Best Pokemon Walls?

[ChaosBlizzard]

@Final, your whole post makes Skarmory sound terrible and hard to use. And furthermore, having good typing and a good movepool is the definition of viability, not of excellence; Skarmory is viable, it's just horribly out classed. Basically you've agreed it only has one above average thing, shown how to beat that one good thing, and explained how hard to use it is; are you for it or against it? :/

@Regarde, so why play that game in the first place? Swampert, Blissey, Quagsire, Jirachi, Miltank, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, these are all examples of walls that are completely self-contained. They can set up for themselves, withstand all kinds of hits reasonably well, and can beat their counters with little to no outside help. Skarmory does have great defense and that ever-useful Steel typing, but ultimately it is too reliant on help to be useful. It is simply out classed by more self-contained walls. That's what this boils down to.

And btw, Spikes + Whirlwind = cheap. Although with Skarmory's abysmal speed I don't see how that's practical.

 

[Regarde]

I think you need to lurk more. It's clear you have next to no knowledge of competitive pokemon.

And btw, Spikes + Whirlwind = cheap. Although with Skarmory's abysmal speed I don't see how that's practical.

cheap is a tern you'll hear no one competitive player use. you're second statement implies that speed is a factor in using whirlwind when whirlwind itself has negative priority. seriosuly. download po, play consistenty, and lurk more so you don't make posts such as these that embarrass yourself. there's a reason skarmory's been a top tier ou since gsc lol

 

[Blue Harvest]

Uh oh, this topic is quickly going downhill.

ChaosBlizzard please play the game a little more before making statements about how Skarmory is "outclassed". No, Skarmory is one of the best Pokemon in the game. You don't seem to understand that every free turn Skarmory gets to either Spike or use Whirlwind is catastrophic if played right.

Skarmory is SO GOOD its up there as one of the best Pokemon of all time. Saying its bad is ridiculously naive. Please, PLEASE play the game a little more ok? You said yourself you are new to the game so avoid making statements like that without experience.

 

[Cometk]

@Final, your whole post makes Skarmory sound terrible and hard to use. And furthermore, having good typing and a good movepool is the definition of viability, not of excellence; Skarmory is viable, it's just horribly out classed.

what the **** outclasses skarmory? and don't you dare say ferrothorn because skarmory and ferrothorn are almost completely different.

 

[lucario-adict]

would slaking count? my lvl 100 slaking has an hp count of over 436, not really a wall but i like to think of it as one, i use yawn to put my opponenets to sleep, use slack off to restore hp punishment to punish hammer arm to kill earthquake users since slaking weighs so much

 

[Cuddlebuns]

would slaking count? my lvl 100 slaking has an hp count of over 436, not really a wall but i like to think of it as one, i use yawn to put my opponenets to sleep, use slack off to restore hp punishment to punish hammer arm to kill earthquake users since slaking weighs so much

Truant ruins Slaking's viability as a wall (and it's usability in general), even though it has the right stats and moves to be a really good physical wall. It's ability just makes it setup fodder if you try to use it defensively, and it's lack of resistances means that even Slack Off won't be able to get rid of 2 turns of damage. It's much better as a Choiced sweeper.

 

[lucario-adict]

well look at the hp i mean if i use yawn then switch out to my darkrai is that so bad i mean and darkrai has dream eater which would help if dark void was used first time, but i dont really like him as a sweeper so what do you suggest?

 

[ChaosBlizzard]

*sigh* You lot are so desperate... evidently you missed the whole "You are right, but..." and "While I recognize Skarmory as a well loved wall, I think..." bits and resort to your usual slander tactics. How typical...

cheap is a tern you'll hear no one competitive player use.

