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BDSP: Worst Pokemon game?

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
SM and USUM take the worst cake. those 4, especially SM were developed too fast in an attempt to hit an anniversary celebration.

cant say much about pikachu/eevee as i dont have those but even PLA is better that SM USUM even if its more of a pain to play with open world concept.
I resent that, that you included the Ultra versions. They had updated a huge ammount of pokemon for use in Alola National Dex and usable pokemon despite requiring transfers for many. But you can get versions of the of many starters, in the post game when you can use Island Scan and others.

Ultra Alola is still my number 1 games in my book. FYI, I'm won't be hostile about this. But i will not tolerate debating it in any private messages. *angry wink*
 
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Kage-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
SM and USUM take the worst cake. those 4, especially SM were developed too fast in an attempt to hit an anniversary celebration.

cant say much about pikachu/eevee as i dont have those but even PLA is better that SM USUM even if its more of a pain to play with open world concept.
what didn't you like about SM and USUM? i do feel that the player got little story significance in SM even though i enjoyed Lilly. I think this was fixed in USUM but i dislike the change to Lusamine.

I think X and Y needed more of their lore explored since Zygarde got nearly zero representation despite their only being 3 legendary pokemon. i hope the inevitable remake actually does it some justice plotwise.
 

Kage-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
I resent that, that you included the Ultra versions. They had updated a ammount of both the national dex and usable pokemon despite requiring transfers for many
These are still my number 1 games in my book. FYI, I'm won't be hostile about this. But i will not tolerate debating it in any private messages. *angry wink*
i agree, they are my favorite games after Legends Arcues. it was much better to look at than X and Y and i loved the feature of defending our throne. i always wonder why there has-beens' have always been in our champion room when re-battle the elite 4. i love you Cynthia but get the heck out of my room, lol
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
i agree, they are my favorite games after Legends Arceus. it was much better to look at than X and Y and i loved the feature of defending our throne. i always wonder why there has-beens' have always been in our champion room when re-battle the elite 4. i love you Cynthia but get the heck out of my room, lol
I wouldn't mind seeing her in the Ultra Alola "game engine" since Legends Arceus gave her a Garchomp outfit.
She would better than the weird dragon trainer with red hair Ryuki that rarely shows up. Just maybe throw Milotic instead of Drampa and you get a good Alola team for her.

Ryuki's title defense team in the post game with 5 pokemon: Garchomp Drampa Turtonator Dragonite Kommo-o

 
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Kage-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
yes it;s always nice to have cameos from previous games, battling her again would be cool. i think Ryuji should have had a dragon pokemon who does not appear in the pokedex to hype up the new region. he sends out a dragon with ??? in the name and we battle it without knowing what it is.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
what didn't you like about SM and USUM? i do feel that the player got little story significance in SM even though i enjoyed Lilly. I think this was fixed in USUM but i dislike the change to Lusamine.

I think X and Y needed more of their lore explored since Zygarde got nearly zero representation despite their only being 3 legendary pokemon. i hope the inevitable remake actually does it some justice plotwise.

I feel like the entire period from XY to LGPE was a slump in quality for Pokemon (and really you can throw BW in with it too, as that was the trend setter for the direction of that era, although BW2 did offer a brief respite from some of the issues that plagued those games before XY doubled down on much of what BW did) and all of those games share similar flaws, with LGPE pretty much being the culmination of everything wrong with that era. The games were all heavily casualized and handholdy. First of all, all of the non-remakes from BW to SwSh were super linear. The older games had some sense of linearity but there were moments when you could wander off the beaten path and explore large swaths of areas or take an alternate route to get the same destination. But not Unova, Kalos, or Alola. They used frequent roadblocks to limit you to one path, usually only the next route and town and maybe a dungeon if you were lucky until you finish whatever the game wanted you to do before moving on, and this continued throughout the whole game. No wandering off and exploring, the progressions was almost 100% scripted from start to finish. The games were also made to be very easy and intentionally lacked extra content to appeal to casuals and later mobile gamers because they thought people just wanted to whiz through the main story and then move on to something else, so a lot of the extra content that we had gotten used to (such as Contests, Secret Bases, the Battle Frontier, the Game Corner, and the Safari Zone) was axed and often wasn't replaced with something comparable so we ended up with less and less to do in the game. They also took multiple measures towards decreasing the difficulty and appealing to casuals such as decreasing trainer roster sizes (I can count how many times you battled a trainer with more than 3 Pokemon with one hand), changing the EXP Share to force all Pokemon to gain EXP, and increasing mandatory tutorials. And then there was tons of nostalgia pandering to try and replicated Gen 1 with things such as only having new Pokemon in BW (but making many of them clones of Gen 1 Pokemon), including popular Pokemon like Pikachu, Charizard, and Mewtwo everywhere and giving them new forms, and only giving Alola forms to Gen 1 Pokemon. And then of course they cap it all off by making RBY the only game so far to get a second remake (and of course, it's a heavily casualized remake that feels like a step backwards from even the original games). There's some good things those games did do, but overall I feel like it was a bad direction for the entire series.

