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Australia Says Sorry.

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Vantage

I ain't witty, so no
I love the way BlAcKyBoI is blaming us for the problems of Aboriginal people. How is it our fault that most members of your race are drunken assholes who take every opportunity to leech off the government? Aboriginals get themselves into alcoholism. They buy the beer, not us.

Aboriginal children in this day and age have every opportunity to get a good education. Schools ARE avalible to them. Their parents simply don't send them there. The life expectancy gap? That's most likely due to alcohol, drugs and poor living conditions. Again, all things which they've done to THEMSELVES.

You people are given free education, healthcare and homes. And we're the BAD guys? Pfft.

Also, the people who were involved in the stolen generation genuinely thought they were doing the right thing for the most part. This was back in a time when Aboriginals were, indeed, not fully understood. The logic behind it was that taking them from their homes and putting them in beter living conditions would be beneficial. That said, the Stolen Generation was indeed an attrocity and the apology was needed. Compensation? Only a reasonable amount (read: not millions), and only for those directly involved.
 

Conquistador

Vive la Revolution!
Of course the Australian Government should apologise. Of course those affected by it deserve compensation. If I never knew my mother and father because I was taken away just because I was of a particular race, and put in an institution, I would be pretty upset, and I would want compensation.

Quite simply, no child deserves to be taken away and institutionalised because they are of one particular race. It's disgusting. As Australians, we have to sit down and come to terms with the fact that we've treated the Aboriginal population very badly. Refusing to apologise for what we've done on the grounds that we don't want to compensate for it is just pathetic. It's the moral imperative to admit we were wrong, get over with it and look for a bipartisan solution with the aboriginal elders.

And BlAcKyBoI, please, the best thing to do in any situation is for both sides to try get over their hatred of one another and reconcile. Two wrongs don't make a right.


Now I agree with all that you said, but your usage of "we" ....

"WE" did nothing, there aren't even many alive that caused this harm. Why should "we" say sorry?

Naturally I believe that it is right to apologise, but you kept saying how "we" did all this when we didn't...
 

KetchupO

tωisted
ugh, It's about time I say.
This hate and resentment could have ended ages ago.

It was a really nice day since my school held a special assembly to watch the event and I missed out on my math lesson! :D *was happy*

Even if some think that the apology wasn't necessary, hey, It didn't hurt anyone did it ?-.- It was a kind and thoughtful thing to do and I hope it will finally give the Aboriginal people closure.

I think it's great that kevin Rudd is aiming to give them a better education and stuff, this should have happened long ago in my opinion.


Now I agree with all that you said, but your usage of "we" ....

"WE" did nothing, there aren't even many alive that caused this harm. Why should "we" say sorry?

Naturally I believe that it is right to apologise, but you kept saying how "we" did all this when we didn't...
I think 'we' refers to the Government and the parliament. They DID do something, and caused a lot of pain to the Aboriginal peoples, so it doesn't really matter if 'we' didn't do anything, it's kinda apologizing on behalf of the people that did.
 
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Conquistador

Vive la Revolution!

I think 'we' refers to the Government and the parliament. They DID do something, and caused a lot of pain to the Aboriginal peoples, so it doesn't really matter if 'we' didn't do anything, it's kinda apologizing on behalf of the people that did.

That I'll certainly accept. Even then though, it was a different parliament xD. But that's just being picky, I suppose...
 

The_Panda

恭喜發財
Conquistador, when I say "we" I'm generally referring to the Australian government, not the Australian people (although it was the Australian people who voted for those parliaments). I could type out "Australian Government" every time but that is a little redundant.

Well, eighty years after the assimilation project began, I can't see how they expect an apology to compensate. I hope they are at least doing something else apologetic, as a "sorry" is worth nothing. Zip. Zilch. Zero. That's like Americans apologizing to Africans and African-Americans for enslaving their people - apologizing today. That's over a hundred years with nothing, and you expect forgiveness? In my opinion, the apology is a pathetic compensation for the situation, but at least it shows that they are starting to feel remorse...for the first time in eighty years.

