Aug 18th: XY&Z038 - Kalos League Victory! Ash's Ultimate Match!!

[magicallypuzzled]

yeah i am also going to go on record as saying i don't want ash to win this league either. this has been a completely terrible league and the next two battles can only redeem it so much at this point its going to be my least favorite league no matter what so i'd rather he loses and the writers get a clue in the next league. to make an actual good league where he can win i really don't care how many pokemon he uses or if he uses reserves or not in the one he would win just as long as most of it isn't skipped. in fact he can continue to not win leagues for all i care as long as he has great fights in leagues which aren't skipped i am happy either way.


honestly they screwed this up so royally i am forced to choose between two turds either ash wins in a terrible and unexciting and over all crap league or he loses and the league which was already crap becomes super crap i hate both of these options. but i'd rather the super crap into forgetting kalos ever existed option over having to remember kalos forever as the crap league ash finally won.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

'Let's judge the league on its merits before it's even finished! Yay!"

Honestly it's not even finished yet people, and even if you personally don't like it, there's people out there who do. And in fact, it's the target audience who really matters, and they happen to be children.

 

[magicallypuzzled]

the next two battles could be the most amazing mind blowing battles possible and it wouldn't make up for what has happened so far. and i was very clearly stating my opinion i don't really care what anyone else's opinion is.

 

[Almighty Zard]

People just want to see their long term investment in the series acknowledged, it's called fanservice.

more like what's the point of Ash even keeping all those pokemon at oak's if we're never going to see them in combat again? I get that people want the regional pokemon to do well too, and that's fine, I believe as long as the team has at least 1 well written battle to themselves in a league that's good enough, but beyond that his reserves should get some action time as well of sitting around at oak's, cause what other chance do they have to do so? Outside of filler arcs which we ain't getting this time.

Plus you would think with this year being pokemon's 20th anniversary, they would show off some of his older guys for that fact alone.

Pretty much or Ash defeats Team Flare and they declare him the winner because of that

unless TF takes their plan somewhere secret, Ash might actually get famous for once by taking down a regional team, only problem is I don't see how that would make ash a winner.

Not to mention given his personality, I don't think he would take a technicality win.

Either he beats Alain outright or he likely won't accept the win if there is an interuption, no matter what kind of excuse they come up with like "Oh wait Alain worked with TF therefore he is DQ'ed!" (somewhere else not me)

 

[Omegaz]

more like what's the point of Ash even keeping all those pokemon at oak's if we're never going to see them in combat again? I get that people want the regional pokemon to do well too, and that's fine, I believe as long as the team has at least 1 well written battle to themselves in a league that's good enough, but beyond that his reserves should get some action time as well of sitting around at oak's, cause what other chance do they have to do so? Outside of filler arcs which we ain't getting this time.

Plus you would think with this year being pokemon's 20th anniversary, they would show off some of his older guys for that fact alone.

I mean it ties into us as Pokemon trainers. When we play the games, the pokemon we catch in the games before are left behind when we go to a new region to catch new pokemon and beat new gyms. That is exactly the same as what Ash is doing. And yeah, maybe after we've beat the champion in our game do we bring some our old pokemon back, but there isn't time for that in the anime like there is in our games.

 

[Epicocity]

yeah i am also going to go on record as saying i don't want ash to win this league either. this has been a completely terrible league and the next two battles can only redeem it so much at this point its going to be my least favorite league no matter what so i'd rather he loses and the writers get a clue in the next league. to make an actual good league where he can win i really don't care how many pokemon he uses or if he uses reserves or not in the one he would win just as long as most of it isn't skipped. in fact he can continue to not win leagues for all i care as long as he has great fights in leagues which aren't skipped i am happy either way.


honestly they screwed this up so royally i am forced to choose between two turds either ash wins in a terrible and unexciting and over all crap league or he loses and the league which was already crap becomes super crap i hate both of these options. but i'd rather the super crap into forgetting kalos ever existed option over having to remember kalos forever as the crap league ash finally won.

So...you're saying you don't want him to win because you don't like the League. That seems a little strange to me. The reserves argument, I get. If the entire competition were a bunch of weaklings, I get that as well, but Alain isn't. This just seems like a personal preference that's stretching towards the "I don't want Ash to win because status quo says so". Feel free to hate the League before it's finished if you want, but I really can't see it as a justification for Ash not winning.

 

[magicallypuzzled]

So...you're saying you don't want him to win because you don't like the League. That seems a little strange to me. The reserves argument, I get. If the entire competition were a bunch of weaklings, I get that as well, but Alain isn't. This just seems like a personal preference that's stretching towards the "I don't want Ash to win because status quo says so". Feel free to hate the League before it's finished if you want, but I really can't see it as a justification for Ash not winning.

well lets put it this way suppose the nba decided that the next nba playoffs would be between phoenix (my favorite team), san antonio (phoenix's arch rival) , golden state, and a bunch of high school teams. do you think i should be happy if phoenix won their first nba championship in that league? beating golden state at this point would be really impressive i get that but frankly that's a crap league and i wouldn't want phoenix to win it.

i am also really not sure that either sawyer or alain are worthy of being compared to san antonio or golden state but i decided to be generous. it's also ignoring the fact that a league that's suppose to have hundreds of people on roughly the same level fairs even worse in this comparison to a league that only ever has 16 teams in it.

