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Best Final League Battle

Discussion in 'Animé Polls' started by Genaller, Jul 14, 2018.

?

Which of these battles was the best?

  1. Vs Ritchie TOP 16

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Vs Harrison TOP 8

    2.0%
  3. Vs Tyson TOP 8

    10.0%
  4. Vs Tobias TOP 4

    48.0%
  5. Vs Cameron TOP 8

    2.0%
  6. Vs Alain Finals

    38.0%
  1. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Bascially out of the league battles that Ash lost; which was the best? Note that I’m specifically asking which battle was the best and not which was the best loss for Ash (though I guess you could factor that into the overall quality of the battle). For me it’s Ash vs Alain by a mile since Ash flat-out gave his best performance as a trainer in that match not to mention that the work-rate, art, animation, directing, choreography and general atmosphere were top notch from beginning to end.
     
    LilligantLewis and blizzardblaze like this.
  2. Alola Adventurer

    Alola Adventurer Well-Known Member

    Ash VS Tobias at the Sinnoh League. Sure he may have lost, but Ash went down while defeating two Legendary Pokémon in Tobias' team.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  3. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ No Need To Worry...Yet

    Nothing tops Tobias imo since he had at least 2 legendaries on his team.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  4. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    In case you people don’t get it I’m asking which battle had the highest quality not which battle was Ash’s best feat (and in that case vs Alain still wins easily since by scaling MC-X would beat Darkrai and Latios back to back lower mid diff). There are several writing issues with Ash vs Tobias. For starters the Darkrai battle could’ve been done better by having Rock Smash’s effect activate lowering Darkrai’s physical defense and also having Sceptile’s ability Overgrow activate after it got up from DV. In this scenario a pair of crit Leaf Blades from an Overgrow boosted Sceptile would’ve KOed a Darkrai with lowered defense (making the defeat of a league sweeping legendary more believable) instead of just a pair of crit Leaf Blades from Sceptile KOing Darkrai. In addition it should have been obvious to Tobias that the reliable healing from DE was a significant factor in why Darkrai could so effectively sweep full teams which makes it feel all the more contrived that Latios didn’t know a healing move like say Recover. I’m almost certain that he didn’t know such a move because otherwise Pikachu’s chip damage strategy would’ve been screwed. This is especially egregious since Latios only displays 3 moves in the show meaning that the writers could easily have had him know a recovery move for the 4th slot. Worse yet in the post-DP special Nurse Joy’s Latias does know Recover and that move most likely saved her from loosing to Forrest’s Rypherior. Ash’s vs Alain on the other hand is Shinzo Fujita’s Magnum Opus. Honestly there’s literally no major standpoint from which Vs Tobias was better than vs Alain.

    In terms of pure power scaling Ash-Greninja is easily in the Champion Base Ace and E4 Mega Ace spectrums (unless any of you feel like giving a legitimate counter to this: https://forums.serebii.net/threads/ash-greninja-battle-viability-assessment-compilation.662620/) and Mega Charizard X is decisively better than even that whereas Tobias’s Darkrai and Latios are at best in the E4 Base Ace spectrum (and even then most likely not on the lvl of Pokémon like Flint’s Infernape or Caitlin’s Gothetelle) ergo pushing Mega Charizard X to a close match is easily way better than beating Darkrai + Latios.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  5. Ignition

    Ignition Wake me up when get to Sinnoh

    Just curious, but if that's your criteria, then why would there be any other option? I highly doubt anyone's going to argue any one of the aforementioned options as better in terms of quality.
     
  6. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Knucklehead Ninja

    He was just pointing out that the criteria for picking an option of this thread is the quality of the battles, not which battle was a better feat for Ash. If you look at the posts of @Pokegirl Fan~ and @Alola Adventurer above, it seems like they picked Ash vs Tobias because it was a better feat, since Tobias has 2 Legendaries...according to them. That's what @Genaller was pointing out.
     
    blizzardblaze likes this.
  7. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Well as I said this poll specifically was based on overall battle quality. Some major factors to consider would be:

    * In-Battle Writing
    * Pacing
    * Intensity
    * Story Boarding
    * Art
    * Animation
    * Coreography
    * Build-Up
    * Aftermath

