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BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO!! Does the Bible have a legitimate place in modern debate?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by mattj, Aug 24, 2011.

?

Does the Bible have a legitimate place in modern debates when it has something to say

  1. Yes

    26.6%
  2. No

    65.1%
  3. Undecided

    8.3%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    1) What are you talking about?
    2) You disagreed with SunnyC when he pointed out that you were moving the goalposts, and then told him to get out. "Show me a source." *shows source* "I won't accept it, because it's from Google."
    3) We're not talking about ancient things, unless you're still wrapped around the Christmas date thing.

    You believe that the Bible is still as relevant today as it was when it was first written. You're going to have to convince us somehow to agree with you. Let's use the other debates on this forum as examples. How can the Bible help the debate on: smoking, capital punishment, free will, sex education, the S-1867 bill, divorce, and internet piracy? I was also going to mention the homosexuality debate, but then I remembered all the Bible says on that topic is that we should kill gay people.
     
  2. chuboy

    chuboy <- It was THIS big!

    This.

    Although we have provided multiple reasons why the Bible is not a legitimate source in modern debates nevertheless (and mattj has yet to refute any of them).
     
  3. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    Personally I didn't read the bible. I was taught the scripture in Catechism. So it was just as good as reading it myself! I was never convinced. I am not the only person who heard the stories (for 10+ years) & still asked, "You actually believe that junk?" I have tried to read it, I honestly have, but I just can't get into the book! If it were the word of god, wouldn't everyone who tried to read it be moved to believe?
     
  4. Mewkachu

    Mewkachu Sexuality is a cult.

    Matt, what are you trying to prove? I see no specific argument other than your dispute over the legitimacy of a source.
     
  5. Dunning

    Dunning God's Soldier

    Actually it is hard to get into, and it takes prayer to want to read it. Satan will make it hard for us to get into it, that way you just stop reading it. And for it to move someone they have to be willing to accept its the Word of God, just like how you have to be open to see the proof of God, even though its all around us.
    I respect your opinions though, dont want that to sound offensive
     
  6. darkjigglypuff

    darkjigglypuff Borderline Troll

    That's because there isn't one.

    There's not a single shred of proof that the bible or anything quoted from it is worth bringing up in secular debate, because its centuries old 'logic' just doesn't hold up. It has no place in modern debate because it has absolutely nothing of value to say.

    inb4 'hurp durp, check out this aesop/moral lesson', because if you do, I can pull out an entire list of cruelties also listed.
     
  7. Malanu

    Malanu Est sularus oth mith

    I don't offend easily Dunning. Also, Satan didn't make me not read it. I see it as trying to read a book by an author who's work you just done like. I don't have a need for religion in my life, I don't know nor worry about what's next. Never have. I'm a "cross that bridge when we get there" kinda person.
     
  8. Grei

    Grei not the color

    There are these instances.

    "I was telling them to get out
    for
    different
    reasons

    !"

    They still disagreed with you, and you, unable to handle them calling you out on your awful debating style, told them to get out. And you can refute this all you want, but the fact is everyone in this thread has seen it.

    Like I just told you, I don't have to. You are the one making the claim that the Bible is legitimate for use in debate. If I made a ridiculous thread with a poll attached saying that the Bible does not have a proper place in a debate, then I would have to provide evidence. You can't just say "Well, here's my claim, everyone refute me." No. It's the other way around--you should be saying "Well, here's my claim, let me show you how I'm right."

    When you get to grade school, you learn that punctuation goes after a complete sentence or phrase, not in the middle of a page.

    You're right. It is unfair to expect me to come in to your debate and refute your points, without any back up from your side from the get-go. You are arguing, you aren't refuting. I'm shocked you don't understand this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  9. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    Mattj actually has a genius debating method. He makes a claim without anything supporting it, and he simply rejects anything that goes against his claim.

    Let me try: I think we should set people who smoke on fire, because the punishment needs to fit the crime. That's my claim. Go and prove me wrong, which I won't let you.
     
  10. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    I must disagree, the bible when fully read and without bias is not much more then a book of mythology. There is nothing that seperates it from Homers Odyssey or transformers mythos. It was written to explain the world which it did well until Galilo, now is a book of parables at best. And that is if you only count the new testament.
     
  11. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    I'm going to be honest here; I disagree with mattj on some things and on the way he is debating right now. But on the side against Christmas, I've seen some sources being used very poorly. For example, I like this History Channel article. It mentions Saturnalia, quite pertinent to this issue. This festival lasted multiple days, and could easily have influenced when the church wanted to celebrate. However, it is very important to note that Saturnalia is not the celebration of any god's birthday!

    Additionally, it makes a crucial mistake regarding Mithra:
    It incorrectly states that Mithra was an infant god. In fact, even in the Mystery religion of Mithraism, he was past infancy when he was born from a rock!

    It should also be pointed out that Mithra wasn't clearly and only a sun god.


    On a slightly different line of reasoning, it is also not clear that Sol Invictus' birth was celebrated before Christmas.

