Battling & Getting! Mewtwo Comes Back (1135)

[BobbbidyBob]

Yeah, but he wasn't exactly interacting with them. Also I imagine it'd be hard to forget a kid that literally threw himself in the middle of your battle against Mew. I figured that would leave a somewhat lasting impression, y'know.

Oh, I forgot to mention. I lol'd so hard when Mewtwo asked Go just how is it that catching every Pokemon will lead to Mew. Thank you. Mewtwo asking what we've all wanted to. Go's answer was better than I expected, but it's still some weird logic tbh, since Go intended to catch Mew during this episode regardless of not having caught (and learned about?) every other pokemon yet.

Bruh couldn’t have put it better myself

What they should have done in this episode is animate the serebii fandom throwing coconuts at Mewtwo, Ash and Goh’s faces. Now that’s a good battle.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

Also, I just don't get it about Goh's explanation from the sub about his dream is to "catch and LEARN more about Pokemon", but many of his catchings were "just because" like the one just happened with the Krabby. What's with the "learning" more about Pokemon if what you did was just throwing the Pokeball when the Pokemon's jumping to you while you're crossing a tightrope? I just wish to see more of his "learning" about Pokemon rather than just "catch and forget" in future episodes.

I read it as Goh likes to capture them to update the dex and get more data about Pokémon. And considering what we've seen doing in the lab bits we've seen, it does appear he learns about them as he cares for them and observe how they act with the lab's enviroment.

Because Pikachu taking out legendary/pseudo-legendary Pokemon once per gen isn't enough?

It isn't. I love seeing Peakchu showing the elite who is the one true star in this universe!

You really can’t tell me that Cinderace and Lucario taking on Mewtwo’s attacks one after the other while Pikachu getting one-shot by a single Shadow Ball makes sense, without me looking at you funny.

I dunno but sometimes I feel like I don't mind this bit because it's the one time the show is actually consistent with the games in a way. I mean, Pikachu, for all its strenght, is still very frail so it makes sense if he falls down with a strong hit.

I am flummoxed that an Iwane battle episode had mediocre animation

Episode was Iwane?

That... So sad. It certainly didn't feel like his usual standard.

 

[Almighty Zard]

In that absolutely nothing of value was gotten from the returning characters, but its only goal was to back on nostalgia hype without properly using it. I mean, holy crap, Pikachu got screwed, and this is the Pikachu that beat a Tapu.

said Tapu was destroyed by a Z-move, which while an extension of it's abilities is not it's natural power, ask yourself if Ash used that attack against Mewtwo how much damage would it have done? Would Mewtwo have possibly gone down?

if either scenario happened Pikachu would be labeled as OP, even though that's not it's natural skill talking.

I honestly wonder how strong Leon's Charizard is without resorting to gigantamaxing but that's besides the point.

regardless I was content with how this episode was handled.

it wasn't perfect but then again no episode ever will be.

 

[Flypikachu]

I mean, Ash kind of acted like he knew Mewtwo, or at the very least he knew his name...

Mewtwo on the other hand treated Ash like a complete stranger. When Mewtwo commented on Ash's bond with Pokémon, it was almost as if he had never seen Ash interact with other Pokémon before...

Either way, the name dropping is as far as the continuity goes. There wasn't really any mention of the previous events nor it was outright stated that they knew each other.

Yeah this was exactly my main gripe from this episode... I really wish we would have at least gotten more of a reaction out of Mewtwo in terms of seeing Ash again, but instead we didn't really get anything... Which was disappointing to say the least.

 

[BobbbidyBob]

I’m hoping one day we get an actual episode focused on Mew and Goh instead of just having Mew simply giggling around once in a while.

 

[Dragonsoldier77]

Tbh it's kinda sad that chuck had amore meaningful interaction with ash that establishes their previous connection compared to mewtwo.

 

[BobbbidyBob]

Tbh it's kinda sad that chuck had amore meaningful interaction with ash that establishes their previous connection compared to mewtwo.

maybe Mewtwo will return and become more important throughout this season....who knows....

 

[British Soul]

One thing I find interesting about this episode is that the Pokemon in Mewtwo's group were references to animals used in cloning research IRL.

I know many others have said this on earlier pages, but I will echo their sentiment regarding the opening which has become outdated since... the last episode, but on the flipside it is something that isn't new to Pokemon, so I'll give it pass for now. The other minor nitpick is Go's pokedex doing the cringe "great" but y'know that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things so it's pointless even mentioning it.

