BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO!! Does the Bible have a legitimate place in modern debate?

[UnovaMaster]

Fairy tales have no place in reality you silly gooses.

The answer is thus, no.

Debate adjourned.

 

[Sadib]

Fairy tales have no place in reality you silly gooses.

The answer is thus, no.

Debate adjourned.

But what if people believe in these fairy tales?

 

[UnovaMaster]

Then we should be discussing about how to make a formula that will cure stupidity.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Then we should be discussing about how to make a formula that will cure stupidity.

Nah, first we should work on a formula that cures arrogance. There is no correlation between religiousness and a lack of intelligence, but the first major schools of thought started in churches. It's more 'stupid', socially, to casually remark that the massive amount of people who have embraced religion over the ages have something wrong with them.

 

[chuboy]

Then we should be discussing about how to make a formula that will cure stupidity.

This, from a person who failed to realise the plural of goose is 'geese'.

 

[Sadib]

There is no correlation between religiousness and a lack of intelligence.

There is however a negative correlation between education level and belief in Young Earth Creationism.

 

[CSolarstorm]

There is however a negative correlation between education level and belief in Young Earth Creationism.

Well, yeah, the more teaching and more time someone's spent being conditioned in an environment that believes the scientific consensus, the more likely they believe it...that's an obvious poll. Education =/= intelligence.

 

[chuboy]

Well, strictly speaking SunnyC, and intelligent person, educated or not, would quickly realise the flaws of Young Earth Creationism prevent it from being a realistic explanation.

 

[Profesco]

I was trying to come up with an articulate way of saying what a bleak post that was, yeah. It can't help but to be read as saying "education" is defined as "being conditioned in an environment that believes the scientific consensus."

In the first place, perhaps education and intelligence are not synonomous terms, but education is the process by which one gains accurate knowledge, and one sense of the word 'intelligence' is possessing a great deal of useful or accurate knowledge. In the second place, likening education and indefinitely many man-hours (more like man-centuries, if not man-millenia) of observation of, testing of, and critical thought about the world we all share -- in other words the sum total of the scientific consensus -- to mere conditioned beliefs sounds plainly disparaging.

Maybe I'm just being sensitive because I like to imagine myself an academic, but that was a disheartening post to read. =<

 

[chuboy]

I don't think you have to be educated to be intelligent, Profesco. I'm not sure how much dolphins have been educated but they're pretty intelligent, ehehehe.

 

[Profesco]

Not at all, not at all. I identified the sense of "intelligence" I was associating with "education." There's also intelligence that comes preinstalled, I guess you could say. Dolphin software, amenable to upgrade and modification.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Well, strictly speaking SunnyC, and intelligent person, educated or not, would quickly realise the flaws of Young Earth Creationism prevent it from being a realistic explanation.

Strictly speaking, from my thoughts patterns and based on everything I've learned and believe, I would agree, but from experience I would definately turn down the notion that an intellectual must promptly 'realize the flaws' and prevent it from being a realistic explanation simply because that implies that there are no intelligent creationists. Even if they were to fail the 'explain how all living creatures came to be' portion of testing for intelligence, in many models educators and academics observe different types of intelligences, so it is really unlikely creationism and intelligence are exclusive.

I was trying to come up with an articulate way of saying what a bleak post that was, yeah. It can't help but to be read as saying "education" is defined as "being conditioned in an environment that believes the scientific consensus."

In the first place, perhaps education and intelligence are not synonomous terms, but education is the process by which one gains accurate knowledge, and one sense of the word 'intelligence' is possessing a great deal of useful or accurate knowledge. In the second place, likening education and indefinitely many man-hours (more like man-centuries, if not man-millenia) of observation of, testing of, and critical thought about the world we all share -- in other words the sum total of the scientific consensus -- to mere conditioned beliefs sounds plainly disparaging.