As for SM and USUM specifically, SM's heavy storyline emphasis meant you were constantly getting stopped for cutscenes. There were literally some sections IIRC where you have a cutscene, take a few steps, and then another cutscene. The level design also seemed to get a lot more simplistic, with few alternate paths or areas to wander off and explore in the actual routes. And USUM was a massive disappointment as an updated version, especially when the last game to get an updated version did an entire sequel instead of just a copy/paste third version. But even putting aside that USUM was a third version and not a sequel, there were still issues. For one they really botched the storyline in this version, while other third versions expanded on the game's story and lore this game retconned things, and the retcons made the storyline worse. Most notably, Lusamine went from being driven insane by Nihilego's neurotoxin to just being an extremist that still does insane things for some reason (why is she still freezing Pokemon in stasis exactly?). And IMO, the extra features and gameplay modes weren't quite as good as some of the things that Emerald, Platinum, and BW2 introduced, with many of them (such as Mantine Surfing, the Photo Club, and Ultra Warp Ride) being very shallow and repetitive instead of some of the more involved and multifaceted sidequests that some of the past ones introduced (such as the Battle Frontier, Pokestar Studios, or Join Avenue). There's just very little that USUM did to improve SM that excites me and it feels like they improved the wrong aspects in the wrong ways.

Again, SM and USUM aren't my least favorites, but they are pretty low on my list and I'd probably put them lower than BDSP.
 

Kage-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
i do agree with the annoyance of linearity in those games, even in gen 1 there were many optional places to explore and often you were rewarded for doing so. i saw a hilarious video of sword and shield of how many people tell us to check in at the hotel RIGHT NEXT TO THE GYM. instead of literally letting us walk over and find it, they lead us there and give so much unnecessary dialogue.
Power Plant
Sea Foam Islands
Diglett Cave
Unknown Dungeon/Cerulean Cave

I do admit replaying SM and USUM can be irritating, especially in the beginning since there are so many cutscenes. i usually like cutscenes as long as they advance the games plot and are too the point. a skipping feature would have been nice for repeat playthroughs. Lusamine becoming a well-intentioned extremist was so unnecessary and you're right about there being no proper justification in USUM for her freezing pokemon. they should have had both her plotline from SM and Necrozma in this game. Her character was wrecked. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon should have been one game and should not have been advertised and an "alternate story"
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
As for SM and USUM specifically, SM's heavy storyline emphasis meant you were constantly getting stopped for cutscenes. There were literally some sections IIRC where you have a cutscene, take a few steps, and then another cutscene.

I don't mind those...but Rotom-Dex, he can be much worse when he starts sending you messages. Every time you exit or enter buildings, finish a battle and such he will chime in with.
"Listen up Roto-(Player) Here's where I give you advice you didn't ask for! Zzzzt!"

One of them is just a advertisement for a bad hairday and head to the alola photo club for a new passport image. It gets absurd since he admits you didn't ask for these things. For a adult like me this is very juvenile and i really wish i could turn it off in options. Makes me really want to mod my SD-Card the game is on, to remove these lines. But if you don't have high friendship then you don't get some of his good rewards like Roto-Hatch from the Roto-Loto lottery and allowed to use Z-Moves more than once in the same matches. It's like a devils contract.
 
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Satoshi & Touko

Peanuts aren't just a nut.
Worst? I don't think I can go that far, otherwise I'd have to say that the originals were awful too, which I don't. Now, in my opinion, again, in my opinion:

Are they the worst remakes to date? You'd better believe it!
Are they sad, lazy cashgrabs? Yeperoos.
Are they worth full-on boycotting because of the above? I'd say so, unless you've never played the originals.
 

masdog

What is the airspeed of an unladen Swellow?
Worst? No. It’s basically DP built on a modern game engine with a few modern conveniences. It doesn’t add anything new or update the game to fully modern standards like previous remakes, which marks it down.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
XY is one of the BEST Pokemon games in my opinion.
BDSP is ok, love the chibi style tbh it fits DP
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
XY is one of the BEST Pokemon games in my opinion.
BDSP is ok, love the chibi style tbh it fits DP
Yeah they can be acceptable to a extent... indoors except cutscenes in small houses like Professor Rowan's house. I hate the endgame
and postgame difficulty spikes a lot more. Also if you are catching starters or even just any pokemon found in Grand Underground who are all level 60 then good luck grinding without Rare Candies. The EXP gain down there is low without a guide and and i think made a stealth nerf in a
patch how much exp trainers give exp after E4 and the timer for VS Recorder to recharge.