There really isn't anything else to talk about other than the Mewtwo encounter to be perfectly honest. The first half didn't have as much substance as I would like, but Go caught more 'mons and failed to catch others. Anywho, watching the episode, I got the impression that it wasn't clear whether Mewtwo remembered Ash since the enounter at Mount Quena, however we know that because of said encounter, Ash recognised the Pokemon (and it is the first time Mewtwo has appeared in the main series without the M2 Bind armour back in season 1, and yes I am aware that the armour didn't have a name in the anime, the M2 Bind in Adventures resembled the armour seen in the anime). On the other hand, I suppose I shouldn't be shocked that the writers didn't have Mewtwo recognise Ash verbally as it would then prompt the viewers to re-watch Mewtwo Returns for context.
Mewtwo did have a point though, asking a question that many of us had, in this case, asking Go how catching all other Pokemon will lead to Mew and I'll admit, Go's answer was pretty good albeit the fact that he intended on acquiring Mew in the episode.
Onto the fight itself, I can't be too shocked that Pikachu was a fall guy here, the poor thing was pretty good early on, but he's been lacking lately. In any case, I was expecting a loss here to be fair. Though to put Ash's defeat in context, this episode shows that Ash was fortunate that Giovanni had emergency matters to attend to back in EP063 because if that was not the case, he wouldn't have gotten the Earth badge considering we know that Giovanni had bested Ash in the Meloetta arc during BW, not to mention Ash's squad back then were largely NFEs who initially struggled when TR used the gym's Pokemon and now Ash has lost to the same Pokemon that beat various other trainers who challenged the Viridian Gym, including Gary, and even though Ash has gone leaps and bounds since the Indigo league, Mewtwo was simply too strong for him even now.
But if this episode is any indicator, it's that we'll likely see Mewtwo again at some point as it's acting as a mutual wall for Ash and Go to overcome to reach their respective goals.

Also, thanks to Mew we finally got to see Autumn form Deerling in the series, and not gonna lie it completely glossed my mind that we hadn't seen all four formes of Deerling, whereas Sawsbuck had all four featured in one episode in BW.
One final note, considering this is the same Mewtwo from M01, we can likely expect Dan Green to voice Mewtwo (as he voiced Mewtwo in Mewtwo Returns and Mewtwo Strikes Back Evolution) when this episode gets dubbed.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

ask yourself if Ash used that attack against Mewtwo how much damage would it have done?

Nothing. Mewtwo would have dodged, which is the logical move to do. Unless he's uber strong, he can't be that stupid to wrestle a move like that away.

However, that scenario is just an improbable theory that they won't do right now. I would have expected Pikachu to last like four times longer than...what we all just saw.

 

[Psajdak]

Look at the episode when Satoshi reunites with Kasumi, and Takeshi in previous season.

That is how one shows familiarity with old characters.

EDIT: Or even with Alola gang not that long ago.

Mewtwo was a complete stranger.

 

[Mew29240]

Look at the episode when Satoshi reunites with Kasumi, and Takeshi in previous season.

That is how one shows familiarity with old characters.

EDIT: Or even with Alola gang not that long ago.

Mewtwo was a complete stranger.

I wouldn't say that. Ash was with Goh at the time, and one of the things Mewtwo hears him say is that he's looking for, and trying to catch, Mew. He's not going to engage in a full conservation about the past with someone unfamiliar within earshot who had similar aims as his creators did (though he realizes that Goh has very different motivations from them through their battle).

 

[Psajdak]

I wouldn't say that. Ash was with Goh at the time, and one of the things Mewtwo hears him say is that he's looking for, and trying to catch, Mew. He's not going to engage in a full conservation about the past with someone unfamiliar within earshot who had similar aims as his creators did (though he realizes that Goh has very different motivations from them through their battle).

Sorry, but that doesn't really mean anything.

No matter the reason the normal reunion reaction would have been to say stuff like Long time no see., or Never expected to meet you here., etc...

Mewtwo acted like he met them for the first time, and the whole episode overall felt like Satoshi, and Go had to gain trust of Mewtwo, and those other Pokemon.

Which is weird considering how big of an impact Satoshi had on Mewtwo, and the way he sees humans.

At best this Mewtwo was soft reboot.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

See, not having Shudo around pretty much bogged the sheer potential.

