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Battle Spot Doubles team with Minun, Xurkitree, Suicune, and others

Discussion in '7th Gen RMT' started by Sceptile Leaf Blade, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Happy Minun

    I've had quite a lot of success with this team so far. Currently doing a streak in the Battle Tree, 135 wins at the time of writing and still going. This team isn't intended for VGC19, it's for formats without restricted legends.

    [​IMG] Suicune @ Iapapa Berry
    Ability: Inner Focus / Pressure
    252 HP, 100 Def, 100 Sp.Atk, 52 Sp.Def, 4 Speed
    Bold nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Calm Mind
    - Tailwind

    Suicune is one of my core pokémon, I use it a lot and usually lead with it. It's impressive bulk combined with speed control in Tailwind is excellent support, and with Calm Mind it has offensive presence, especially in taking out ground types like Landorus. I'm not entirely sure where I got this EV spread, but it has served me incredibly well in giving a strong balance between power and bulk, and the final 4 EVs are spent in Speed as to not waste them. I've got two separate Suicune like this, the one with Inner Focus is my preferred ability and is a Crystal transfer, while the one with Pressure is from the Ultra Wormholes. Inner Focus allows it to ignore flinching on the opening turn prior to acquiring Volt Absorb, primarily from Fake Out from Incineroar and Kangaskhan. Scald and Ice Beam are the offensive moves and give decent coverage, Scald is also a nice get-out-of-freeze option. The Iapapa Berry has served me very well, it's very rarely that Suicune goes down without having consumed it first (Knock Off aside), and it gives Suicune more breathing room in its setup in the opening turns of the battle.

    [​IMG] Minun @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed
    Timid nature
    - Discharge
    - Encore
    - Entrainment
    - Fake Tears

    Minun is the pokémon I lead most often with Suicune. It's primary job is to get Volt Absorb on Suicune, and its decent speed stat helps with that. Once Suicune has Volt Absorb, its secondary job is to stall enemy momentum with Encore (Encoring stuff like Fake Out or an electric attack), spread paralysis with Discharge, and support the partner in an unexpected KO with Fake Tears. Minun doesn't tend to last too long, but it usually lasts long enough to at least get Volt Absorb on Suicune and get one more move off, giving Suicune the opening to set up. Discharge also heals Suicune once it has Volt Absorb. Max speed is vital for Minun to get Entrainment off as fast as possible, and it also helps a lot with Encore. A fast Entrainment means Minun goes before some electric attacks in that speed range, like Zapdos's Thunderbolt, so I can give Suicune Volt Absorb and allow it to absorb Zapdos's Thunderbolt, and then on the next turn Encore Zapdos into Thunderbolt. Max Sp.Atk is less vital, Minun isn't doing that much damage anyway, but it does help to get enemies a little bit down to make it easier for Xurkitree to get KOs with Discharge later and gather Beast Boost, and Minun doesn't really need much bulk, it usually goes down to be replaced by Xurkitree.

    [​IMG] Xurkitree @ Electrium Z
    Ability: Beast Boost
    148 HP, 4 Def, 252 Sp.Atk, 4 Sp.Def, 100 Speed
    Modest nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Discharge
    - Dazzling Gleam
    - Protect

    Xurkitree is there to nuke things. It is EVd to outspeed Adamant Scarf Garchomp with Tailwind support. Maximum Sp.Atk investment with a Modest nature allows it to hit as hard as possible, and the rest is placed in HP for bulk. The 8 EVs in the defences are there for rounding reasons at level 50, it's more efficient to get two stat points for them like this than 1 stat point in HP. Protect is vital to allow Xurkitree to survive while Suicune sets up Tailwind. Xurkitree can either go for a spread damage Discharge, healing Suicune or Minun in the process, and finish off weakened (or Electric-weak) opponents at the same time, or go for a more focused nuke with Gigavolt Havoc or Thunderbolt in case something has to be taken out quickly. Dazzling Gleam is a spread option to which nothing is immune and it can help cover Dragon types. Usually the combination of Suicune, Minun, and Xurkitree already wins me games.

    [​IMG] Sceptile @ Sceptilite
    Ability: Overgrow
    4 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed
    Timid nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Frenzy Plant

    Sceptile is a fast pinch-hitter that can usually get a KO. It's not bulky and has several weaknesses, but its speed is tremendous, outspeeding most foes when both sides have Tailwind up, and its offensive power is impressive. Sceptile also benefits from running next to either Minun or Xurkitree with its Lightning Rod. Sceptile is very useful in destroying Water/Ground types like Gastrodon and Swampert, and it can take out Dragon types like Salamence if it needs to as well. Focus Blast is a bit inaccurate, but it's Sceptile's best option against Steel types like Kartana. Frenzy Plant might seem strange, I used to run Leaf Storm here, but in practice I found that Sceptile was crippled badly by Leaf Storm's Sp.Atk drop causing me to only use it to finish off the final pokémon of the opponent or to deal as much damage as possible right before going down, and I realised that in those situations Frenzy Plant just hits harder. The recharging turn is not important if Sceptile goes down in the same turn or it's the last turn of the battle.

    [​IMG] Heatran @ Wiki Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    252 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 4 Sp.Def
    Modest nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Earth Power
    - Flash Cannon
    - Protect

    Heatran is powerful. It can't absorb Discharges but it can destroy things like Ferrothorn, Kartana, and especially Tapu Bulu that are otherwise troublesome. Max Sp.Atk to hit as hard as possible, the rest is invested into bulk as Heatran can tank a lot of hits that aren't Earthquake. Protect is there for the same reason as on Xurkitree. Heatran is specifically chosen because of its good matchup against most Grass types like Tapu Bulu combined with its overall tremendous type, bulk, and power. Its speed is average but sufficient with Tailwind support.