 

[Emperor Empoleon]

People just want to see their long term investment in the series acknowledged, it's called fanservice.

Not quite?

Bringing Ash's full roster to a winning League in the year of the 20th Anniversary would've been celebratory. I mean people are getting excited because 'Ash could finally win after 20 years!', on that exact same investment. But it doesn't mean nearly as much if they pay no regard to the journey and comrades that led him to this point. He may as well be an all new, Kalos centric character.

 

[Red and Blue]

Isnt him acknowledging he could have used reserves better than no reserves at all? He could have pretended they didnt exist

 

[potat_lasaro]

well lets put it this way suppose the nba decided that the next nba playoffs would be between phoenix (my favorite team), san antonio (phoenix's arch rival) , golden state, and a bunch of high school teams. do you think i should be happy if phoenix won their first nba championship in that league? beating golden state at this point would be really impressive i get that but frankly that's a crap league and i wouldn't want phoenix to win it.

i am also really not sure that either sawyer or alain are worthy of being compared to san antonio or golden state but i decided to be generous. it's also ignoring the fact that a league that's suppose to have hundreds of people on roughly the same level fairs even worse in this comparison to a league that only ever has 16 teams in it.

One problem, Phoenix still wouldn't win in that league. They have too many problems still...

But, to take your anology to another view, would you really expect Golden State and San Antonio to struggle against the High School teams and find it real? Also, wouldn't it get boring to see those two teams just sweep their way to the finals? That is how the writers went, Ash and Alain are Golden State and San Antonio. It would be boring as the viewer to watch those two destroy their opponents and so they focused on the true challenges which are the semi-finals and finals while also showing just how much better Ash and Alain are by one-shotting their first opponents.

 

[andrewscott48209]

well lets put it this way suppose the nba decided that the next nba playoffs would be between phoenix (my favorite team), san antonio (phoenix's arch rival) , golden state, and a bunch of high school teams. do you think i should be happy if phoenix won their first nba championship in that league? beating golden state at this point would be really impressive i get that but frankly that's a crap league and i wouldn't want phoenix to win it.

i am also really not sure that either sawyer or alain are worthy of being compared to san antonio or golden state but i decided to be generous. it's also ignoring the fact that a league that's suppose to have hundreds of people on roughly the same level fairs even worse in this comparison to a league that only ever has 16 teams in it.

The difference between the Pokemon league and the NBA playoffs is that the Pokemon league only requires trainers to collect eight badges to get in while the NBA playoffs requires a team to make it in the top eight in either the eastern conference or the western conference.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Not quite?

Bringing Ash's full roster to a winning League in the year of the 20th Anniversary would've been celebratory. I mean people are getting excited because 'Ash could finally win after 20 years!', on that exact same investment. But it doesn't mean nearly as much if they pay no regard to the journey and comrades that led him to this point. He may as well be an all new, Kalos centric character.

Fanservice, a franchise giving acknowledgement of an scenario in a way it pleases it's fanbase.

Luluco was the ultimate fanservice moment for fans of gainax and trigger, Kamina on TTGL final battle was one of the hypest things for that series. Piplup being mentioned served as a continuity nod and fanservice.

Ash is winning with a regional team, that in itself shows confidence on the bond it has with his new guys and it's honestly heartwarming. He acknowledged he has reserves(they exist and are mentioned another continuity nod) but still chooses to go with his regional mons as he feels it is right.

There is nothing wrong here, I might question some battles being skipped here, but the decision to not use reserves in a self contained arc that might result in his first championship win? That's a big no, instead of bringing powerhouses he chooses to rely on his new partners and that is by itself worth a lot.

 

[magicallypuzzled]

One problem, Phoenix still wouldn't win in that league. They have too many problems still...

But, to take your anology to another view, would you really expect Golden State and San Antonio to struggle against the High School teams and find it real? Also, wouldn't it get boring to see those two teams just sweep their way to the finals? That is how the writers went, Ash and Alain are Golden State and San Antonio. It would be boring as the viewer to watch those two destroy their opponents and so they focused on the true challenges which are the semi-finals and finals while also showing just how much better Ash and Alain are by one-shotting their first opponents.

well see that's the problem with having high school teams in there in the first place they shouldn't have done that. and lets pretend for a moment phoenix can or could beat golden state you see why i wouldn't want them too this would be their first championship i don't want it to be against such a crap league. and all this is assuming golden state being compared to alain isnt laughable which it is

 

[InfernoApe]

What has been so lackluster compared to other leagues? It's not like the others have been super amazing.