 

[Mew29240]

On another note, I kinda wished that Goh confronted Ash about his knowledge of Mewtwo. Goh's probably researched all the data regarding Mew he could find on the web (and elsewhere, if he "hunted" for Mew on his vacations with his parents like in the Tokio episode) and now he's encountered a Pokemon obviously related to Mew that he had no clue about that Ash is clearly aware of. If I had a friend who knew about my dream of catching Mew and they had information about something related to it that they didn't tell me, I'd want to talk to them about it.

Of course, Goh would better understand the situation when he learns of Mewtwo's backstory from Ash, but before that it would just be a big secret regarding Mew that he knew and didn't share with him.

 

[Spider-Phoenix]

I honestly wonder how strong Leon's Charizard is without resorting to gigantamaxing but that's besides the point.

My guess is that it's still strong but not as OP if the Eternatus episode is any indication.

Tbh it's kinda sad that chuck had amore meaningful interaction with ash that establishes their previous connection compared to mewtwo.

Maybe Tomiyasu and Kodaira like Chuck more? lol

But it's fun how things are:

Chuck came back but with a different VA. Yet, there was callbacks to his match against Ash, right down to showing Bayleaf!

Mewtwo comes back with the same VA. Yet, they avoid making references at all costs. For all we know, some could just assume Ash thought about the Mewtwo from Movie 16

See, not having Shudo around pretty much bogged the sheer potential.

I highly doubt it'd be better even if Shudo was still with us.

What we needed was a better director. Actually, it's what the show as a whole needs.

I just checked the page and Tomiyasu is creditted for the storyboard. Considering his current position it means he is way higher ranked than Shouji Yonemura (who wrote the episode). Yonemura being one of the two veterans who have been around since the show exists (the other is Tomioka by the way).

Either way, I digress. My point is that it's all on Tomiyasu because he was the one who decided the storyboard, aka how the story would play out. Even Yonemura, Asada ou Iwane couldn't do much besides putting their best work.

I know I have expressed my distaste for Tomiyasu in the past, but I don't have nothing against him. He is good with small, daily and slice of life stuff. Showcase of character's quirks and personality trait. But he just isn't cut for things that demand "grandness" or bigger stakes.

The show needs directors who can at least mantain some balance between the two. Even the best writers can't do much if their boss has a certain vision of how things should play out.

TL;DR Even if Shudo was alive, I don't see how him doing much better considering the current state of the show. Gee, all things considered I wouldn't doubt he just went and turn down the offer (that's my speculation based on the few I've read about him though)

 

[BobbbidyBob]

Exactly. It's not true at all that Mewtwo showed no familiarity with Ash nor is the stupid idea that Mewtwo Returns was ignored or is no longer canon.

There's a bountiful amount of evidence that Mewtwo Returns is still canon and wasn't ignored. Let's start with the word of God basically stating that that Mewtwo Returns happened and connected it to the recent episode on their twitter account. Check. Mewtwo Returns was referred to in the Remake of the first Movie after the ending. Both the 1st movie and its remake are obviously canon and by extension, the fact that Mt. Qaena was shown at the end of the remake confirms. Ash remember Mewtwo and he wouldn't have been able to if Mewtwo Returns had happened. Now let's examine how Mewtwo behaved in the episode as behavior is a more nuanced "show, don't tell" method for determining familiarity, for example. If Mewtwo Returns never happened Mewtwo would still have his clones with him. Not only that he wouldn't have acted so amiable towards Ash or Goh, a complete and total stranger. I know I wouldn't talk to someone I didn't like or trust so Mewtwo who has a history of trust issues sure as hell wouldn't.

Mewtwo behaves as though he is comfortable around Ash, his guard isn't up and he's willing to converse with him. Mewtwo fresh out of Strikes Back/ Strikes Back Evolution would still have deep mistrust of humans and refuse to interact with them at all. He would have immediately fled or attacked. Since he's so willing to chat with Ash and even Goh (probably because he's with Ash) displays how comfortable with and trusting he is of Ash. He's comfortable and trusting because he remembers what Ash did for him in Mewtwo Returns. Mewtwo had learned a lot by Mewtwo Returns and had grown to care deeply about his clones and even natural Pokémon. Before Mewtwo Returns Mewtwo would have never taken a guardian role over natural Pokémon like this and he would have still had the clones with him. Mewtwo's personality and temperament in episode 46 reflects the arc he went through in Mewtwo Strike Back/Evolution and Mewtwo Returns. This is a result of that character development.