Most gym Leaders are also tough to take advantage EXP gain except Roark, Fantina and Gardenia, their puzzles are easy. The rest are a real pain including Maylene, Candice and Crasher Wake's puzzles. Crasher's and Byron's puzzle has to be done in reverse if i remember to escape likewise with Volkner but his gym is more predictable.
 
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Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
Nah, I'd give worst to RSE. Sprites that are somehow worse than the previous generation (cf. Dratini, who looks its GSC shiny in its normal RSE sprite), worst Pokemon designs (most of my least favorite Pokemon are from this generation [Slakoth, Slaking, Sableye, Lombre, etc.], weird decision to remove the visible day/night cycle, far too many water routes (IGN was right), and so on.
I disagree about the sprites. Some might not have been the best (I.e. Gyrados) but they were far better than Gen I where Koffing was basically upside down and Mew looked like a really deformed fetus. And don’t get me started on Golbat.
 

TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
Well calling them the worst Pokemon games is a bit much. I definitely think they were some of the least interesting ones though which is hard to tolerate for me especially because of how much I loved the original Sinnoh games.

I really wanted these games to live up to those expectations but what I got were basically Diamond and Pearl with slightly better graphics. But even with some changes they didn't feel lworth the price tag. :[

Nah, I'd give worst to RSE. Sprites that are somehow worse than the previous generation (cf. Dratini, who looks its GSC shiny in its normal RSE sprite), worst Pokemon designs (most of my least favorite Pokemon are from this generation [Slakoth, Slaking, Sableye, Lombre, etc.], weird decision to remove the visible day/night cycle, far too many water routes (IGN was right), and so on.
It wasn't a weird decision just a practical one. The original GBA system had an infamously darker screen than other handheld systems, so nighttime would've made the graphics look way too dark if GF had included that feature in RSE.
 

SoraFan23

Generation 4 was how I got into Pokémon
After replaying BDSP a 2nd time my opinion is still the same. Its not as good as Platinum nor its not any better than the past remakes we have gotten in the past. It should've been remade from what Platinum did and not what the original DP was. It should've brought back modern mechanics that we have become used too like Being able to use TMs as many times as we want, Overworld Pokemon appearing in Tall Grass, Trainer Customizations, and making the game look like Sword/Shield but better graphics.

Do I think this is the worst? No not really. It still plays like a typical Pokemon game that you played so many times in the past so its nothing new. If you give this to someone who has never played Pokemon before then yeah they might see its a great game, but if you're someone who has played the original DP and Platinum then it would just feel really underwhelming and not as impressive as you thought it was.

Overall this is not one of my favorite remakes. Even though the game itself is decent it fails in terms of "Remake" value that you would expect it to be. So I would give this game a 5.5/10
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
The past games have all been extremely disappointing to me, Legends of Arceus being the one exception.

I will say this tho, while BDSP's existence is completely unnecessary as Platinum is a much better improved version, at the very least it has a better gameplay than LGEP, less useless/boring dialogue than SM/USUM and more fun side activities/better routes and other explorable places than SwSh.

Still, i couldn't bring myself to finish it, because i felt like i wasn't really experiencing Sinnoh through a new lens, i was just playing the same game, but with 3d mobile games graphics, which honestly look worse than the colorful 2d sprites from nearly 2 decades ago, so there was really no reason for me to play it, i would just rather play Platinum if i wanted to experience Sinnoh again.

I also think it's one of the worst cost-benefit games out there.
 

Emperor Empoleon

Honor of Kalos
Still has more content than XY
Does it though? I was disappointed that BDSP Battle Tower went back to basics with Single/Double Battles. There's no Multi-Battles with the partner characters (Riley/Cheryl/etc) or even the VS Records from Platinum. Those were included in XY, along with Triple/Rotation Battles from Gen 5. Battle Maison I think is the longest iteration of the Battle Tower to complete for all the trophies.