    [​IMG] Vikavolt @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    252 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 4 Sp.Def
    Quiet nature (0 Speed IV)
    - Discharge
    - Bug Buzz
    - Energy Ball
    - Protect

    Vikavolt is more or less a replacement for Xurkitree in the case the enemy has a Trick Room team. Vikavolt is slow, with a Life Orb hits slightly harder than Xurkitree does, but it doesn't have the single-target nuking option on the Electric side Xurkitree has in both Thunderbolt and Gigavolt Havoc. I haven't used Vikavolt too much as Trick Room doesn't seem to be too common nowadays, but in the case the enemy runs it Vikavolt is a good option (running something like Suicune + Minun + Vikavolt + Heatran).

    If you want to see how this runs in practice, here's a battle code to show how it runs against a typical VGC18 team: L3VG-WWWW-WWWU-9RZS

    Edit: If you want to try this team out yourself, here is a link to the QR battle team I uploaded. Scan the QR code in your game on team select to access it in the battle spot or at the battle tree.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  2. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 Trust The Process

    Love the strategy with your first two Pokemon and I think it’s really creative! Suicune’s spread I believe is a common one from VGC 2015, so it could probably use some optimization if you would bring the team onto the competitive scene, but for the Battle Tree the general bulk is great. Electroweb is an idea over Fake Tears or Encore to regain the speed advantage over teams that match Tailwind, but the set is fine even without it. I really don’t think outspeeding Scarf Garchomp is relevant unless you run into that a lot in the Battle Tree. Online you’ll only need to outspeed Scarf Lele (or at least Landorus-T). Does Sceptile hit hard enough without a +1 boost (other than grass-weak targets, because I agree the grass coverage is needed)? Online I would at least add Protect though. Heatran is fine though a better (even more boring) option would be Incineroar, and I’m not sure what Vikavolt does that Xurk doesn’t already give you.

    I could see hyper offensive teams that outspeed you potentially being disruptive, hard-Trick Room teams being a major threat, and adding a couple of physical attackers if you were to bring the team onto Battle Spot would likely be beneficial since the entire team is special attackers.
     
  3. Det. Viper

    Det. Viper Well-Known Member

    That Suicune / Minun combo is genius. I played a couple tree matches with it and had a blast with it. With Minun I never really used Fake Tears so I agree with EKZ that Electro Web would be helpful for speed control in the battle. With the bulk Suicune has lowering special attack seems redundant to me. But if you are primarily going into the Battle Tree with it then it’s not a huge issue.

    I also agree with EKZ that this team is very lacking on the physical side. All 6 Pokémon use special moves. I never used Vikivolt while playing your team and it seems to be the least useful of the bunch. I would bring in a physical sweeper just for some balance. Dragonite (Dragon Claw, Extreme Speed, Aqua Tail [to deal with opposing ground types], Dragon Dance/Protect) would be my pick and does seem out of place. I’ve been toying with using a weakness policy on it coupled with multi scale to mostly positive results. Otherwise VGC CurseLax is another fun option I like to use.

    With you primarily tackling the tree I don’t see any major issues with the team. It’s a fun out of the box team that should throw a lot of people off. Well done.
     
  4. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Happy Minun

    Sceptile does hit hard enough in my experience. At level 50 it has 197 Sp.Atk once mega evolved, it can 2KO most targets on neutral hits, or OHKO things on super effective. It can finish off weakened foes just fine. Electroweb on Minun is an interesting idea. I haven't had the chance to test it out yet, I've been busy with the Online Competition of the past weekend (which used a completely different team). I don't want to sacrifice Encore for it, it's an incredible move that hinders Incineroar tremendously due to the latter's tendency to use Fake Out, and it's even more valuable in the Battle Tree as the AI doesn't properly know how to deal with it (it never switches when locked into an attacking move, but always switches when locked into a status move, making it very predictable), but I guess I can try it out instead of Fake Tears.

    Incineroar I hadn't actually used before this weekend's competition and I'm pleasantly surprised. It is a strong pokémon indeed. I'll have to test it out instead of Heatran.

    Vikavolt primarily gives me low speed for Trick Room conditions. It's very situational and I'm not using it much, there are teams out there that are somewhat half-Trick-Room half-fast and I'm never sure whether to take it along or not. I do wonder what I could replace it with, maybe one of the Tapus.

    Regarding only having special attackers, I've actually never run into any problems on the battle spot due to it (in I guesstimate about 70ish battles). Physical attackers tend to have trouble with Intimidates which are quite common nowadays, if you look at the battle video I posted in the opening post keep attention to how low Suicune's attack goes. It goes all the way to -5 by the end of the battle. In the Battle Tree it sometimes struggles slightly with Blissey, but Blissey lacks offensive presence so I can generally wear it down, and with Assault Vest Snorlax, but Fake Tears from Minun comes in there. They become much more manageable after one or two Fake Tears. Xurkitree's Gigavolt Havoc also hits so ridiculously hard, especially with a Beast Boost or two, it tends to just break through those kinds of walls.

    When it comes to outspeeding Scarf Tapu Lele and Landorus, do you know if they usually run speed-boosting natures or Modest/Adamant natures on Scarf sets? I can look at PGL for stats but they only show natures on overall usage, not specifically for Scarf sets.

    Fake Tears lowers special defence, not special attack. See it a bit like an upgraded Helping Hand, only it usually gives a 100% boost (since it lowers enemy Sp.Def by two stages) rather than a 50% boost, and the debuff lasts until the enemy is taken out or switches, rather than until the end of the turn.
     

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