Presumably Mewtwo also saved Ash and Goh from becoming river hash at the bottom of that waterfall. Would fresh movie one Mewtwo do that? Yes, but he would have kept his presence a secret. He sure as hell wouldn't have been so talkative, especially around Goh, a total stranger. Don't forget Ash knew about Mewtwo's existence and never told Goh as Mewtwo trusted him to keep it a secret. At the end of their defeat, Post Strikes Back Mewtwo would wipe their memories of the event and returned them to Cerise labs. Allowing them to keep their memories of their encounter shows a remarkable amount of trust that wouldn't be possible if Mewtwo didn't remember Ash because as most us know Mewtwo is exactly the trusting kind without reason. So Mewtwo 1000% remembers Ash, but didn't feel like discussing it in front of Goh, a complete stranger who, by association with Ash he trusts, but no where near as much. They're keeping that between each other for now it seems, though Ash may fill him in off screen.

Don't forget Mewtwo agreed to fight the boys out of a desire to help them by teaching them how far they have to go and that their dreams require dedication as they will face many obstacles and defeats. He want to repay the kindness that Ash showed him by helping him with his journey. Mewtwo also wouldn't have warned them about the results of the battle before he wiped the floor with them. And let's not forget that Mewtwo had to be near humans to save those abused Pokémon and where better to find mistreated Pokémon than that one "faraway city" and by observing humans. He and those Pokémon took refuge on that island after the city sequences at the end of Returns and in those intros. Mewtwo still carries the ideals he had throughout Mewtwo Returns and shows them by protecting those Pokémon. If Returns never happened he wouldn't have those ideals and he wouldn't be as comfortable with himself either.

Mewtwo comes off to as wanting to be left alone and with his history, who could blame him? I'm glad that we know what Mewtwo's been doing to occupy himself after Returns and that he's not alone. Could the episode been better? Yes. Could Mewtwo have at least mentioned Ash? Yes. But the idea that Mewtwo didn't remember Ash is patently and emphatically false. There's only so much you can do with 30 minutes, most of which was spent just getting to Mewtwo. Truthfully, there should have been more Mewtwo and dialogue referring to Mewtwo and Ash's familiarity. I agree with that, but to make false statements and to trash this episode is unfair. The animation was good. If you want to see bad animation watch the crap I've reviewed. Oh my God it is eye torture. The animation in this episode was beautiful and smooth. I rate the episode a 9/10 to 9.5/10. I don't feel bad for enjoying it and I'm not going to apologize for it. I'm glad that I got to see the original Mewtwo again, this had been one of the best things to happen to be all year. I'm not going to look it in the mouth.

As for seeing Mewtwo again, why would they buy the rights for a character and use him once? Rights to characters are expensive and I'd want my money's worth. Not to mention they seem to be setting Mewtwo as a mentor for the boys and an as obstacle like someone said before me. Besides why would they leave the possibility open with Ash and Goh's dialogue at the end of episode? If Mewtwo was very unlikely to reappear they wouldn't have mentioned it at all. Dialogue usually has purpose and that bit definitely did. So for the long post, but I had to express my feeling or I would explode because I really don't have anyone to talk to about Mewtwo on this level besides my cats. Cats don't usually make good conversationalists like Mewtwo does.

This episode kind of seemed like a gateway episode for more Mewtwo appearances, tbh. I guess they didn't think a flashback was needed because they streamed the movie. But seriously, I understand most of your gripes.

Really cool review dude! I agree, we should wait and hope Mewtwo does more satisfactory appearances.

 

[LucasMV]

Tbh it's kinda sad that chuck had amore meaningful interaction with ash that establishes their previous connection compared to mewtwo.

I thought the same thing. I still can't understand why referencing a pretty unremarkable gym battle from 20 years ago was worth it but referencing the previous encounter between Mewtwo and Ash apparently wasn't. With all the promotion they'd been making of this episode, about this Mewtwo being the original one, hiring his VA and all that... I really don't get it.

Unless they don't have the rights to reference the movie or Mewtwo Returns in the anime, and can just use Mewtwo for new material instead. But I don't know how likely that is.

 

[CMButch]

According to my research the only fans who loved this episode (some even claiming to be their favorite so far) are Satogou fans. I guess it was for them in the end Loooll XD

Satogou? Is that shipping?

 

[BobbbidyBob]

Satogou? Is that shipping?

Yes, that’s what they call it.

 

[CMButch]

Yes, that’s what they call it.

Well, I don't like shipping at all of anything( shipping 10 year olds is questionable IMO) and I would say this episode is amazing. Top 5-6.