I guess there's Contests and the Secret Bases, but I think ORAS honestly did a better job at bringing those features back.
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
what didn't you like about SM and USUM? i do feel that the player got little story significance in SM even though i enjoyed Lilly. I think this was fixed in USUM but i dislike the change to Lusamine.

I think X and Y needed more of their lore explored since Zygarde got nearly zero representation despite their only being 3 legendary pokemon. i hope the inevitable remake actually does it some justice plotwise.
i found XY to be one of the best games IMO im not really that big into the story or post game stuff so the general lack of stuff past E4 didnt bother me. ORAS was a nice gen3 remake so i was fairly happy with that. XY did have some interesting battle variations that havent seen a return yet.

there are many things i hated about SM and USUM but more the first 2.
Z nukes were annoying AH, didnt have a competitive tier team. those teams are boring AH and its always the same 20 pokemon you see in tourneys. i played with mixed tier favorites ie design, ability, move coverage and a surprising moveset that could get people off guard. ident really have much variance overall but thats just me, Znukes were annoying and disrupted by strategy. it makes sense in overall strategy but it was still annoying. i despised the rotom dex. it was annoying in SM and i hear its insufferable in USUM as i didnt interact with it at all except for the mandatory times. they left out so many things in SM. half the buildings in the bigger towns were just empty space. the process to get megas was rather annoying ie the tournaments. the pokerides were rather annoying, much rather have a bike/skate to get around. the loss of HM were annoying but i did like that function. i honestly didnt give a damn about the Z moves, yes i know you can use them as nukes or stat boosters but i still dont like them. they left a few berries out of the roster and that annoyed me as i couldnt use custap berry aggron set. the loss of the PSS was annoying AH, trying to contact a player online was a few steps too annoying and you had a 5 minute blackout before you can relocate the player again. i belive thats also when the national dex was put in PK Bank but i dont remember that 100% now.

the good:
plaza shops as convoluted as they were are very useful. i did miss the horde feature but get the right stalls in the plaza and you can EV train a pokemon fast. USUM plaza battle tower witht he rented teams was fun if not infuriating at times BC they cheat so much later on. trying to make progress halfway through the ranks was a testing time. if you didnt have a lvl50 friend or passerby it was hard to get a 2nd good person to lend you a pokemon for the team
berry farming was a breeze. plant the berries and let your slaves....err pokemon do the rest. the little comments on how they go about it were very cute.
i think i missed a few other good things but they likely were mentioned in my previous rant post on gen7 hate.

gen7 games are where i had my interest in the games drop dramatically. i got 4-6 months of interest and 2-4 months of strong interest in the game. gen6 on the other hand had a strong interest of 2-3 years that i enjoyed the game. i filled all foreign dex entries except the legends/events in X. had prepared myself to do the same in gen7 but didnt have the interest to even bother with it as it couldnt hold my attention. gen7 is pretty much erased from my memory/pokemon game timeline. went into gen 8 with extreme skepticism. gen7 hype was strong but it really didnt last very long at all. havent touched BD for a few months, PLA 1-2 months since but im trying to get complete story when i work up the interest to play. beat elite 4 in BD but no heatran ie no elevated E4 levels. i will eventually continue BD to finish the story when i work up the effort to transfer my bred gen6 pokemon into BD. still not sure when that time would come...

SM were rather bad overall and USUM fixed a few things by adding ultra wormholes, returning legendary pokemon, brought back move tutors
and made mega stones easier to procure. USUM pretty much added what was needed into SM in the first place so it didnt really advance or improve my opinion of gen7 as a whole. SM provided a partially completed game and USUM just corrected the flaws in SM. if anyone wants to buy SM or USUM then i'd advise highly against SM if they had the chance to get USUM. SM is a waste of time and money when you can get a slightly more complete game. USUM wasnt perfect by far but it was more complete than SM could ever be. if SM came with all the features USUM had then my opinion wouldnt be as low rated as it currently is. it felt like GF was lazy/withholding extra USUM features just to get a game out on the 25th?? anniversary when they couldve taken more time to have the content of USUM be featured in SM already then have added other stuff when USUM were released.

yes sword and shield towns are barren and boring AH but atleast the open areas did provide more interesting things to explore.

i could probably add a few more things but that would make this post even longer...
 
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Blackjack Gabbiani

Clearly we're great!
DP were good games so BDSP are good games. They could have been better, yes, but we're starting from a good baseline.

The only real "bad" games are the first ones for being nearly unplayable now, and Ultra for absolutely demolishing the story they had in SM and ruining all the emotional impact.
 
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