    And why not consider the possibility that Juvenalia, a festival about children, may have played a part in the selection of Jesus' birth celebration?
     
  12. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    Why does it matter why Christmas is held on December 25? That's not what we're debating. We're here to refute mattj's shoddy and unsupported claim that the Bible should be used for other debates in this forum.
     
  13. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    Uhh...marioguy? While I don't hold the date of a celebration of Jesus' birth to be the most important issue...multiple people including yourself were debating such a topic on the last few pages.

    I may disagree with mattj's debating tactics at times, but you seem to be using a bad one right now. You previously said this:
    I provided some evidence that your conclusion may be a bit overstated, and you responded that we weren't debating that issue. I think other people can see the problem, and, as a matter of fact, that's almost exactly the problem you've had with mattj's posts--you think he shouldn't be changing the subject and ignoring what people have been saying.
     
  14. Mewkachu

    Mewkachu Sexuality is a cult.

    I agree w/ you, I think that even though it is old though, and violent, it has few good lessons. Don't bring up the list, I know.
     
  15. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    I said that in reply to someone who said that Christmas was overly commercialized. I didn't expect it to become a hot-button issue whether or not December 25 was really stolen from somewhere else.
     
  16. mattj

    mattj .

    So you claim that I haven't addressed a single argument that anyone has brought up in this entire thread.
    And I'm the one whos being accused of making outlandish claims.
    You are either blind or a troll.
    Leave.
    ^that
    you called my debating style "awful"
    i'm so sad
    Do you want to contribute anything or are you just here to attack me?
    Sounds like you've got some issues to work out.
    And you are the one making the claim that the Bible is not a legitimate source for modern debate.
    Back it up or leave. You act like you can walk in, make claims and then leave without backing them up.
    I guess you didn't bother to read the OP. Or any of my posts in the 41 pages since then. Obviously I made not a single attempt to provide any support or sources for any of my arguments in 41 pages.

    Obviously.
    And I'm shocked that you don't understand that you've made claims without backing them up. Show me where I have not supported my claims with reasonable sources. I'll gladly provide them. You, however, chose to again and again make outlandish claims and provide no support for them whatsoever. Unbelievable.
    you provide me with endless entertainment
    I am in absolute shock and awe that you would make the unbelievable claim that the entirety of the Bible holds not a single moral, or philosophy, or tale, or guidance of value.

    Not one.

    wow

    You apparently haven't opened it.

    you got caught

    [edit]
    If anyone wants to continue the tomfoolery, I'm still waiting for any of you to provide a single historical source to suggest that "early Christians hijacked a pagan god's birthday on December 25th to gain more followers". This is the debate forum where people make claims and back them up with evidence and that evidence is then discussed right? Or is the the "make up ridiculous stories and don't worry about proof" forum?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  17. DazedMinezumi

    DazedMinezumi Patrat don't exist

    It isn't LIKE saying that atheism and other religions are wrong, it IS saying atheism and other religions are wrong, because they are
     
  18. ebilly99

    ebilly99 Americanreigon champ

    I do It’s not until the 12th century that we find the first suggestion that Jesus’ birth celebration was deliberately set at the time of pagan feasts. A marginal note on a manuscript of the writings of the Syriac biblical commentator Dionysius bar-Salibi states that in ancient times the Christmas holiday was actually shifted from January 6 to December 25 so that it fell on the same date as the pagan Sol Invictus holiday.5 In the 18th and 19th centuries, Bible scholars spurred on by the new study of comparative religions latched on to this idea.6 They claimed that because the early Christians didn’t know when Jesus was born, they simply assimilated the pagan solstice festival for their own purposes, claiming it as the time of the Messiah’s birth and celebrating it accordingly.
     
  19. chuboy

    chuboy <- It was THIS big!

    And miss out on this mediocre debate? Never.

    Your claims are outlandish all right - that doesn't mean you have refuted our arguments.

    But if you're apt to actually debate rather than tell people to go away, then why don't we sift back to one of my earlier posts that you never did get around to responding to? (Well, you did reply to the post. You just simply refused to answer the question. Incidentally, is there any other way to admit defeat in a debate?)

     
  20. Grei

    Grei not the color

    As an outsider to this particular subject of debate, I do have to agree with marioguy that it's not really on-topic.

    Why would you accuse me of attacking you, and then attack me back? Willing hypocrisy is not allowed here.

    I didn't make this thread, sir. I'm not the one coming into the debate forum, claiming that the bible is a legitimate source for debate. You can act like I'm the one who needs to defend my opinion against yours, but once again, that's not how debates work. You made the initial claim, so you have to back it up.

    The irony here is that you're doing exactly that.

    Sorry that I decided against wasting my life by reading all 41 pages of this ridiculous debate. It's not expected of me to have read all of it, you should know that.

    I did read the OP. I still think it's ridiculous that the bible would have any merit in a real debate about things that matter. It's an old book that's been translated multiple times and has lost a considerable part of its original meaning.

    If you're fishing for a compliment here, I'm not going to feed you.
     
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