Maybe I'm just being sensitive because I like to imagine myself an academic, but that was a disheartening post to read. =<

I think I was talking more about the social aspect of creationism VS science, or the school environment, and the extracurricular activities that come with it, not really 'education'. The process of learning, or doing academic work, is not the same as conditioning. My context was more specific. Learning to dismiss people's beliefs as fairy tales and form this dichotomy where the dominant thinking pattern is THE definition of intelligence, and calling it abuse for other people to keep their children from learning the dominant thinking pattern or suggest that their idea is relative rather than right - that's the result of conditioning, not education. There are social groups, polarized sides, social consequences and stigmas on either side of the creationism/evolution debate. Something more than just knowing objective facts holds them together and keeps them believing, like a sort of loyalty to the status quo, a memetic conditioning. In grade school and college, as long as one discipline is (rightfully, even so) learned academically, it is more the social conditioning in that orthodox contemporary environment that makes people go from knowing their science, to believing their science.

If I had more time tonight I'd take it over to your learning debate.

 

[Sadib]

I would like to remind everyone about my Fact Sphere analogy to the Bible that I posted a few pages ago. Both the Bible and the Fact Sphere say some true things, but they also say some dubious facts. If there is nothing else backing up these facts, we can believe them. We cannot take the Bible as true solely because the Bible says so.

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

We cannot take the Bible as true solely because the Bible says so.

This is kinda like something I've been saying for a while now. I don't expect people who don't yet believe in God to obey His rules or accept His claims. If they don't believe He exists...they can't believe He's spoken!

Other reasons must be brought forward, and even then, claims in different books of the Bible must be analyzed separately.

Only after one believes he has reason to accept what the Bible says should the Bible be taken as the source for one's moral choices (just to take one example).

 

[mattj]

We cannot take the Bible as true solely because the Bible says so.

Other than you, who is trying to say this?

 

[Sadib]

Other than you, who is trying to say this?

Welcome back mattj. I've missed your presence in the Debate Forum. It seems though that you missed the post right before your one. It's funny because he was replying to the exact same sentence that you were replying too.

This is kinda like something I've been saying for a while now. I don't expect people who don't yet believe in God to obey His rules or accept His claims. If they don't believe He exists...they can't believe He's spoken!

I'm glad you agree with me, but why did you answer "Yes" to the poll?

 

[mattj]

It seems though that you missed the post right before your one.

On the contrary. I read it, understood it, and agree with it. As always, you failed to read it.

It's funny because he was replying to the exact same sentence that you were replying too.

?
and?

I'm glad you agree with me, but why did you answer "Yes" to the poll?

Just because a person believes that the Bible is true does not necessarily mean that they only believe the Bible is true because the Bible says so. It really isn't that complicated.

Again, other than you who has brought up such a rediculous argument.

 

[Mudkip 45]

I like the fact that this topic is brought up.....just to see everyones opionion is different.
Me myself am in fact a Christian, and stand proudly say so. Many people have stupid Stereotypes about us, such as were a bunch of dim wits, losers, outcasts, unintelligent people, and many many others. Yes we are different people. We are willing to stand up for the right things, to shine the light of Jesus and God through ourselves. This country (America) was based on Christianity alone, and sadly, we are losing that fact everyday. Now i see many people are saying "Just because someone believes it doesnt make it true" or "Science has proved it wrong". First off, many of these people dont even read the Bible, and are so to say, "Idiots" on the matter. They have no say in the matter but just want to get noticed. Next, about Science has proved it wrong, Thier are many references in the Bible that talk about Scientifical Matters, such as the sun (Psalm 50:1)
"The Mighty One, God, the LORD, speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to where it sets." Our bodies, are made from minerals found in the dirt, and so God says from dust we came to dust we Return. Even when the world ends, so many referances, even a whole Book! ( Revelations) So when People talk wrongly about the Bible, you should ask even if they have read it first. Now over here its around Christmas, and the holiday has been so mangled by products, commercialism, santa, that many people forget its meant to be celebrating the birth of Jesus! Alot of people probably think im coming strong and will reply with " Oh, another sensitive Christian". But really, Dont Judge a Book by its cover.

 

[UnovaMaster]

Jesus was born in April.

But thank you for that wonderful demonstration of a bad Christian argument.

 

[SwiftSoul]

> Our bodies, are made from minerals found in the dirt

Then why not honor the Earth from which the minerals came, which we know exists, instead of a questionable story about breathing life into red clay?