the authentic feel of being part of the family.

On top of it, just look at some of the setup, too...or what may be. Bisharp using Thunder Wave, likely. Ash will probably use Rain Dance to heal Goodra, yes, but it will also lead into Greninja having more power for the battle ahead. That's working together.

yuoke said:
I mean I guess you could say xy paralleled that with greninja-infernape, while the others took a hit. Goodra having a 15 episode arc for itself also didnt help.

The difference between Greninja and Infernape, though, is that Greninja didn't hog battle glory. Yes, he had an arc dedicated to him, but it made sense that he would. Infernape was a more extreme version of Charmander's backstory (a well done one, but one, nonetheless) who proceeded to take 2 wins a gym from Fantina on. That's half the gyms. And then 3 in the battle against Paul. By comparison, Greninja only took 2 victories once in the 4th gym, and 1 victory in every other major match (bar Sawyer). So...not even really close to the same. The others, except for Noivern, still had many chances to shine.
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Yes the Monferno syndrome was way worse than Greninja development, heck some of froakie episodes had him also working with hawlucha or fletchling.

The Goodra arc was really the only one that stole some times and his swamp episodes where the goodraest goodra to ever dedenne on the goodra goodrafields for the rest of the cast, but worked as we now had a powerhouse developed fast.

Greninja mastering his form actually gave a lot of leeway for other Pokémon and he only entered hype fest mode at the end of the fights. While infernape did destroy the screen time and record of the regional team.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
On top of it, just look at some of the setup, too...or what may be. Bisharp using Thunder Wave, likely. Ash will probably use Rain Dance to heal Goodra, yes, but it will also lead into Greninja having more power for the battle ahead. That's working together.



The difference between Greninja and Infernape, though, is that Greninja didn't hog battle glory. Yes, he had an arc dedicated to him, but it made sense that he would. Infernape was a more extreme version of Charmander's backstory (a well done one, but one, nonetheless) who proceeded to take 2 wins a gym from Fantina on. That's half the gyms. And then 3 in the battle against Paul. By comparison, Greninja only took 2 victories once in the 4th gym, and 1 victory in every other major match (bar Sawyer). So...not even really close to the same. The others, except for Noivern, still had many chances to shine.

Well, we don't know how long Rain Dance will be active for during the Charizard vs Greninja battle since by the time they both transform it's stopped. At best, it might be for Greninja taking down Bisharp if it takes Goodra down with Guillotine.

Yeah, have to agree on the focus being more shared despite Greninja being Ash's strongest. In only one gym did he actually earn more than one win and even at the League he might only be getting three wins at most over the battles with Sawyer and Alain. It really has allowed his other Pokemon to shine even if they're fall guys.
 
I like how people say alain's downfall is going to be him not trusting or having faith in his pokemon i believe during the final battle ash shows alain what trusting his pokemon does and than alain has his awakening when hes losing and proceeds to beat ash by trusting charizard to keep going and countering the giant shuriken with blast burn/flamethrower
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Well, we don't know how long Rain Dance will be active for during the Charizard vs Greninja battle since by the time they both transform it's stopped. At best, it might be for Greninja taking down Bisharp if it takes Goodra down with Guillotine.

Yeah, have to agree on the focus being more shared despite Greninja being Ash's strongest. In only one gym did he actually earn more than one win and even at the League he might only be getting three wins at most over the battles with Sawyer and Alain. It really has allowed his other Pokemon to shine even if they're fall guys.

We can at least assume it lasts long enough to do something for Greninja considering Charizard pops out in the middle of it and I think the transformation starts off in the rain, considering the sponsor's message (but don't hold me to it).
 

Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
On top of it, just look at some of the setup, too...or what may be. Bisharp using Thunder Wave, likely. Ash will probably use Rain Dance to heal Goodra, yes, but it will also lead into Greninja having more power for the battle ahead. That's working together.

I just looked at the preview again. What we do know is that in some point of the battle, the Rain Dance will disappear during the Charizard (Mega-Charizard X) vs Greninja (Ash-Greninja) battle.

The difference between Greninja and Infernape, though, is that Greninja didn't hog battle glory. Yes, he had an arc dedicated to him, but it made sense that he would. Infernape was a more extreme version of Charmander's backstory (a well done one, but one, nonetheless) who proceeded to take 2 wins a gym from Fantina on. That's half the gyms. And then 3 in the battle against Paul. By comparison, Greninja only took 2 victories once in the 4th gym, and 1 victory in every other major match (bar Sawyer). So...not even really close to the same. The others, except for Noivern, still had many chances to shine.

