BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO!! Does the Bible have a legitimate place in modern debate?

[Dunning]

I don't offend easily Dunning. Also, Satan didn't make me not read it. I see it as trying to read a book by an author who's work you just done like. I don't have a need for religion in my life, I don't know nor worry about what's next. Never have. I'm a "cross that bridge when we get there" kinda person.

Sorry, I think I failed at saying what I wanted to. Satan will make it harder, he cant stop you, but he can try to distract you. At least for me (before I became a Christian) it was hard to read it, I remember being in a motel and using it to fall asleep, I just couldnt read it.(Found out it isnt the kind of book where you start at the beginning)
But everyone is different, I am just saying it used to be hard for me





And for that Christmas debate, I heard an argument that it fell on that day to
one: represent the Son's birth
two: give Christians something to do on that day besides go to the Roman's festivities, not to overshadow it, but to give people a choice
my resource
http://www.gotquestions.org/December-25.html
(sorry my source is Christian based, but I believe they know what they are talking about)

 

[darkjigglypuff]

I am in absolute shock and awe that you would make the unbelievable claim that the entirety of the Bible holds not a single moral, or philosophy, or tale, or guidance of value.

Not one.

wow

You apparently haven't opened it.

And you apparently didn't read the last sentence of my post.

inb4 'hurp durp, check out this aesop/moral lesson', because if you do, I can pull out an entire list of cruelties also listed.

Are there moral lessons? Yeah, there's few in there.

But for every moral lesson or advice, there's an instant of glorified cruelty, often committed of endorsed by God. For example, the whole, you know, creating flawed, imperfect humans, and then condemning them for succumbing to the flaws programmed into them. It's like shoddily designing a program, and then instead of taking responsibility for its glitches, you blame IT for having those glitches, and then give it a soul and threaten it with eternal damnation.

 

[UnovaMaster]

*facepalms at the Satan making it hard to read the Bible crap*

 

[Kaiserin]

(Found out it isnt the kind of book where you start at the beginning)

So is it Satan's fault that people are probably trying to start reading the Bible from the beginning, then, if it's not meant to be read like that? It couldn't possibly be that they're just, I dunno, reading it wrong or not finding themselves invested in what it's saying without any outside supernatural influence, could it?

If all disinterest in the Bible stems from Satan's interference, then do you not believe in free will?

 

[Sadib]

mattj:

The Bible claims many things.

1. What evidence exists to suggest it is right about all of them?

2. If there are parts of the Bible which are wrong, how can we decide rationally which parts of the Bible are still correct?

I expect you to answer both questions separately before you can claim to have won this debate.

Come on, chuboy! You know that mattj wouldn't be able to answer these questions even if he two thousand years to prepare. That's why he ignored your post for over a month. Mattj wants to win this debate really badly. If he doesn't win, he will just continue claiming that he's right about this while ignoring everyone else's posts debating this until the end of time.

 

[Dunning]

So is it Satan's fault that people are probably trying to start reading the Bible from the beginning, then, if it's not meant to be read like that? It couldn't possibly be that they're just, I dunno, reading it wrong or not finding themselves invested in what it's saying without any outside supernatural influence, could it?

If all disinterest in the Bible stems from Satan's interference, then do you not believe in free will?

Even when you know where to start it might seem hard to get into, but you really have to read it not as a skeptic, but more open to it and willing to believe it might be true........I think I fail at getting my point across

as for the free will, Satan makes it seem less interesting only if you let him and either way it is your choice to read it

(By the way, in my opinion, if you are new to the Bible a good place to start with John, then matthew, mark, luke........but like I said, everyone is different)

Come on, chuboy! You know that mattj wouldn't be able to answer these questions even if he two thousand years to prepare. That's why he ignored your post for over a month. Mattj wants to win this debate really badly. If he doesn't win, he will just continue claiming that he's right about this while ignoring everyone else's posts debating this until the end of time.

What is someone else answered them instead? Mattj is not the only one who believes in the Bible and that it is a legit source to use

 

[Sadib]

Even when you know where to start it might seem hard to get into, but you really have to read it not as a skeptic, but more open to it and willing to believe it might be true........I think I fail at getting my point across

as for the free will, Satan makes it seem less interesting only if you let him and either way it is your choice to read it

(By the way, in my opinion, if you are new to the Bible a good place to start with John, then matthew, mark, luke........but like I said, everyone is different)

What is someone else answered them instead? Mattj is not the only one who believes in the Bible and that it is a legit source to use

You can answer chuboy's post if you want to. If you don't, I don't think anyone else will.

