Battle System Change Discussion Thread

[MidnightMelody]

Not everyone has good reflexes, you know. Such people can't handle real time action. They are drawn to Pokemon for its simple combat system.

It is just so hard to imagine people having trouble with things like QTE or button mashing. Well button mashing I can get since sometimes the controller likes to be a douche.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah. I really don't want Pokemon to turn into a mindless button masher.

 

[Orphalesion]

Well stuff like that can be a good way to improve reflexes, actually, but that's not really the issue. Either you enjoy button mashing or you don't.

IDK I think it is hard to please everyone since personally I prefer action jrpgs these days like KH and FFXV and it seems they are becoming the norm. With that said I got into jrpgs more recently than others who might have been playing since the 90s so my views might differ. As long as it is not Digimon world style I am good.

Thing is, action rpgs are the norm these days, so it's nice to have some series to employ a turn-based version, just for variety. Like I'd still be playing Final Fantasy AND Kingdom Hearts, if they stuck with the ATB system in FF and left the real time action one in KH (and especially with FF XV, which might as well be a Elder Scrolls installment I gotta ask why I should play it). Variety. Not every game has to play the same.

For a Pokemon real time battles and button mashing experience, there's already Pokken.

 

[MidnightMelody]

Well stuff like that can be a good way to improve reflexes, actually, but that's not really the issue. Either you enjoy button mashing or you don't.



Thing is, action rpgs are the norm these days, so it's nice to have some series to employ a turn-based version, just for variety. Like I'd still be playing Final Fantasy AND Kingdom Hearts, if they stuck with the ATB system in FF and left the real time action one in KH (and especially with FF XV, which might as well be a Elder Scrolls installment I gotta ask why I should play it). Variety. Not every game has to play the same.

For a Pokemon real time battles and button mashing experience, there's already Pokken.

Which all I hear is that is how the main series should be from everyone. Truth is I thing fans of turn based are dying out. I mean I get it since it is slow and dull. But I get it is your view on liking them so don't think I'm trying to be a dick or anything.

 

[Orphalesion]

so don't think I'm trying to be a dick or anything.

What would give me that idea?

 

[MidnightMelody]

What would give me that idea?

IDK I just sometimes feel I'm coming off too passionate about my hopes for a series that sometimes I come of as a dick

 

[Zold]

The concept/idea I originally suggested wasn't really about mashing buttons though ^_^! It might sound as short, but 5 seconds is really A LOT of time. Pressing one button in 5 seconds gives plenty of room for tactical judgements.

 

[RileyXY1]

The concept/idea I originally suggested wasn't really about mashing buttons though ^_^! It might sound as short, but 5 seconds is really A LOT of time. Pressing one button in 5 seconds gives plenty of room for tactical judgements. Ask yourself, do I need more than 5 seconds to make a move in game? Probably, in most cases, the answer is no.

No it doesn't. It turns the game into a mindless button masher and I don't want that to happen.

 

[agent9149]

They can improve on the turnbased system. The way it is, is very ancient and might be too slow.

 

[Orphalesion]

There's actually quite a few recent games that do have turn based systems; the South Park games and a number of indie titles like Undertale. They do try to increase player-interaction by adding dodging techniques, I guess I'd be alright with that.

 

[Storm the Lycanroc]

Something most players won't realize is there's lots of math going during battles. It's not just choosing Move A and hoping it hits. The battle system has to calculate damage based on each Pokemons type, stats, items, etc. I don't know how they would implement that in a real time strategy scenario.

I think a turn based system is better because it allows the player to focus on that strategy.

 

[FrozTKnight]

There's actually quite a few recent games that do have turn based systems; the South Park games and a number of indie titles like Undertale. They do try to increase player-interaction by adding dodging techniques, I guess I'd be alright with that.

I don't think that will work. Dodging won't work if moves keep their accuracy check and the accuracy stat stays.

And if they do remove it most abilities and moves that ignore accuracy or rely on it would become worthless.

2 turn moves would be hard to use

1HKO moves will a constant danger and will have to be removed

It would mess up most 0f the meta and gameplay.

 

[Orphalesion]

I think a turn based system is better because it allows the player to focus on that strategy.

^Pretty much this. To me real time is more boring that turn based because there tends to be less focus on strategy.

 

[RileyXY1]

^Pretty much this. To me real time is more boring that turn based because there tends to be less focus on strategy.

And Pokemon is pretty much about strategy. There's a reason why the Pokemon competitive community is as big as it is.

 

[CMButch]

Why would they change battle system? It's same as; what if Call of Duty's system changed to turn based. It doesn't fit. That's what makes Pokemon unique and special: turn-based system. Taking it away, would mess up with strategy and tactics..especially for competitive players.I think they should leave TB system to main core games but change it in side games like Pokken and Pokepark.

 

[Zold]

No it doesn't. It turns the game into a mindless button masher and I don't want that to happen.

I don't think you understand the concept of 'button mashing' very well if you call pressing a button once every 5 seconds, button mashing /shrug. Go play a game of Pokemon and ask yourself how many turns, especially in the story, you play within 5 seconds. I'd say that's the vast majority unless you're like a really slow player. Feel like you're thinking waaaaay out of proportions here. In button mash games, you press 3 buttons a second, not 1 every 5 seconds.

What I consider moreoverly 'mindless' is people calculating their next move to see if it deals enough damage. You have to know that by heart, and be able to make the judgements in your head, in a fast paced manner.

In either case, it's just an idea, one that's unlikely to ever be implemented. There's no real reason to get mixed up over it.

 

[Orphalesion]

Go play a game of Pokemon and ask yourself how many turns, especially in the story, you play within 5 seconds. I'd say that's the vast majority unless you're like a really slow player..

So basically it's what happens anyway making a change that enforces that timelimit against the user's wishes....absolutely superfluous and unnecessary.

 

[Zold]

Indeed, it wouldn't matter a lot for casual players, but it would make a ton of difference for competitive ^_^. I don't know if you're familliar with competitive, but people abuse time-stalling mechanics to win in VGC. In singles, turns last artificially long because people grab their calculators before they make a move. I don't think a lot of players like waiting 30 seconds on their opponent to make a move. So I think it would be best for both ends, adding a lot of engagement to the game.

I don't dislike the current battle system though, but I think it could be made more engaging. To me, a battle is just totally killed when my opponent takes 30-60s for every move. No fun in that really. This would solve that problem and make the game more engaging while doing it.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Isn't there usually a 45 second time limit per move already? It's there at least for the PGL tournaments. I think 5 seconds is too short, the lag over GameFreak's servers is already more than that. And I sometimes check out some things (like which of my pokémon has better defence or better speed or whatever) or take a bit of time thinking of a move. 5 seconds is barely enough to pull a double switch in doubles without missing a button. At least I've never seen timer stall on the battle spot or on the online tournaments. It's primarily your own time that you waste by stalling and once you run out of time you lose.

 

[Orphalesion]

And in general wouldn't it be better to change the tournament rules if people feel that 45 seconds is too long rather than make a change that affects all players (causal and competitive)

I mean I totally get that stalling can make a competition tedious, completely, but if it's about the competitions then it's better to change the rules for them than to change the game.