This. I agree about Infernape. Infernape is a great Pokemon for Ash. However, I really think that Infernape stole a lot of screen time from Ash's other Sinnoh Pokemon, unfairly putting some as his fall guys. I like that Greninja did not hog as much screen time and had Ash's other Kalos Pokemon get some time to shine.

Well, we don't know how long Rain Dance will be active for during the Charizard vs Greninja battle since by the time they both transform it's stopped. At best, it might be for Greninja taking down Bisharp if it takes Goodra down with Guillotine.

Yeah, have to agree on the focus being more shared despite Greninja being Ash's strongest. In only one gym did he actually earn more than one win and even at the League he might only be getting three wins at most over the battles with Sawyer and Alain. It really has allowed his other Pokemon to shine even if they're fall guys.

This is why I liked the Kalos team better because of the fairness in screen time for Ash's Kalos Pokemon.

In terms of how the second half is going to go, I think there is a possibility that Goodra does go down to Bisharp with Guillitone. Guillitone is very deadly. If that's the case, then I can see Greninja also getting two wins along with Pikachu.
 
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yuoke

Treasure huntin'
I like how people say alain's downfall is going to be him not trusting or having faith in his pokemon i believe during the final battle ash shows alain what trusting his pokemon does and than alain has his awakening when hes losing and proceeds to beat ash by trusting charizard to keep going and countering the giant shuriken with blast burn/flamethrower

If that deus ex BS happened I would proclaim the league as even WORSE than kanto.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
I like how people say alain's downfall is going to be him not trusting or having faith in his pokemon i believe during the final battle ash shows alain what trusting his pokemon does and than alain has his awakening when hes losing and proceeds to beat ash by trusting charizard to keep going and countering the giant shuriken with blast burn/flamethrower

That's not the kind of trust or faith we're talking about. Alain certainly trusts Charizard. That much is obvious or else he wouldn't be able to Mega Evolve. However, the problem is that he isn't fighting this battle for him and his entire team but just for himself. There's a stark difference between him and Ash that makes Ash the better material. For one, Ash isn't underestimating his opponent. It's obvious from Alain's lines that he never expected to come close to losing really. It wasn't until Pikachu came out that he saw it as a possibility, which is why he called in Charizard...and even then, Pikachu forced it to take a knee.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
We can at least assume it lasts long enough to do something for Greninja considering Charizard pops out in the middle of it and I think the transformation starts off in the rain, considering the sponsor's message (but don't hold me to it).

Yeah, bit it could also just be in play until they both transform since they only show Mega Charizard X when it isn't raining out. I'd rather see a little battle between them in the rain first though. It would make Goodra being decapitated that much easier to shallow.
 

Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
I like how people say alain's downfall is going to be him not trusting or having faith in his pokemon i believe during the final battle ash shows alain what trusting his pokemon does and than alain has his awakening when hes losing and proceeds to beat ash by trusting charizard to keep going and countering the giant shuriken with blast burn/flamethrower

You definitely missed the point in the true meaning of trust or faith and I really find this ridiculous (unless if you're joking).
 
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Greneuliest808

Future Graduate
If the orange shurikin is not the finishing move then I don't know what is

It would sound ridiculous if the orange shuriken is not the finishing move (unless if there is a legitimate reason).

Ok we need to clarify this. Is the mega shuriken gold or orange? Because as far as I see that thing is gold.

The Mega Shuriken is Orange for what I am concerned.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
Yeah, bit it could also just be in play until they both transform since they only show Mega Charizard X when it isn't raining out. I'd rather see a little battle between them in the rain first though. It would make Goodra being decapitated that much easier to shallow.

Oh, it would. I mean...this is a 6v6 not 1v1x6. Things build, no matter what others think. Hawlucha did what he did because Noivern fell, while also giving Ash an idea of Weavile's capabilities. Assuming Goodra falls to Guillotine (which, let's face it, isn't the worst way to go out), then Rain Dance being a great set up for Greninja to take out Bisharp would further show the team setup.
 

potat_lasaro

I'm kind of alive
Oh, it would. I mean...this is a 6v6 not 1v1x6. Things build, no matter what others think. Hawlucha did what he did because Noivern fell, while also giving Ash an idea of Weavile's capabilities. Assuming Goodra falls to Guillotine (which, let's face it, isn't the worst way to go out), then Rain Dance being a great set up for Greninja to take out Bisharp would further show the team setup.

Of course, I've been saying this entire time how this team is more like a family who picks each other up. When one person goes down, it motivates the others to carry them on their back and finish what they started. Hawlucha being motivated by Noivern's defeat is one way and Greninja taking advantage of Goodra's Rain Dance is another. Hopefully Goodra gets a good battle before falling though. As long as he puts up a fight I'll be fine.
 
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