Bah

[Blue Ace]

Another team attempt, the last one was a complete failure. And as the last time, I haven’t tested this one yet.

Porygon 2 @ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+Def – Atk)
Ability: Trace
252 HP, 116 Def, 80 S.Atk, 56 S.Def
- Magic Coat
- Recover
- Discharge
- Ice Beam

Intimidates Gyara leads, scouts Mences and reflects Hypnosis onto Bronzong/ Yanmega leads, beastly lead. And to prove it here's a log: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=8114521&postcount=17

Machamp @ Leftovers
Impish Nature (+Def – S.Atk)
Ability: Guts
252 HP, 176 Def, 80 S.Def
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Payback
- Cross Chop

Status happy Blisseys can’t touch this. Guts + 100 Base Power Payback sound like fun

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Timid
44 HP, 232 S.Def, 232 Spd
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Destiny Bond
- Pain Split

Replaced over Spiritomb

Fighting immunity and Anti-CMer, best thing I have to an Ape counter sadly, Destiny Bond for taking out said pokes and other things I may not be able to handle for a revenge kill or the expected Pursuiter switch ins bar Weavile who is faster.

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Impish Nature (+Def – S.Atk)
244 HP, 192 Def, 72 Spd
- Roost
- Aerial Ace
- Counter
- Earthquake

Not going with Ice Fang as it's a 2HKO and I dont want to deal with Sand Veil Haxes, Counter KOs it among other things, recently took out a Gyara with it

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Careful Nature (+S.Def – S.Atk)
Ability: Thick Fat
204 HP, 52 Atk, 252 S.Def
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Crunch
- Earthquake

Replaced Tentacruel, seeing as it's lack of recovery and inability to hit hard werent doing much for me, counters Magenzone and Heatran

Lucario @ Life Orb
Naïve Nature (+Spd – S.Def)
68 Atk, 212 S.Atk, 228 Spd
- HP Ice
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere
- Close Combat

Wanted to test this out for ages now, went with Aura Sphere for Skarm and Forretress, late game sweeper, always lands a surprise KO







Hoping this one fairs better than my last 2 teams. It's very difficult to build a team when you refuse to use many of the same old top OU walls, Blissey, Jirachi, Celebi, Cresselia, Bronzong, Forretress, Starmie and such

Rate plz



[Credit to me for the pics except Mismagius and Machamp]

 

[EmpoleonStaraptorStarch]

Well... In all honesty your team may fall to the rising OU threat, the Muk set of mine!!! RAWR! Truly, the only thing that might take it down would be your gliscor or WoW spiritomb. Ok. Now back to the team rate (I just had to tell people about my amazing Muk! lol XD). I've never used any of those OU Walls, not even Dusknoir, and I've won a lot of battles. It's not in the stats all in all... it's more in technique. The only way Machamp wll be able to do much is if Status is up... and with Sleep Talk the I guess it gets it... But still, Brick Break is just too weak to deal with on a set with no attack EV's and a neutral nature. Sure it gets rid of screens, but you can outlast them with your good, bulky basis. I'd go with toxic spikes on tentacruel. But if you do... You better be pretty dang sure you can set up more than one! Otherwise it's a FAILQUAKE! Cuz when ScarfComp comes out and is normally poisoned and you can't willowisp it with tomb, you are in a mess. Aside from that it looks good on paper. Good luck!

 

[Blue Ace]

Well... In all honesty your team may fall to the rising OU threat, the Muk set of mine!!! RAWR! Truly, the only thing that might take it down would be your gliscor or WoW spiritomb. Ok. Now back to the team rate (I just had to tell people about my amazing Muk! lol XD). I've never used any of those OU Walls, not even Dusknoir, and I've won a lot of battles. It's not in the stats all in all... it's more in technique. The only way Machamp wll be able to do much is if Status is up... and with Sleep Talk the I guess it gets it... But still, Brick Break is just too weak to deal with on a set with no attack EV's and a neutral nature. Sure it gets rid of screens, but you can outlast them with your good, bulky basis. I'd go with toxic spikes on tentacruel. But if you do... You better be pretty dang sure you can set up more than one! Otherwise it's a FAILQUAKE! Cuz when ScarfComp comes out and is normally poisoned and you can't willowisp it with tomb, you are in a mess. Aside from that it looks good on paper. Good luck!