Right, that explains the Sleep and Evasion clauses... <_<

Spamming sleep moves is cheap, spamming Double Team is cheap, that's why most competitive players don't allow them. Are you being serious right now?

you're second statement implies that speed is a factor in using whirlwind when whirlwind itself has negative priority. seriosuly. download po, play consistenty, and lurk more so you don't make posts such as these that embarrass yourself. there's a reason skarmory's been a top tier ou since gsc lol

*sigh*

Yes, I didn't know Whirlwind necessarily moved last; good one, boss, you got one on me, something to tell the grandkids. Technically speaking, it only proves my point though. Since you're always moving last, your oppponent necessarily gets at least one hit off on you before you can Whirlwind it away. NBD if it is something like Gyarados or Conkeldurr, but suppose it is a Rapid Spinner, or a good Special attacker? It simply is not a viable strategy, especially for something that, in every sense but Defense, is very fragile. In my competitive experience, Skarmory only needs one or two good Special hits to go down, and that's exactly the freedom you're giving your opponent.

Uh oh, this topic is quickly going downhill.

Oh come now, you're a mod! Are you honestly so close minded and stuck in Smogon's dogma that any fresh idea or, Heaven forbid, actual discussion is "going downhill?" Tell me, what would you like for us to be discussing?

A: Smogon says _________
B: I agree
C: I agree
D: I agree
A: I agree too.

This is a forum, isn't it? The point of it is to discuss conflicting ideas. What is it we should be doing here if not disagreeing with each other?

ChaosBlizzard please play the game a little more before making statements about how Skarmory is "outclassed". No, Skarmory is one of the best Pokemon in the game. You don't seem to understand that every free turn Skarmory gets to either Spike or use Whirlwind is catastrophic if played right.

And you don't seem to understand that every free turn you give your opponent by spamming Whirlwind is a chance to have your Special sweeper pulled out who can lay waste to Skarmory. Yes, Skarmory can be good if played right, and I have said that I recognize Skarmory as being well loved. However, it is too conditional to be viable. Self-contained walls like the ones I listed before are a much safer bet. If I can use something conditional on X, Y and Z, or I can use something better with no dependencies, I'm going to go for the ladder.

Please, PLEASE play the game a little more ok? You said yourself you are new to the game so avoid making statements like that without experience.

WTF? I said I've been playing for 12 years! I'm a veteran of generation one. My first competitive team is 3 years old. Where are you getting that I'm new?

what the **** outclasses skarmory? and don't you dare say ferrothorn because skarmory and ferrothorn are almost completely different.

"Swampert, Blissey, Quagsire, Jirachi, Miltank, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, these are all examples of walls that are completely self-contained. They can set up for themselves, withstand all kinds of hits reasonably well, and can beat their counters with little to no outside help. Skarmory does have great defense and that ever-useful Steel typing, but ultimately it is too reliant on help to be useful. It is simply out classed by more self-contained walls. That's what this boils down to."

 

[Regarde]

you're saying skarmory is "too conditional" to be viable lol you obviously know nothing. oh yeah way to drag smogon into this when it's completely irrelevant. oh and you even say "in my experience" in your post which is funny because you have none.

 

[xtrashine]

i love ;227; but i also love this special pokemon! deoxys-DEFENCE just wield it with a red card and then start using the move RECYCLE you can redo this over and over and just set up entery hazards.. ah such a great pokemon

 

[AB2]

Skarmory is probably the best spiker in the game. It can fit onto almost any type of team besides something like Hyper Offense. Despite you saying it can only run a physically defensive spread, a lot of people usually opt for a specially defensive version so that it can spike on weaker pokemon such as Vapreon. It also has a really reliable recovery move and can phaze xD

 

[BGP_]

Did i just see skarmory and not viable in the same sentence?! How's that work?

 

[3.14kachu]

I never battle in OU, so don't be surprised when I say that my favorite is Probopass. With Air Balloon, it usually gets some extra turns to set up effects. My favorite set is Stealth Rock / Gravity / Earthquake / Explosion, because its last 2 moves get perfect coverage once Gravity is in effect.

