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Battling a Thaw in Relations! (656)

Discussion in 'Pokémon - Diamond & Pearl: Sinnoh League Victors' started by Serebii, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. This battle still gives me chills, probably the best battle of the entire anime imo. The best part was when Infernape's blaze was activated in the most epic way and battled it out with Electivire.
  2. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Paul's team against Ash just left me feeling a little unsatisfied, I know. Paul used some of them purely on strategy but it would have been better to have seen him use Torterra, Ursaring, Magmortar, and Honchkrow.Ash has never stood a chance at ever defeating his Torterra, it's been traveling with Paul since day one and recieved intense training along the way.
  3. Xenon Blue

    Xenon Blue No Hard Feelings

    Watching this episode to relieve some disappointment from the Kalos league finale... it's somewhat working. The nostalgia is real.
  4. Mrs. Oreo

    Mrs. Oreo Banned

    Poor Gliscor and Pikachu losing to Electivire although I liked how Electivire used his cables to grab onto them. Electivire vs Infernape had such amazing animation and I loved the inclusion of that Type Wild song. :D
  5. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    What a spectacular finish to one of the greatest full battles of all time. I was pleased that Elekible versus Goukazaru was the final match-up since it was a showdown of ex-friend versus ex-friend. Shinji took his loss much easier than I thought he would, too. I'm glad that he seemed to respect Satoshi.
  6. Paul1985

    Paul1985 Ana de Armas fan

    Fantastic episode and I'm glad Ash finally defeated Paul.
  7. Wednesdayz

    Wednesdayz Banned

    I thought the battle was pretty good. From memory, I'd say it's the best we've seen from the Leagues. Although I think it would have been better if Torterra took down Drapion, thus proving its strength in taking down a powerful Pokemon it has a disadvantage against.
  8. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    My only major issue with this episode was that after the match, Satoshi's small chat with Shinji was too short. I wish Shinji had gotten more dialogue and had stayed to watch the next round.
  9. Alloutℯ

    Alloutℯ Banned

    Ash finally proved his superior to Paul, though I'm a bit disappointed by Paul's loss. His Electivire should've attacked Inferape when it was down instead of letting him get back up.
  10. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    Frankly, I wish that we could've seen Satoshi's Goukazaru defeat Shinji's Elekible with his regular strength instead of him falling back on Blaze as a crutch. If he'd won on his own terms, it would've shown us how far he'd developed.
    Genaller likes this.
  11. Vulpicks

    Vulpicks Well-Known Member

    Absolutely amazing episode. The best part was actually after the battle, such a great send-off for Paul's character and their intense rivalry.

    Paul also praised his Electivire, and even Infernape too!
  12. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 ^Probably Steven Universe?

    yep, easily my favourite ep in the series, my only issue is paul not really getting any retribution, but aside from that, just a glorious episode
  13. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    This just further proves that Paul was the true winner,Infernape was down on the ground and the referee should have immediately declared it unable to battle.
  14. Daizy

    Daizy I call you honey

    I wish that the finale had involved Electivire vs. Torterra instead of Infernape for the hundredth time.
  15. TheNewGuy

    TheNewGuy Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but narratively it absolutely had to be Infernape. The whole story was built around that.
  16. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Still a great battle, but I wonder how it'd look in XY's animation. DP's animation is a bit dated now, 9 years later.
    mehmeh1 likes this.
  17. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Samayo Kiri, Keeper of the Gates Ethereal

    This 3-episode arc is the pinnacle of everything that is awful about the DP saga. It glorifies the abusive Trainer and consistently holds him on a higher pedestal than Ash, who is by far the superior one morally. At this point, Ash should be crushing Paul without a second thought, because Paul's methods should not work, as they have not worked before or since without brainwashing (or some other form of coercion [shock collars, hostages, etc.]) being a factor.

    But no, the writers refuse to have their pet humiliated as he deserved.

    EDIT: And what irony that people praise this fight as strategic when strategy did nothing and brute force was allowed to win in the end. Only Froslass and Ninjask did anything resembling strategy. Drapion and Electivire used no strategy to defeat their opponents, and they are the only Pokemon on Paul's team that got knockouts. Grabbing someone does not constitute a strategy.

    At the start, it looks like Ash will crush Paul at the beginning given Infernape's take down of Aggron and Buizel's take down of Gastrodon.
    And then Drapion comes in and proceeds to knock out 3 of Ash's Pokemon because the writers refuse to have Paul learn his lesson and continue letting him beat Ash far beyond the point in the narrative where it's appropriate (it stopped being appropriate in DP060).
    Ninjask and Froslass do nothing of note and get taken out near instantaneously, which means that essentially Paul is fighting a 4 on 6 battle.
    Gliscor comes in and finally eliminates Drapion but is quickly defeated by Electivire who also defeats Pikachu easily.

    And then the abomination of a fight happens. Infernape vs Electivire. Infernape is on the ground for 20 seconds. This is far longer than any other Pokemon in the series, and even in this VERY MATCH, has ever been allowed to stay completely down as Infernape was. Paul continues shouting abusive words at Infernape even though it has long since ceased to be his Pokemon. When Infernape finally gets up and activates Blaze, one of the worst things in Pokemon is stated by Reggie: that Ash must have wanted Infernape to miss simply to trigger Blaze. Ash at the beginning of DP would never have considered forcefully activating Blaze because it would require deliberately injuring his Pokemon. But Paul has dragged Ash down to his level, because the writers will not let Paul lose unless Ash loses his moral high ground. In the end, Ash wins on an unsatisfying technicality instead of the absolute destruction he should have lain down in the vein of an inverse Lake Acuity.

    Everything about this rivalry and every fight Ash and Paul have goes against the very core message of Pokemon that treating them with respect and friendship makes them far more powerful than the mere tools cruel people use them as.

    The message of this battle should be: Be like Ash! Look how much more powerful Ash is because he treats his Pokemon with genuine compassion!

    The message of this battle instead is: Be like Paul! Be as cruel and abusive as you want, because you'll easily be more powerful than everyone else (even though we've said a bunch of times before this only works if you're brainwashing the Pokemon) and only ever lose on technicalities!
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019

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