    The comments above the post you quoted considered Tobias the best battle due to the aftermath of Ash being the only trainer in the SL to beat 2 legendaries (if I were to give them the benefit of the doubt though it could also be that they misinterpreted the point of this thread and thought I was asking which battle gave Ash a better feat). It’s a factor but in no way the sole criterion and my main pointin that quote was that the in-battle writing quality was lacking in places. Being in a newer series Vs Alain does have the inherent advantege in some factors like Art and Animation though in others not really including in-battle writing (what I mean here is that the in-battle writing could’ve been poor despite it being a new series though I’d argue that the in-battle writing in Vs Alain KL was 2nd only to that in Vs Paul SL).
     
    blizzardblaze likes this.
  8. Ignition

    Ignition Wake me up when get to Sinnoh

    Ah, ok, that makes more sense. I thought you meant in terms of animation and how the battle went. Thanks for clearing that up.
     
    blizzardblaze likes this.
  9. GarchompTheAssassin

    GarchompTheAssassin Water starter fan

  10. NPT

    NPT Just a member

    Tobias, no contest. The Alain battle was a massive asspull.
     
  11. Hunter Zolomon

    Hunter Zolomon Into the Shadows Staff Member Moderator

    Tobias easily.

    Ash's Pikachu tied with a Latios, and Sceptile took out Darkrai. That's extremely impressive if you ask me.
     
    Alola Adventurer likes this.
  12. Ash vs Cameron was great. All of Ash's terrible pokemon that he ignored all season got creamed as they should, while his only usable ones that weren't in rotation starred. Very well written.

    Trolling aside I enjoyed Ash vs Alain the most. Ash vs. Tobias was not entertaining to watch. It was way too one sided

    Latios wasn't an asspull?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
    Genaller likes this.
  13. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    Vs Tobias because it felt unique. Every other battle felt like Ash at least stood some chance of winning. With Tobias, the moment he pulled out that Darkrai, the battle was doomed, but it gave it a sense of Ash fighting until the very end. It's easy to see people fight when they have a chance. It's difficult to fight when you realize the odds are stacked against you.
     
    Ash-Pikachu likes this.
  14. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Kanae, Keeper of the Gates Emblazoned

    Either Tobias or Alain.

    Tobias because Ash actually beat two Legendaries and if Pikachu hadn't fainted might have stood a chance against the rest of the team given that Tobias started to freak out when it looked like that might happen.

    Alain because it was the first time Ash had made it to the finals and the artstyle was nice. Also, he did nearly win, considering Alain's response after Pikachu defeating Metagross was not to risk his other Pokemon and immediately send out his Charizard to take care of the problem.

    The problems with the Leagues are:

    The rival battle for DP. It did not deserve 3 episodes devoted to it. It should have just been a 6-0 thrashing by Ash, done in one episode.

    The lack of preliminaries (even in montage form) for XY. Yeah, we knew Ash would win, but seeing quick views instead of just his picture advancing up the ranks would have been nicer.
     
  15. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    Character wise, Tyson takes the win.
    Otherwise Tobias takes the cake. Sceptile finally got the big KO he deserved!
     
  16. Twilight-Kun

    Twilight-Kun Pokemon World Champion

    Surprisingly, I liked the first episode of Ash vs Cameron, because Ash's barely trained, unevolved, absolutely laughable team somehow managed to take out fully-evolved pokémon

    That's something you have to admire

    Emotionally, I'd say Ash vs Alain is the best, since it's two trainers putting everything they have into a battle against each other, with Alain pulling ahead because his drive to win and see Mairin smile again was stronger than Ash's desire to win a league
     
    blizzardblaze and Genaller like this.
  17. PokemonBattleFanatic-

    PokemonBattleFanatic- Well-Known Member

    Tyson Chicken was the best final league battle without question.
     
  18. JustAStatistic

    JustAStatistic Casual Trainer

    Tobias battle edges out over Alain because Ash turning his hat in the face of imminent defeat was actually an amazing moment.
     
    PorcelainVulpix and Ash-Pikachu like this.
  19. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    So according to you the battle with 6/11 OHKs is the best final league battle, but Ash vs Gary is overhyped cuz it had 5/11 OHKs? M’kay, if you say so :rolleyes:.
     
  20. 345ash-greninja

    345ash-greninja Knucklehead Ninja

    Calling Glalie vs Sceptile OHKO is really appropriate by any means it was by no means like a traditional OHKO. Two Pokémon laughing their moves which collide to have a tremendous impact scattering debris, resulting in both Pokemon getting KO'd, that's a different tradition compared to the standard OHKO's in the anime where one Pokemon beats other by knocking it out with a single move.

    But yeah, Ash vs Tyson isn't even close to being the best final battle for sure.
     

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