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Best Dream Crusher!

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by Genaller, Nov 7, 2018.


Who was the best at making you feel like Ash’s dreams were crushed?

  1. Ritchie

  2. Harrison

    0 vote(s)
  3. Tyson

  4. Tobias

  5. Cameron

  6. Alain

  1. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Pretty simple; who was the best at crushing Ash’s dreams? I’m going with Tobias since he made Ash feel like he never even stood a chance; the epitome of a really good “crushing” if you ask me ;).
  2. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Alain since he was a more interesting character at that point and he had a bit of build up. Unlike Tobias who came the bleep out of nowhere!
  3. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Hard to pick between tobias and alain, but go with tobias since he was early and the dude had a team full of legendary, besides sinnoh league gave the feeling of finally ash's league victory and challenging the E4 and probably cynthia, after this loss it was evident that he is not gonna win any league. With kalos league it was hyped by stupid titles and the fact that he had never beaten alain before and the fact that ash always beats his rivals in the league, so it did arise some optimism and truthfully i was somehat dissapointed but after some moments after the match i was like okay so he lost this time as well. And lets be honest tobias match did make ash look good, whereas alain match didn't do anything, in fact it made all the hype around AG to die down. So i will go with tobias.
  4. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Just going to point out that Ash-Greninja objectively performed better against MC-X than Malva’s Mega Houndoom did and leave it at that :).
  5. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Caulifla v.s. _______

    Lol at this topic.
    I'll vote for Tobias because he came out of nowhere and crushed Ash.
    ash&charizardfan and Genaller like this.
  6. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Well in the SM 100 thread people kept talking about the Zeraora guy being the “dream crusher” this saga, so I figured I might as well ask who people here thought has been the best at “crushing” Ash’s dreams so far ;).
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  7. Ashton Ketchum

    Ashton Ketchum Well-Known Member

    Lysandre! If not him, Alain wasn't on League.
  8. Ignition

    Ignition I change these way too often

    I say Tobias. I dislike the others, but also because Tobias felt like the obstacle Ash knew he couldn't beat, but he was determined to put a remarkable final stand when facing him
  9. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 One-one

    I'm just gonna vote for tobias to conmemorate the fact that we may be witnessing the rise of a second tobias soon
  10. Gizmoduck

    Gizmoduck Burns eternally hot

    Can I say Ash himself?

    Even as a kid, I noticed how often he would seem to sabotage himself in a lot of areas. I would actually like him as a character if it were intentional.
  11. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Alain gets points for a rival they TRIED to develop into enough of a sympathetic individual character in his own right that fans would accept him. His win also had meaningful story segregation and added weight to the ongoing Flare plot (even if a lot of the fanbase still complained that Ash should have won).

    Tobias by contrast is such a joke character he almost feels like a compliment to Ash's progression, like "Ash is so good we had to abruptly make up this hyper competent trainer who summoned legendaries out of his ass just so he could plausibly lose".
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    Redstar45 and Ignition like this.
  12. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Paul is the reason this guy was created,there were no other trainers as powerful and as skilled as Paul at the Sinnoh League,so the writers had to pull this guy out of their a** to keep Ash from winning the league.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    Redstar45 and Ash-Pikachu like this.
  13. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    That’s a sh*t amv; they don’t even show Megahorn and Rock Smash hitting Darkrai!
  14. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    Love him or hate him, Tobias managed to be really memorable in the short amount of screen time he had. Granted, it was for all the wrong reasons.
  15. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Leader Of The Dai-Gurren

    I'm gonna say Tobias. Well....regarding Tobias one could say that he felt like pretty much of an asspull and walking DEM created by the writers as a desperate attempt to stop Ash from winning the League, but oh well, as least we more or less knew that Ash didn't have much of a chance against a trainer with a Darkrai who swept every opponent in the Sinnoh League until then (Latios wasn't revealed prior to the battle, it was a real surprise, but Darkrai was). As we all pretty much knew that Ash more or less didn't have a chance of winning, the outburst of salt wasn't upto that extent like it was with say, the Kalos League.

    I couldn't really ever like Alain as a dream crusher TBH. With his so called rivalry with Ash and so on, all it ended up like in the end was that, Ash faced off against Alain multiple tines, losing to him multiple times but didn't beat him even once....which is just ridiculous. What's the point of a rivalry when one rival never really gets to beat/surpass the other for even once? There was no real need for that so called rivalry when Alain was already a well-developed character enough in the ME specials already, we were already well aware about his character in the ME specials and how powerful as a rival he was. So trying to develop him as a dream crusher via the rivalry was pretty much pointless, because the result of it ended up like Ash multiple times battling Alain and still not beating him even once. Which is not justifiable whatsoever.

    And not to mention that because of Ash not previously beating Alain ever prior to the finals, many people expected Ash to emerge victorious in the KL finals and win the League (though of course being mislead by the hype-bait and trolling title of the episode and the misleading raging Orange Shuriken in the previews were also a major reason), which led to an enormous outburst of salt and rage in Pokeanime fandom which took months to settle down.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    Ignition likes this.
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    One backfire with Alain is that they made him an unconnected character first and only very later established his rivalry with Ash, which actually made it look like they'd shoehorned him in as the dream crusher at the last minute. Basically their idea working a little TOO well.

    I'm kinda liking SM's approach with the rivals of establishing them as such beforehand and THEN giving them individual limelight. Hopefully the dream smasher of this series will be similar, having enough substance to justify being the dream smasher but enough likability for the audience to not resent them for it (though I think at this point those that won't complain have stopped caring now anyway).
  17. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    Tobias, although I didn't like he was just a plot device, but at least Ash was the only Trainer to defeat his Darkrai on-screen.
    Redstar45 likes this.
  18. Frozocrone

    Frozocrone Miraculous!

    Cameron because he must have felt pretty crushed to have lost to someone more stupid than him.
  19. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Standby for Battle!

    Ash was going to lose at the Unova League regardless if he beat Cameron or not,Virgil was the strongest trainer at that league with Dino probably as a close second.Had Ash used Krookodile in his match against Cameron alongside Pikachu and Pignite there's no doubt in my mind that he'd win but against Virgil I still see Virgil coming out on top.

    Virgil had 3 pokemon still remaining in his match against Cameron who apparently had 6 pokemon in that bout instead of 5.Ash brought it on himself when he chose not to use his reserves,he would have easily won the whole conference.

    But the Sinnoh League was a different story,Ash was in his prime and had a very balanced team along with reserves to back him up.Paul was literally the only trainer at that league capable of stopping Ash from winning,but luckily for him Paul was a "Main Rival" which means he was going to lose for plot purposes.

    Since he beat Paul the rest of the league should have been pretty easy but no the writers decided to create a trainer who had multiple legendary pokemon at his disposal,that's the ultimate screwjob right there.
    Redstar45 likes this.
  20. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    I voted Tyson. He had the most backstory out of all of them and it was awesome seeing a Meowth that kicked ass for a change!

    Tobias is cool too but he really should have been brought up earlier. He feels like he was a last minute creation to keep Ash
    Redstar45 likes this.

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