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Battling & Getting! Mewtwo Comes Back (1135)

Lucario At Service

Calm Trainer
For me, the biggest disappointment of this episode was Lucario's Moveset (and some what Cinderace's as well).

I mean, in all the games since 4th Gen, Lucario has been one of those few Pokemon who have access to a variety of different type moves (can learn 14 different types of moves out of 18 types) which makes it versatile and dangerous even with somewhat low power compared to other top Pokemons.
But here we have Ash's Lucario which is stuck with 3 Fighting type moves and a support Normal type move, and fought against a powerful Psychic type.
Atleast they could have replaced "Force Palm" with "Meteor Mash" so that it could cover its other type, or go with Lucario's other iconic move "Bone Rush".

As for Cinderace, well it only used 3 moves, with 2 Fire and 1 Normal, which is kind of disappointing, but atleast it didn't use "Double Kick" against Mewtwo.
 

BobbbidyBob

Well-Known Member
Well, I don't like shipping at all of anything( shipping 10 year olds is questionable IMO) and I would say this episode is amazing. Top 5-6.
Same
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
I did not like this episode. Sometimes I feel like the writers go out of their way to create forced tension when regarding Goh, just like how they had Raboot be so obsessed in beating Milotic with Ember and now as Cinderace he uses all his moves basically. Now in this episode, Goh uses Heracross to save Ash from the bog... then they have to use Caterpie to get across when Goh and Ash could have just used Heracross and Dragonite to cross. Even Gengar could have just used Psychic to get them across.

Goh uses Cinderace, Heracross, Sobble, Caterpie, and Dewgong. Ash? Pikachu and Lucario. :rolleyes:

This is the second episode in a row that also have the strong Pokémon put Pikachu out of commission for Lucario to take center stage.

Another thing I am getting pretty annoyed by is how many times are we gonna have Ash and Goh renew their passion for their goals? It feels like we get one of these episodes every 15 episodes.

Mewtwo was cool but it seems like this was just a forced introduction to get it out of they way so they can use him later.
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
For me, the biggest disappointment of this episode was Lucario's Moveset (and some what Cinderace's as well).

I mean, in all the games since 4th Gen, Lucario has been one of those few Pokemon who have access to a variety of different type moves (can learn 14 different types of moves out of 18 types) which makes it versatile and dangerous even with somewhat low power compared to other top Pokemons.
But here we have Ash's Lucario which is stuck with 3 Fighting type moves and a support Normal type move, and fought against a powerful Psychic type.
Atleast they could have replaced "Force Palm" with "Meteor Mash" so that it could cover its other type, or go with Lucario's other iconic move "Bone Rush".
Kotetsu's Lucario was the same, had three fighting type moves and a support normal type, though in Kotetsu's case, that normal-type move (Copycat) allows you to use other moves that were previously used.
I do have to agree with you though, the only attacking non-normal-type moves we've seen Lucario use are Bone Rush, Metal Claw (Maylene's) and Dragon Pulse (Kukui's).
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Grookey appears for a quick second, they're just trolling Grookey fans at this rate.

And it took almost 50 episodes for Goh to actually put effort into his goal... *smh*

I liked the movie style opening, it was quite refreshing but we didn't need to hear their goals for the thousandth time. Hopefully that calms down now that the time changed but I'm tired of screen time getting wasted on that

Mewtwo not even acknowledging Ash was just plain dumb, as was going back to him seemingly not carrying Gengar and Dragonite. Why are they so inconsistent on that? Team Rocket not being here is also unforgivable, could have had a sweet moment that treated them like actual characters and not plot devices, if Mewtwo returns again they had best be there.

I love that Mewtwo basically showed that HE is the strongest, though now if they ever plan on writing Ash off... he pretty much has to beat Mewtwo. Leon's nothing compared to Mewtwo

Also they better not have that Krabby be how G-Max Kingler appears, that right belongs to Ash's! It's been treated terribly ever since the Johto League and getting a win for Ash could go quite a way in redeeming him

5/10 Took way too long to get to what mattered, it was essentially half filler
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
I just watched it again, with subtitles this time to give my real thoughts on it, but somehow I'm still just feeling... nothin'.

What's bugging me the most is how this feels completely disconnected from everything else that's happened up to this point. Why make such a big deal about bringing back THE original M1 Mewtwo, if you don't actually make any direct reference or connection to it at all, nor even really give him the focus he deserves?? The rest of the episode itself was actually pretty average. It's just that there was so much wasted potential here that it like, hurts me.

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir.
Exactly. This epidode served no purpose and felt out of the blew
 

AuraGuardian448

Aura Guardian
Not going to say too much here, as I haven't been keeping up with the series, part of which is due to how often lackluster and disappointing S&M was. All I have to say, until I properly catch up with the series and see this episode again, is yeah. . . this ain't the same Mewtwo Ash met in the original series.