You have to realise that to us it may not seem much, but to those affected it means a whole lot. If you actually bothered to listen to those who were at the apology, many people who were "stolen" or their children said it was one of the happiest moments of their lives. Let's admit it, the Australian Government has done some tremendously wrong things in the past - and we have to come to terms with this. Refusing to admit the wrongs and apologise to them is not only absolutely pathetic but it hinders bilateral relations; whenever Howard tried negotiations the question of an apology always created a barrier - with that torn down in a symbolic historic moment, we can "right the wrongs" and move onto a new era of Indigenous affairs.

Vantage said:
I love the way BlAcKyBoI is blaming us for the problems of Aboriginal people. How is it our fault that most members of your race are drunken assholes who take every opportunity to leech off the government? Aboriginals get themselves into alcoholism. They buy the beer, not us.

Aboriginal children in this day and age have every opportunity to get a good education. Schools ARE avalible to them. Their parents simply don't send them there. The life expectancy gap? That's most likely due to alcohol, drugs and poor living conditions. Again, all things which they've done to THEMSELVES.

You people are given free education, healthcare and homes. And we're the BAD guys? Pfft.

I don't so much agree with this - much of the problem is not that Aboriginal people don't want to succeed and leave poor living conditions, it's generally that they just can't. It's extremely hard to get a job in the city as an indigenous Australian, and the majority are in Redfern trying to just scrape out a living. It's the same with the majority of minority groups that are in poverty - in most cases the society itself refuses to accept them. If you're born into a disadvantaged group, success is not as simple as bothering to get an education - as you have to overcome the stigmas of society itself (may I note that I would think the vast majority of Australians are at least subconsciously racist towards Aboriginals). In addition the quality of education indigenous Australians in rural areas get is extremely poor and the quality of healthcare available equally bad. Many of the problems currently experienced in Aboriginal populations are often an at least indirect result of particular actions of the Australian government, for example the extremely negligible attention paid to Indigenous Australians before about 1970. European settlers came in and through conflict, settlement, and ultimately what resembles genocide fractured Aboriginal communities, giving them drugs and alcohol, causing immense problems, then pretty much leaving them to suffer. The stolen generation was a particularly misguided (and fundamentally racist) effort to help that made matters even worse. Now it's time to reconcile for past horrific actions, stop dwelling in the past, and get on to really and fundamentally improving bipartisan relationships (which BlAcKyBoI inadvertently demonstrates aren't that good) and helping Aboriginal communities reach the same standard of living as other Australians. Saying sorry is an important step in the road.

Also, the people who were involved in the stolen generation genuinely thought they were doing the right thing for the most part. This was back in a time when Aboriginals were, indeed, not fully understood. The logic behind it was that taking them from their homes and putting them in beter living conditions would be beneficial. That said, the Stolen Generation was indeed an attrocity and the apology was needed. Compensation? Only a reasonable amount (read: not millions), and only for those directly involved.

I completely agree with this - efforts of charity often meet disastrous consequences ESPECIALLY if they are underpinned by extremely racist assumptions (which undoubtedly the idea of removing aboriginal children was). And of course we should judge and award compensation based on individual applications and cases, not as a generalised whole.
 
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Dusk

Dawn
I think both sides of the argument really make sense

But if we are to be a just country, then we have to accept the mistakes we have made in the past.

We took half-caste kids AWAY from their parents, thats got to have some sort of psychological effect on them. I think some Aboriginal's have these booze problems because somehow they have been effected by the stolen generation
 

Conquistador

Vive la Revolution!
Conquistador, when I say "we" I'm generally referring to the Australian government, not the Australian people (although it was the Australian people who voted for those parliaments). I could type out "Australian Government" every time but that is a little redundant.

Lazy... :p


Even still, it wasn't the current parliament/government was it?
 

May's brother

Now to the Maxtreme!
Well even though I'm a rudd supporter i'm not a supporter of the apology.