I don't know if you know this or not, but other people have beliefs that may differ from your beliefs. Not everyone believes that Satan exists. Let me give you an example. Do you believe that Zeus exists? No? Same concept.

 

[Dunning]

You can answer chuboy's post if you want to. If you don't, I don't think anyone else will.

I don't know if you know this or not, but other people have beliefs that may differ from your beliefs. Not everyone believes that Satan exists. Let me give you an example. Do you believe that Zeus exists? No? Same concept.

If I can I will answer them, but I want to make sure my facts are straight and have as much proof as possible otherwise my word would have no value

I know not everyone believes in Satan, I was just saying what I believe makes it hard to read the Bible, I didnt mean to offend. If I say anything else like that without saying that it is just what I believe feel free to remind me, I dont want to shove my beliefs on anyone or offend anyone(its not like if I do that you will believe it, you would probably sooner think that all Christians are inconsiderate jerks that only judge people)

actually some things I dont care if they offend, but that is more when people are offended I wont take Christ out of my life, but I dont want to offend in other ways, like by shouting YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS FOR DISAGREEING WITH ME.....that would be crossing a line(hope that makes sense)

 

[Grei]

as for the free will, Satan makes it seem less interesting only if you let him and either way it is your choice to read it

I'm not sure I follow this. So, God gave us free will to choose to read the Bible, and Satan influences that by making us less interested in it?

I'd be wary of that sort of thing. By your definition, I would be within the spectrum of people who have fallen completely for Satan's influence--I've never read the Bible, and only once have I ever even considered the possibility of wanting to read it. Would this make people like me "bad people?"

 

[Dunning]

I'm not sure I follow this. So, God gave us free will to choose to read the Bible, and Satan influences that by making us less interested in it?

I'd be wary of that sort of thing. By your definition, I would be within the spectrum of people who have fallen completely for Satan's influence--I've never read the Bible, and only once have I ever even considered the possibility of wanting to read it. Would this make people like me "bad people?"

(remember this is off of MY beliefs)
I am saying it is hard to do what God wants because Satan tempts to do the opposite. It is your choice to read the Bible, but if you let him Satan will be there to try to screw you up. Satan is there to trip anyone who doesnt have the armor of God because they are easier targets. He even tries after Christians too.

Everyone has fallen for Satan, and Christians arent "good people", we are sinners too. But we are saved, its not about working up to God, it is about the relationship with Him.

You cannot be any worse than I once was, and I was just saying that there is a reason it is so hard too read the Bible

(I am tired and hope that makes sense even though I am)

 

[Sadib]

(remember this is off of MY beliefs)
I am saying it is hard to do what God wants because Satan tempts to do the opposite. It is your choice to read the Bible, but if you let him Satan will be there to try to screw you up. Satan is there to trip anyone who doesnt have the armor of God because they are easier targets. He even tries after Christians too.

Everyone has fallen for Satan, and Christians arent "good people", we are sinners too. But we are saved, its not about working up to God, it is about the relationship with Him.

You cannot be any worse than I once was, and I was just saying that there is a reason it is so hard too read the Bible

(I am tired and hope that makes sense even though I am)

Have you ever considered that perhaps what you believe in isn't right, and you're just wasting your life? That might be scary.

 

[Dunning]

Have you ever considered that perhaps what you believe in isn't right, and you're just wasting your life? That might be scary.

I have thought that once, but the thing is I know what i believe is true.
If it isnt then what am I really wasting? I am happy, I am living in a way that doesnt harm others, I am following laws, i still have fun.
Now let me ask you that same thing(I am not sure what you believe, but for the sake of the argument lets pretend you are Atheist/Agnostic)

If I am wrong I die either way knowing I lived a good life and have to spend death just like everyone else

If you are wrong you die and find out heaven and hell are real places and have to sadly pay for your sins(I pray you will come to Christ though, I want heaven to be full and want see all those smiles)
(I am not trying to use fear against you, it wouldnt be the right kind of relaitonship with God if you only did it for a 'fire' insurance)

 

[Sadib]

I have thought that once, but the thing is I know what i believe is true.
If it isnt then what am I really wasting? I am happy, I am living in a way that doesnt harm others, I am following laws, i still have fun.
Now let me ask you that same thing(I am not sure what you believe, but for the sake of the argument lets pretend you are Atheist/Agnostic)

If I am wrong I die either way knowing I lived a good life and have to spend death just like everyone else

If you are wrong you die and find out heaven and hell are real places and have to sadly pay for your sins(I pray you will come to Christ though, I want heaven to be full and want see all those smiles)
(I am not trying to use fear against you, it wouldnt be the right kind of relaitonship with God if you only did it for a 'fire' insurance)

If you are wrong, you are wasting your time preaching. What kind of good and merciful deity would condemn someone to an eternity of suffering for the sole reason of not following him for whatever reason?