I legitimately have to laugh at how the outside word is trying to convince everyone it is more than the story in the actual episode, which doesn't at all. There is not a single reference or recollection of its past events with Ash, something that actually exist in Mewtwo Returns. Both Mewtwo and yes Ash failed to truly convince the audience that they knew each other personally. Majority of the time, as in like practically everytime in this anime, when Ash runs into old friends, humans and Pokemon, there is some sort of background context that comes along with it, whether it's a flashback or unique dialogue, but there was absolutely none here AT ALL. (Of ALL the instances throughout the entire anime series to not have background context, they chose THIS one to have it absent during? Even with all that misleading promotion.) No "long time no see", "you", "it's been a while" and many other variants from any of them two. Ash had already seen a few Mewtwo after Mewtwo Returns, so Ash "recognizing Mewtwo" means nothing, especially with that overrated standard reaction that he's displayed even in normal situations. The reused Movie Mewtwo theme (which is suppose to be outdated since the idea is suppose to be this is the same Mewtwo that Ash had met but also gotten to reform) means nothing too, as well as the return of the original voice actor. (There's still no canonical or personal connection with them two. And even Goh didn't think Ash knew this Mewtwo, yet in contrast he questioned things like his connection with Lugia, Lucario, human characters, etc. Nor did Pikachu do its usual joyful run up that we've seen it do to various returning friends over the many generations.) They put all these together and reaired MSB and MR returns for what, to pull at nostalgia strings/bait views from old watchers and not properly (rather at all) continue their story arc. So yeah, different Mewtwo thanks to the execution of the episode.

Actually, the episode was rather disappointing too. Animation wasn't terrible but it wasn't top notch either. Pikachu went down way too quickly, literally after one real attack. (But this is nothing new with Pikachu. Only decently strong when the plot demands it or when it has to be written exceptionally to negate some of its shortcomings.) The way it lost also reminded me of how it lost to Marshadow, which also irritated me. The Thunderbolt could have resisted the Shadow Ball at least a little. The fact that Aceburn (laughably) and Lucario performed much better is just a problem. Then another thing is Ash basically being scaled to Goh's level during Mewtwo's judgment. Some of the stuff Mewtwo said to Ash insulted me as a veteran follower of the anime. The adventuring segment that came before Mewtwo was mediocre (this is the Pokemon standard, so the praise is questionable), with the Caterpie portion being the only standout thing. There's already been many episodes like this adv-segment, and this one isn't special. Would have been better if there was cooperation between Ash's and Goh's Pokemon, though, especially since that's somewhat the theme for the second half of the episode when they face Mewtwo together.

Frieza-Mewtwo was cool, but I have no idea how this is anyone's favorite episode or somehow in top 5 best Pokemon episodes. If this is somehow the best episode in this series, then i'm even more concerned with catching up. It's also funny how Goh somehow had 7 Pokemon on him, with no onscreen transfers at all. In order he had Mankey, Heracross, Sobble, Caterpie, Krabby, Dewong, and then Aceburn. . . lol.
 

BobbbidyBob

Well-Known Member
The only shiny thing I think was the moon.

Also unpopular opinion but I rewatched the ep and I don’t think Mewtwo was in-character enough. He is painted as this wise guy where in the movie and special he was painted as the complete opposite in my opinion. Like someone learning and searching. And like ...what business did he have calling Ash immature? Like excuse me Mewtwo but, you do know that’s the kid who taught YOU two life lessons.......not the other way around.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
Honestly I was fairly impressed with the episode. I do wish there was some reminiscing, but I still got the impression Ash and Mewtwo knew each other. There was no "who are you" but rather "why are you here?" and Ash remarked on Mewtwo's identity with complete casualness. As for why he and Pikachu were so standoffish with Mewtwo, given the situation one can wager they decided to be exceedingly polite with it to avoid any misunderstandings. And as one-sided as the battle was, it was still nice to see Mewtwo put in a bit of effort and remark that it enjoyed the battle.

Mewtwo also raised some good points about how Goh's goal is rather unrealistic when he pointed out just how big the world is and how there are more kinds of pokemon than he has any idea of. I liked Mewtwo's inclusion for that if nothing else. Goh got to explain a bit more of his reasoning for goal for once, though I am still not all that impressed with his goal. Claiming catching a pokemon lets him understand it isn't all that meaningful when we rarely see him actually learning about the pokemon he catches after he catches them, not to mention how much of what he does learn doesn't require catching them.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Well, to be fair, we've seen he does treat and feed his pokémon, so it's reasonable to say that on doing that, he learns more about them. Another episode did had Cerize calling him to help with something research-related so you can say he's been studying and learning about the ones he have in the lab. It just isn't the focus of the episodes.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Well, to be fair, we've seen he does treat and feed his pokémon, so it's reasonable to say that on doing that, he learns more about them. Another episode did had Cerize calling him to help with something research-related so you can say he's been studying and learning about the ones he have in the lab. It just isn't the focus of the episodes.
Sure would be nice if we got to see that

I wish "tell don't show" worked that well in real life - school would've been a lot easier if I could tell people I'd done my homework without actually having to do it, I imagine
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Thing is... Tell don't show still means stuff's been done. It just happens that the viewer didn't see it. Thing's still done so it's very far from the example you made (the person haven't done their homework)
 

Starswirl Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Our heroes go looking for traces of Mew but instead stumble upon Mewtwo! All things considered Mewtwo seemed pretty chill after the whole encounter. (I wonder if it recognized Ash?) With Go's large variety of Pokemon and Ash's battle history, they could probably be Pokemon Rangers some day if they wanted to.
 

BobbbidyBob

Well-Known Member
Mewtwo never returned again....this episode truly was useless....and mewtwo too
 
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