Gliscor and Tomb can easily wall/stall physical Muk. W-o-W + Taunt and Muk fails to do much, while Pressure outstalls it and can no longer Curse, Explode, Sub-Punch and the like, worst come to worst, Gliscor can Counter and KO it

A special version could be a pain, though Gunk Shot vs. Pressure isnt a good match up and Focus Blast becomes a wasted moveslot. Gliscor can come in outspeed and KO with EQ as well

Same situation with ScarfChomp, it fails to do much to Gliscor and can easily use Counter on it for the KO, rather than wasting time with Sand Veil hax and 2HKOing with Ice Fang. Tomb isnt intended to stay in or do anything to Garchomp anyway

I'm starting to strongly consider T-Spikes on Tentacruel and W-o-W on Spiritomb now though...



Cross Chop is obviously preferred on Machamp, however the low PP and accuracy is just too unattractive, Besides Champ is starting to look like a good switch in to Celebi and to a lesser extent Cresselia which sometime run screens. T-Wave is happily taken from them and fires off a 100 Base Power (if attacked) super effective Payback coming off at an impressive attack stat of 444 with 0 Atk EVs and a neutral nature, same with a STAB Brick Break thus making it viable I suppose

 

[Hauntershadow92]

Looks good to me. Hope you don't mind if I steal that lead sooner or later

I can't see any weaknesses.

If your worried of Chomp, I think, Porygon and Gliscor w/ Ice Fang can deal.

 

[Kingdrom]

Hmm, at first glance it seems like a well built team.

Is there any particular reason for 370 Hp on Porygon 2? I would just max it, taking 8 ev's from each defense. It yields slightly better survivability. Magic Coat over Hp Ground would be what I would do, since reflecting a Hypnosis from Gengar, Yanmega, and even a Sleep Powder from Roserade is more useful to me than countering Magnezone and Heatran. I know Heatran isn't going to be very effective against Porygon 2 anyways. If you wish to use a Hidden Power, consider HP Fighting to hit Weavile and Tyranitar leads while retaining the ability to hit Heatran and Magnezone hard, both of which do not have instant recovery.

With Guts and no attack Ev's, Machamp pales in comparison to Hariyama, which does the defensive fighting type job better. For this reason, if you wish to keep Machamp, change the nature to No Guard and use DynamicPunch and Ice Punch for attacking moves. Machamp is much harder to counter when he is confusing his opponents for as long as Dynamicpunch's PP lasts (8 pp is enough while using Sleep Talk). Personally, I use Guts Resttalk Hariyama (with Cross Chop and Ice Punch) on my team and it works wonders.

I haven't used Spiritomb or know much about him but your set seems to be fine.

I have never been a fan of 244 speed since everyone else runs it. If you want to be creative, run a few extra speed ev's to outspeed Heracross, Celebi, and the others at 244. Just no more than 254 Speed (outspeeds Modest Heatran, who will OHKO in return with Fire Blast if you don't outspeed (not that you see many nonscarfed Modest Heatrans though)). Yache Berry for Magnezone simply isn't needed, Magnezone won't come in on Gliscor. Magnezone has a problem coming in on this team anyway, there's no need to be paranoid about him.

Instead of Tentacruel, try Zapdos. With a Calm Nature and Thunderbolt/Hp Ice/Roost/Sub, he can deal with Sceptile well enough while still countering Mixape well. Most of all, he can block status and heal while countering bulky waters (except Swampert). Also, Gliscor+Zapdos work as an effective defensive core (when paired with Celetran, but they're okay alone too).

Lucario needs an attack boosting nature rather than speed. Run max speed on Lucario. It ties with other Lucarios and, more importantly, outspeeds max speed unscarfed Heatran, who isn't very nice to Lucario when Lucario is outsped. Otherwise he looks fine. I would take the Ev's out of attack because Close Combat will OHKO most Blisseys since they don't carry many HP ev's anymore. You could even drop Close Combat for another move (Vacuum Wave maybe?) because Blissey would be stupid to even consider switching into a Lucario (change nature to Modest if you try that).



Otherwise, good job. I don't see any glaring weaks that haven't been acknowledged already.