 

[GhostAnime]

I really hope you aren't using Pascal's Wager.

 

[Raddaya]

Atheism: If you're right, you were prepared. If you were wrong, surprise! You get to go to heaven. If you were wrong and you end up in hell, well, I wouldn't want to go to the heaven of such an asshole, excuse my french, God either.

 

[Malanu]

I have thought that once, but the thing is I know what i believe is true.
If it isnt then what am I really wasting? I am happy, I am living in a way that doesnt harm others, I am following laws, i still have fun.
Now let me ask you that same thing(I am not sure what you believe, but for the sake of the argument lets pretend you are Atheist/Agnostic)

If I am wrong I die either way knowing I lived a good life and have to spend death just like everyone else

If you are wrong you die and find out heaven and hell are real places and have to sadly pay for your sins(I pray you will come to Christ though, I want heaven to be full and want see all those smiles)
(I am not trying to use fear against you, it wouldnt be the right kind of relaitonship with God if you only did it for a 'fire' insurance)

So after reading your post here the question becomes, do you follow your preferred religion as an insurance policy on your soul? After all you say that when you die you believe your soul will assend. That kind of assurance boarders on Arrogance and pride is a mortal sin.

As I see it the only difference between you and I is belief in a higher being. And I do what I do because I believe it is the right way to live, not because it is the "law" of a religion.

 

[Dunning]

So after reading your post here the question becomes, do you follow your preferred religion as an insurance policy on your soul? After all you say that when you die you believe your soul will assend. That kind of assurance boarders on Arrogance and pride is a mortal sin.

As I see it the only difference between you and I is belief in a higher being. And I do what I do because I believe it is the right way to live, not because it is the "law" of a religion.

You, my friend, are purposely trying to twist my words or did not read everything I have said. I said that fear is not the right way, you have to do as God says out of love for what he did for you. As I said earlier
(I am not trying to use fear against you, it wouldnt be the right kind of relaitonship with God if you only did it for a 'fire' insurance)

That means you can not come to God just to save your hide, God can see why you do things, you have to come and obey Him out of a love, which if you believe in him isnt that hard. It shouldnt be hard to love the guy who sacrificed everything so you could have a chance to go to heaven.

I would appreciate it if you would read everything I said from now on and not jump to conclusions.

 

[Malanu]

That means you can not come to God just to save your hide, God can see why you do things, you have to come and obey Him out of a love, which if you believe in him isnt that hard. It shouldnt be hard to love the guy who sacrificed everything so you could have a chance to go to heaven.

Not twisting per se. I want to see what you believe & how you believe it. I apologize for my methods, but it works well to catch the ones who believe for the wrong reasons.

Now to this:

It shouldnt be hard to love the guy who sacrificed everything so you could have a chance to go to heaven.

Is an oxymoron. If Jesus was the son of god, and was sent to forgive our sins, then his sacrifice was preordained, and therefore not really a big deal. Had he lived his life not ever knowing he was the son of god, and still did those great things in the bible, THAT would be more impressive a story to me! As it is he was supposed to die for us, he knew it, he told everyone (or maybe just his friends) right down to the guy who would deny following him. And if Jesus is god in the flesh (holy trinity) then he couldn't die unless he chose to!

This is how I see the whole Christian myth. A bit pragmatic, but there it is.

 

[GhostAnime]

I would appreciate it if you would read everything I said from now on and not jump to conclusions.

Then why would you ask the question?

It shouldnt be hard to love the guy who sacrificed everything so you could have a chance to go to heaven.

Oh, I should be thankful that I was almost sent to hell because of my ancestors. I should be thankful God made his own child suffer (for no reason) for my ancestors.

 

[Grei]

The purpose of this thread is not to question Dunning's beliefs, or to get Dunning to change his beliefs. He's said already that he's not trying to offend anyone. I think we should all go back to arguing pointlessly with mattj instead of questioning the morality of someone who isn't meaning any harm.

I'm aware that this looks like mini-modding. I don't care, really--I'm not comfortable watching you all tear into Dunning's way of life. You can disagree, great, but it is nobody's place to try and change another person's beliefs. Can we please move on?