No, i'm not a racist p****. I just think that the aboriginies have caused some of their own problems, even though we stopped and have obviously repented. As someone before me said, Australia has offered them schooling and they can take it whenever they want, but do they? No, they just live their lives waiting for their turn to sue the government. Last night when I was watching 'Today Tonight' some 50 year old aboriginal dude just got 3 million dollars and used it to buy a car, then claims ON CAMERA that he enjoyed living with the white family. What the hell?

It also seems that the aboriginies used the apology to gain international pity.
CNN and FOX news in the U.S broadcast the apology as news.

Some might say Australia just set an international standered. We didn't, we just apologised to a race we've already stopped hating and has full educational (and other) support.

Look, I don't hate aboriginies, and there are many out there who are very good, hardworking people who don't leech off events like this to gain pity. There are two white twins in my class who are a 3rd aboriginal (granted I only found out on the day), and they're great too.

So that said, I end this statement.
 

Yonowaru in Chaos

gaspard de la nuit
maybe they'll make February 13th a public holiday next year

but seriously, i think that the apology would be a great thing for the aborigines. i didn't see the broadcast of it (and for some reason, there was no assembly, but the flag was up), so my knowledge of what was said in the apology is a bit shallow.

i think that the stolen generation have every right to be apologised to, and the governments back then were stupid in kidnapping aboriginal children to be raised as servants for wealthy white families. but that doesn't mean that the government's intention to upgrade aboriginal society is wrong. their course of action was criminal and everything they did to the stolen generation is worth apoligising for. i admit i haven't studied australian history much (because of the syllabus), but i reckon that kevin rudd's action was a way to undo every bad thing that previous governments had done to the aborigines.

it doesn't matter that it was the past's fault, its still Australia's fault, isn't it? you can't just say, 'its not our fault that the aborigines in the cities are so poor that they have to use alcohol and drugs to rid themselves of negative feelings and that society rejects them because of this.' its also a bad thing that so many white australians look down on aborigines because of this and think that they are superior to them in every way.

and john howard was so racist he didn't even attend the apology speech.
 

OzBlackman

OzCommunist
I love the way BlAcKyBoI is blaming us for the problems of Aboriginal people. How is it our fault that most members of your race are drunken assholes who take every opportunity to leech off the government? Aboriginals get themselves into alcoholism. They buy the beer, not us.

Charming. I've explained this.

Aboriginal children in this day and age have every opportunity to get a good education. Schools ARE avalible to them. Their parents simply don't send them there. The life expectancy gap? That's most likely due to alcohol, drugs and poor living conditions. Again, all things which they've done to THEMSELVES.

The schools are in very poor condition. Read up.

You people are given free education, healthcare and homes. And we're the BAD guys? Pfft.

We don't get homes, or healthcare. At least my family never did. And everyone gets free education at least where I live.

Also, the people who were involved in the stolen generation genuinely thought they were doing the right thing for the most part. This was back in a time when Aboriginals were, indeed, not fully understood. The logic behind it was that taking them from their homes and putting them in beter living conditions would be beneficial. That said, the Stolen Generation was indeed an attrocity and the apology was needed. Compensation? Only a reasonable amount (read: not millions), and only for those directly involved.

I know they thought it was the right thing. They were wrong.
 

Misaki-chi

loves Rutger
Well, I was refraining from posting in this thread, merely because my views can be summed up in this way: I agree with The_Panda, and Swampy in that lol @ anyone trying to argue rationally with facetious, as if he was a naïve and small child who dearly needed guidance and explanation. Lurk more.

But what is making me laugh is all this apologising in the threads. 'I'M NOT RACIST BUT ALL ABORIGINAL PEOPLE ARE DRUNKS WHO LIVE OFF THE SYSTEM AND CREATE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS'! Yes, you are being racist, as much as you'd like to deny it to yourselves; you just look silly if you try to excuse it. Of course saying 'all' are problem-creating drunks is racist. I'm not even going to comment on that assumption, as there's nothing more to be said, but seriously, guys, own up to your viewpoints at least. Oh, wait, yes, there is one thing more to say.

we stopped and have obviously repented.

Also a generalisation... keep living on your fluffy little cloud of blissful oblivion.