 

[Blue Ace]

Is there any particular reason for 370 Hp on Porygon 2? I would just max it, taking 8 ev's from each defense. It yields slightly better survivability. Magic Coat over Hp Ground would be what I would do, since reflecting a Hypnosis from Gengar, Yanmega, and even a Sleep Powder from Roserade is more useful to me than countering Magnezone and Heatran. I know Heatran isn't going to be very effective against Porygon 2 anyways. If you wish to use a Hidden Power, consider HP Fighting to hit Weavile and Tyranitar leads while retaining the ability to hit Heatran and Magnezone hard, both of which do not have instant recovery.

Im still etching out the EVs myself to be honest, those are just some I had written down somewhere and slapped them on for the time being. I'll un some calcs and see damage comparisons, otherwise I'll go with your suggestion for the time being

I'll probably end up keeping Magic Coat, the lulz factor from it is just far too good to pass up. I also dont see the need for HP Fighting, since Machamp counters them fine and Gliscor to a lesser extent for TTar. Also the fact that they can potentially 2HKO P2 while i fail to OHKO, HP Ground deals a 2HKO if not better to Heatran and Magnezone

With Guts and no attack Ev's, Machamp pales in comparison to Hariyama, which does the defensive fighting type job better. For this reason, if you wish to keep Machamp, change the nature to No Guard and use DynamicPunch and Ice Punch for attacking moves. Machamp is much harder to counter when he is confusing his opponents for as long as Dynamicpunch's PP lasts (8 pp is enough while using Sleep Talk). Personally, I use Guts Resttalk Hariyama (with Cross Chop and Ice Punch) on my team and it works wonders.

Tried Hariyama, wasnt as good as I thought it would be, though it wasnt ResTalk which might have been a factor....

Regardless Guts Machamp has more power than Guts Hariyama even after the boost, and I really don't feel the need to give up its intended bulkiness for some attack which is gained from Guts anyway. Hariyama is always better off with Thick Fat as well, for Heatran countering and such, which Machamp cant do in return.

No Guard Dynamic Punch is too predictable really, and with so many Pressure ability pokes and Ghosts running around, and the fact that it cant really hit that hard with the small Atk EV investment, if any, that it'll get, it'll find itself running out of PP fast. Though it's probably worth some testing I suppose, especially since it phazes

I have never been a fan of 244 speed since everyone else runs it. If you want to be creative, run a few extra speed ev's to outspeed Heracross, Celebi, and the others at 244. Just no more than 254 Speed (outspeeds Modest Heatran, who will OHKO in return with Fire Blast if you don't outspeed (not that you see many nonscarfed Modest Heatrans though)). Yache Berry for Magnezone simply isn't needed, Magnezone won't come in on Gliscor. Magnezone has a problem coming in on this team anyway, there's no need to be paranoid about him.

I was intending to play the speed game, though the trade off from reliable walling and diminishing Counter's use just didnt seem like it would be worth it.
Outpacing Jolly TTar and Breloom is fine with me really.

Scarf Heatran will want to spam Fire Blast which 2 and Cruel can take just fine, and Earth Power can be absorbed by Gliscor who can just OHKO with EQ as it'll either be locked into it or be outspeed if it is ResTalker, though I'll probably look into Specs Heatran speed investment, most run Modest so it's safe to assume it wont be outspeeding.

Yache Berry was for Gliscor coming in and breaking Magnezone's sub whilst it HP Ices him. Not for Mag coming in on him. and it does get chances to come, especially on the revenge kill or any move bar W-o-W/ Taunt on Tomb and Discharge on 2, since it outspeeds them both it can get behind a sub which both have a heard time breaking, and proceed to be a pain. Also comes in Tentacruel's Rapid Spin and T-Spikes, and cant hit him hard enough to make him think twice about staying in or break a sub

Instead of Tentacruel, try Zapdos. With a Calm Nature and Thunderbolt/Hp Ice/Roost/Sub, he can deal with Sceptile well enough while still countering Mixape well. Most of all, he can block status and heal while countering bulky waters (except Swampert). Also, Gliscor+Zapdos work as an effective defensive core (when paired with Celetran, but they're okay alone too).

