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August 23rd: PM2019 034 - Saito, the Lone Warrior! The Otosupus Menace!!

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Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
The fact a brawling girl has an octopus known for grappling as an ace gives some...unfortunate implications in how she trains with it.

Though that doesn't excuse the fact of not having her use Machamp at all anyway.
She is saving Machamp for when she and Ash rematch in Galar
 
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1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Menace though, well clearly things aren't too friendly here lol.
 

Maxim

Beyond repair
This episode's got my interest because of Saffron City Karate Master being there.

Will he be Kiyo (from Johto), Hamm (from Kanto Battle Frontier) or someone else because... screw continuity? Even in the games his identity is problematic, as he is known as Koichi in Kanto-based games and Kiyo in Johto-based games, so there's potentially two Karate Masters in the games (although it's debatable whether they're different characters or if it's just GF not paying attention to his name). This episode blurb avoids calling him by name, but again, so does the game's dialogue (the name Kiyo or Koichi only ever appears in battle text, never in NPC dialogue).
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
Will he be Kiyo (from Johto), Hamm (from Kanto Battle Frontier) or someone else because... screw continuity? Even in the games his identity is problematic, as he is known as Koichi in Kanto-based games and Kiyo in Johto-based games, so there's potentially two Karate Masters in the games (although it's debatable whether they're different characters or if it's just GF not paying attention to his name).

Considering they're being consistent with the names, I have no idea why you'd assume they're supposed to be the same character.
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
...does this count as letting someone out of the Not Animated Club? Or is he to insignificant/expendable (watch it be an anime exclusive COTD) to matter? o_O

Because if it counts, that might open some doors...

Nobuhiko had his own episode back in Jouto.
 

Maxim

Beyond repair
Considering they're being consistent with the names, I have no idea why you'd assume they're supposed to be the same character.

Well, aside from different names, nothing really suggests they're separate.

NPCs from different regions constantly mention the Karate Master from Saffron City as a much-idolized Fighting-type Trainer. Hell, he even appears in person in Kalos. He's actually one of the most-referenced Kanto Trainers. If GF didn't want the Karate Master to be a specific character, why would they build his image like this?
I still think that GF's lack of attention to NPC Trainer names may have caused this. First, they didn't care about his Gen II appearance when making FRLG (or simply forgot) and then, when making LGPE they just reused the name either due to copypasta, or decided that the name Koichi (Takenori in Japanese) is "better" because it references his original appearance in Kanto.

To me, it seems obvious that when they were creating his appearance in Mt. Mortar in Gold/Silver, they intended him to be the same character as the Karate Master in Gen I. But that might have changed over the years with some silly decisions.
 
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Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Though that doesn't excuse the fact of not having her use Machamp at all anyway.

Does it really matter though? After seeing how not every Mega Evolution and z-move appeared it was quite obvious we won't see all of the G-Max forms

Besides with how Goh's quickly filling the Kanto Dex he's sure to get a Machamp of his own sooner or later.
 

desdar300

Well-Known Member
From the sounds of it it seems like ash may challenge Bea and lose.
Which was pretty much set up some sort of rematch in the future
 

lolipiece

"Vrrr...?"
Staff member
Moderator
Poor Fighting Dojo. Taken out by Sabrina and losing their Gym status in the games. Taken out by Bea in the anime.

Wonder if Bea's being portrayed as a dojo hunter. I think we did a plot like that in Johto.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Given Grapploct's presumed battling style, I can't wait to see it battling. I'm still unsure if Ash will get focus here with his fighting types.

Considering they're being consistent with the names, I have no idea why you'd assume they're supposed to be the same character.

In fairness to the argument. Sometimes things do get overlooked by game localization or even actual people working on the games and even the anime.

For example:

1. The English Localization didn't name Janine properly and for FRLG her name was Charine because the localization team didn't pick up on Koga's daughter being Janine.
2. Sometimes the original Japanese gets it wrong and the dub actually fixes it. Such as Sawyer's Slurpuff using Electro Ball, a mistake that the dub picked up on (I think) and decided to rename it Energy Ball a move Slurpuff actually can learn. Not sure how Energy Ball got confused with Electro Ball in the Japanese, I would assume the wrong attack was listed.
3. Sometimes the dub misses out an obvious reference to the game's counterpart. Like if a Super Potion was in the Japanese originally, it'll it end up being Magic Potion in the dub because they missed it.

Now I will agree it is unlike the Japanese writers to forgo continuity per se, in context to specific characters. But it wouldn't surprise me AT THE VERY LEAST they created 10 different adapatations for a single character, not realizing this character is the exact specific character in the games, because of generic designs, random name of character, or even in some cases no name at all (like most NPC in 1st generation).

So let's say a character exists in the game referred to as "Blackbelt Justin" he's a relatively important character in Kanto, and this character shows up minorly in Hoenn and Unova, same exact name and relative same character design (or whatever the blackbelt looks like in those games).

The anime could create Three different characters with different names referencing this ONE character because some person was like "Oh yeah there's this Blackbelt that had a unique dialogue of sorts in this game, let me create this character in an episode, forget what the actual character is, or misremembers (doesn't like the name, or wants a different name), and that's how you end up with Blackbelt Charlie which is based off of Blackbelt Justin (for this example).

I can easily imagine that being the case here with everything regarding the Dojo Master of Saffron who has shown up in other games, that the character got multiple adaptations within the anime, due to overlooking past examples, or careful thought.

That being said I absolutely agree with you on the "same character" they may be inspired by the same game character (if that's the case) but I doubt they're the same anime adaptation of said character.
 
Does it really matter though? After seeing how not every Mega Evolution and z-move appeared it was quite obvious we won't see all of the G-Max forms

Besides with how Goh's quickly filling the Kanto Dex he's sure to get a Machamp of his own sooner or later.
It's less about showing G-Max forms but more "here's my ace."

But let's give her the grappling octopus as the ace, since they are such good friends with women in anime culture.
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
In fairness to the argument. Sometimes things do get overlooked by game localization or even actual people working on the games and even the anime.

This has nothing to do with localization. The guy in GSC/HGSS was called Nobuhiko and the guy in FRLG/LGPE was called Takenori. Nobuhiko appeared in the anime under that name in late Jouto in an episode based around his GSC role, and the Fighting Dojo itself appeared in the Battle Frontier arc, where it was run by an old man named Hamaguri who was trying to get his son Kyotaro to take over the dojo, though ultimately ends up handing it to his student Tsuguyo instead. None of those three have any equivalents from the games, and nothing in that episode had any real relation to the Fighting Dojo from the games beyond the name and location of it.

The question is whether Nobuhiko and Takenori are supposed to be the same person, and whether or not either of them will appear in this episode. Nothing about dubs or translators getting stuff wrong.

EDIT: From what I can tell, Japanese fans just seem to consider Nobuhiko and Takenori different characters. There's nothing in the gen 2 games that imply Nobuhiko DIDN'T take over the dojo during the time between gen 1 and 2.
 
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