/me returns to lurking
 
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The_Panda

恭喜發財
Well even though I'm a rudd supporter i'm not a supporter of the apology.

No, i'm not a racist p****. I just think that the aboriginies have caused some of their own problems, even though we stopped and have obviously repented. As someone before me said, Australia has offered them schooling and they can take it whenever they want, but do they? No, they just live their lives waiting for their turn to sue the government. Last night when I was watching 'Today Tonight' some 50 year old aboriginal dude just got 3 million dollars and used it to buy a car, then claims ON CAMERA that he enjoyed living with the white family. What the hell?

It also seems that the aboriginies used the apology to gain international pity.
CNN and FOX news in the U.S broadcast the apology as news.

Some might say Australia just set an international standered. We didn't, we just apologised to a race we've already stopped hating and has full educational (and other) support.

Look, I don't hate aboriginies, and there are many out there who are very good, hardworking people who don't leech off events like this to gain pity. There are two white twins in my class who are a 3rd aboriginal (granted I only found out on the day), and they're great too.

So that said, I end this statement.

Please don't be so naïve (especially in thinking that Today Tonight is in any way reliable). We've tried to offer them schooling. We've tried to offer them housing. We've tried to give them healthcare. But they still don't have what we have in urban society. I'll use the hospital system as an example. I work in the Public Health system here in Sydney, in a world class healthcare system. However I've also done work as a medical student in some remote communities in Western New South Wales, and the standard in those "hospitals" there is appalling - it's easily worse than many of the hospitals I visited while in India last year. Yes it's healthcare, but it's 3rd world healthcare. They're Australians, in a country where the majority of the population live a privileged lifestyle. It's awful that alongside this we should have another standard for rural indigenous communities which is that that you would expect in a Sub-Saharan African nation. The problem is not that Aborigines don't care. If given the chance, the elders would hastily accept any opportunity for a better health system, good housing or quality education - but it's just not there. The problem is that for fifty odd years no government accept the Rudd and Howard governments has actually bothered to put in full hearted effort into solving the problem.

Also I don't like the way many people generalise when it comes to specific behaviour of the aboriginal population - I've deliberately underlined sentences where you have made a gross overstatement. And please don't let individual cases let you make a statement about a population of five hundred thousand.
 

j_hunter

Weedles in the sugar
No matter what your opinion on "Sorry Day", you've got to admit that seeing the looks on those faces, those people who had been through so much... no matter your stance on the issue, no matter what your reasons are, you have to admit that the apology was worth it. It was worth it, even though not all of the stolen generation were unhappy and abused. It was worth it, even if you think Aborigines created their own problems.

It was worth it to see those people's lives acknowledged. Isn't that reason enough?
 

OzBlackman

OzCommunist
No matter what your opinion on "Sorry Day", you've got to admit that seeing the looks on those faces, those people who had been through so much... no matter your stance on the issue, no matter what your reasons are, you have to admit that the apology was worth it. It was worth it, even though not all of the stolen generation were unhappy and abused. It was worth it, even if you think Aborigines created their own problems.

It was worth it to see those people's lives acknowledged. Isn't that reason enough?

Quoted for awesomeness and truth.
 

Cool_Trainer_Tyrone

Only Train The Best
Oh wow, I never knew! Thanks for the tip, m8!


It's not so much what I believe, I'm merely going by what historians believe. They were trapped in the lowest echelon of society, and their land would have been snatched by someone eventually if Captain Cook never discovered Australia because they were stupid and weak. Go read some Australian history books and it'll tell you the exact same thing in a different context.

The reason why I don't like them now is because they're a waste of space. They don't try to become educated. They don't try to make a life for themselves. They don't do anything except sit in Darwin or where-the-hell-ever thinking that they're better than everyone because they're the "FOUNDERS OF THE LAND." Toss them into contemporary Australian society with some cash and I guarantee they won't make any use out of it.

We can though. Because we're cool.
waste of space,what sort of a heartless person are you. ****!! How are they hurting you,and from what i read your saying all Aboriginals arem the same,my cursin is half case and his dads full Aboriginal and he was a builder and had a house,lived his life well.
 
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