This is the 2nd time this was brought up, I didnt really want to resort to using legendaries, since Shoddy screws them over, and it's a pain to get perfect if not half way decent one in the game, let alone one that you have to trade for or migrate. If Tentacruel fails me in testing then Zapdos will come in I suppose, though the inability to counter Heatran and the fact that it needs spin support is really troubling

Lucario needs an attack boosting nature rather than speed. Run max speed on Lucario. It ties with other Lucarios and, more importantly, outspeeds max speed unscarfed Heatran, who isn't very nice to Lucario when Lucario is outsped. Otherwise he looks fine. I would take the Ev's out of attack because Close Combat will OHKO most Blisseys since they don't carry many HP ev's anymore. You could even drop Close Combat for another move (Vacuum Wave maybe?) because Blissey would be stupid to even consider switching into a Lucario (change nature to Modest if you try that).

It OHKOs Blissey which is about the only poke its going to use CC on, and the fact that I only have 1 physical attack move, so im not sure why an Atk boosting nature would help?

The set I have there outspeeds neutral base 100's running max speed, though seldom that they'd be running that amount of speed, its always assuring that they wont get the jump on me in case they do. Tieing with other Lukes really isnt good enough since it can tear quite a chunk out of the team if I lose the coin flip, my set ouspeeds other Lukes, bar Scarf or +Spd Nature with Max EVs, which are idiotic

Otherwise, good job. I don't see any glaring weaks that haven't been acknowledged already.

Thanks for your input, going with your P2 EV suggestion, keeping Magic Coat and considering/testing No Guard + DynamicPunch Champ, and maybe Zapdos

 

[Lord of Music]

The fact that you run Impish and no Attack EVs on Machamp implies that Machamp is more of a bulky tank than an attacker. there is no problem with this, however, look at it. Lucario is your only other physical sweeper (in a way). Champ isn't going to be dealing major damage with that setup, and you should really, really consider making it a bit more sweeper-oriented.

Machamp @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Guts
252 HP / 56 Atk / 44 Def / 156 SDef
Impish / Adamant
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Stone Edge
- Cross Chop

Machamp is one of my favorite pokemon to use, and this set is a good place to start customizing your own. First- nature. I personally really, really like Guts+Cross Chop. SImilar to Guts+Brick Break, but Machamp is bulky enough to miss once in a while. Plus, you have Rest. Cross Chop's crit rate really turns me on. Next, EVs. Well, basically redistributing the EVs of that spread are based on team needs and personal preference: do you waNT Champ to be a better sweeper? Or to take hits better? All I can say about the EVs are that you usually want to focus on HP first, then Attack or Special Defense, then Defense.
Moves. Fighting+Rock is ideal, as it gets the best coverage. Payback is a very cool move to hit Cresselia and Dusknoir hard. Ice Punch hits Gliscor and the Dragons harder, though not much else. For the nature, keep Impish if you plan to stay with your spread that focuses a lot on Defense. Otherwise, Adamant.

That's just my take on Machamp. Not much I can say about the team that hasn't alrady been said. gj.

 

[Kingdrom]

I meant a special attack boosting nature... sorry I was in a hurry.

Unless I'm mistaken, on a speed boosting Lucario, it is best to run either max speed or 280/285. I'm unaware of anything that sits at 295 except for Heracross and Toxicroak, and it's a speed tie with them anyways.

 

[Blue Ace]

LOM has convinced me to go with Cross Chop on Machamp

Posted a log under Porygon 2 in the 1st post, worth the read and lulzworthy

and a bump

 

[Ludakrix]

Haha

thats a great log.

Porygon2 is just very underappreciated when it comes to leading, and i never thought about how bad it could screw over teams. Good job.

 

[Ludakrix]

Haha

thats a great log.

Porygon2 is just very underappreciated when it comes to leading, and i never thought about how bad it could screw over teams. Good job.

 

[Blue Ace]

Bump again

as I thought I got swept by a Magnezone, Tentacruel and Spiritomb arent cutting it now, im considering going with Snorlax and a Mismagius for screwing over CMers, most notibly CMCress which is now becoming more common then even the ResTalk versions now and Celebi which Tomb failed to stop, so i'm going to need some help coming up with an effective spread and moveset, for the time being i'm going to just bull it

 

[Hauntershadow92]

By the way, your Porygon 2 has 14 more EVs than allowed.