There have never been so many skipped battles.

 

[potat_lasaro]

well see that's the problem with having high school teams in there in the first place they shouldn't have done that. and lets pretend for a moment phoenix can or could beat golden state you see why i wouldn't want them too this would be their first championship i don't want it to be against such a crap league. and all this is assuming golden state being compared to alain isnt laughable which it is

How is Alain being compared to Golden State laughable? Both have shown just how great they are in their own ways while also just recently getting stronger. Golden State is arguably one of the greatest teams in the history of the NBA while Alain is on the level of an E4 who are the best trainers of the region. That would mean Ash has defeated arguably one of the top 7 trainers in the region of Kalos who we know are strong. (E4, Diantha, Lysandre, Alain). So what I'm understanding is that even by defeating one of the greatest teams you still wouldn't enjoy the victory? Even though the other trainers have been shown to be strong since they won 8 badges but are still nothing compared to Ash and Alain, you still consider it a bad idea for Ash to win? They've shown he's at his best and there was no reason to show sweeps for every match.

 

[Alexander18]

Fanservice, a franchise giving acknowledgement of an scenario in a way it pleases it's fanbase.

Luluco was the ultimate fanservice moment for fans of gainax and trigger, Kamina on TTGL final battle was one of the hypest things for that series. Piplup being mentioned served as a continuity nod and fanservice.

Ash is winning with a regional team, that in itself shows confidence on the bond it has with his new guys and it's honestly heartwarming. He acknowledged he has reserves(they exist and are mentioned another continuity nod) but still chooses to go with his regional mons as he feels it is right.

There is nothing wrong here, I might question some battles being skipped here, but the decision to not use reserves in a self contained arc that might result in his first championship win? That's a big no, instead of bringing powerhouses he chooses to rely on his new partners and that is by itself worth a lot.

No he is not since it is not confirmed. Saying that Ash is winning is stating it as a fact. It is not a fact. Ash has an equal chance of losing.

 

[Akashin]

Really, the only skipped battle I care about is Astrid. Watching Ash Greninja finish its sweep over Tomo wasn't a big deal, but was seeing Sawyer's battle in full--when it was basically nothing more than a chance to hype and show off Mega Sceptile in any case--really more important than seeing more of Ash's battle against an opponent who by all accounts could have at least pushed him?

Alain dominating the first episode doesn't bother me as much, because when you get down to it he's about as much a deuteragonist as he is a rival, which is a status no other rival has really enjoyed.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

No he is not since it is not confirmed. Saying that Ash is winning is stating it as a fact. It is not a fact. Ash has an equal chance of losing.

Not according to the narrative stakes. But this discussion is about people being salty about the lack of reserves and the quality of the league due to that, especially given that Ash regional team has been called his ultimate team by the writers in multiple iterations.

 

[NegaiFreak]

Not according to the narrative stakes. But this discussion is about people being salty about the lack of reserves and the quality of the league due to that, especially given that Ash regional team has been called his ultimate team by the writers in multiple iterations.

All too true. I for one have enough of Ash losing in leagues, especially to morons like Cameron and powerhouses such as Tobias. If this is is the case, then I'm not changing my opinion on Ash winning here. He has a great chance of winning, even if it's Alain that he's up against. Aside from Noivern, Pikachu, and Greninja, Alain doesn't know about any of Ash's other Pokemon. Of course, the same can be said for Ash not knowing what Alain's going to use aside from Charizard and Metagross.

But here's the kicker: Ash has failed twice to defeat Alain, with Greninja fainting and then him. If they lose here, which I doubt, they would faint again together. This is Ash's shining moment. This is where all his hardships come to fruition and where he'll finally get what he rightfully deserves.

Plus Ultra, Ash. Win this battle.

 

[Epicocity]

Really, the only skipped battle I care about is Astrid. Watching Ash Greninja finish its sweep over Tomo wasn't a big deal, but was seeing Sawyer's battle in full--when it was basically nothing more than a chance to hype and show off Mega Sceptile in any case--really more important than seeing more of Ash's battle against an opponent who by all accounts could have at least pushed him?

Alain dominating the first episode doesn't bother me as much, because when you get down to it he's about as much a deuteragonist as he is a rival, which is a status no other rival has really enjoyed.

To be fair, that battle with Astrid might have just turned into consistent "Absol attacks! Hawlucha dodges! Hawlucha attacks! Absol is damaged!" Rinse. Repeat. Just judging by Hawlucha's state. Even so, I was fine with Sawyer's battle in full, as it showed Aegislash, mega Sceptile, and some mad strategy with Slurpuff's Attract. What they should have cut were the flashbacks that either didn't need to be there or could have been placed in a different episode (here's looking at you XYZ 30). Seriously? How many times do we need to see that Snowbelle flashback?