 

[Big Beluga]

Spamming sleep moves is cheap, spamming Double Team is cheap, that's why most competitive players don't allow them. Are you being serious right now?

no. we don't allow them because it takes the competiveness of the game away, not because it's 'cheap'. there are numerous tactics that nubs such as yourself consider cheap, when the fact is that if it works, why not use it? don't think of yourself higher than anyone else just because you refuse to use a good strategy due to it being 'cheap'. (that part was a reference towards you calling skarmory cheap lol)

*sigh*

Yes, I didn't know Whirlwind necessarily moved last; good one, boss, you got one on me, something to tell the grandkids. Technically speaking, it only proves my point though. Since you're always moving last, your oppponent necessarily gets at least one hit off on you before you can Whirlwind it away. NBD if it is something like Gyarados or Conkeldurr, but suppose it is a Rapid Spinner, or a good Special attacker? It simply is not a viable strategy, especially for something that, in every sense but Defense, is very fragile. In my competitive experience, Skarmory only needs one or two good Special hits to go down, and that's exactly the freedom you're giving your opponent.

what a terrible argument. in 'your competitive experience', did you ever use a team comprised of 6 pokemon? because, i know it's a lot to learn in one day, but you can! that's right, now you don't need to leave your skarmory in on a zapdos thunderbolt anymore, you can switch to blissey or tyranitar! in all seriousness, the whole point of running skarmory is so that you can wall and spike up on nearly every physical threat. then, when you have your spikes up, you can spam whirlwind, which hopefully makes sure you opponents special attackers don't come in. and if they do, you simply switch out. don't knock skarmory because it has a weakness, every single pokemon does and that's why you use 5 other pokemon which can help remedy it's weakness.

Oh come now, you're a mod! Are you honestly so close minded and stuck in Smogon's dogma that any fresh idea or, Heaven forbid, actual discussion is "going downhill?" Tell me, what would you like for us to be discussing?

A: Smogon says _________
B: I agree
C: I agree
D: I agree
A: I agree too.

This is a forum, isn't it? The point of it is to discuss conflicting ideas. What is it we should be doing here if not disagreeing with each other?

the discussion is going downhill because of people like you who fail to understand the basics of competitive pokemon.

And you don't seem to understand that every free turn you give your opponent by spamming Whirlwind is a chance to have your Special sweeper pulled out who can lay waste to Skarmory. Yes, Skarmory can be good if played right, and I have said that I recognize Skarmory as being well loved. However, it is too conditional to be viable. Self-contained walls like the ones I listed before are a much safer bet. If I can use something conditional on X, Y and Z, or I can use something better with no dependencies, I'm going to go for the ladder.

and again with the special attacker argument. so, taking this argument into consideration, i take it you think blissey isn't viable? as soon as a physical attacker switches in, you have to switch, making it a terrible pokemon. well let me tell you mr., have you ever considered running...wait for it... skarmory and blissey together???? this was they're both viable! omg problem solved. good day.

WTF? I said I've been playing for 12 years! I'm a veteran of generation one. My first competitive team is 3 years old. Where are you getting that I'm new?

wow. ive only been playing for a year and a half and i already understand competitive pokemon more so than you.

"Swampert, Blissey, Quagsire, Jirachi, Miltank, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, these are all examples of walls that are completely self-contained. They can set up for themselves, withstand all kinds of hits reasonably well, and can beat their counters with little to no outside help. Skarmory does have great defense and that ever-useful Steel typing, but ultimately it is too reliant on help to be useful. It is simply out classed by more self-contained walls. That's what this boils down to."

how does blissey beat it's physical counters and skarmory can't? in fact, skarmory can spam whirlwind against physical attackers, making special attackers continually have to take entry hazard damage, effectively weakening them. what can blissey do to physical attackers? seismic toss them into submission until they cry?

 

[Blaaz]

this guy is funny if he thinks skarmory isnt the best physical wall in the game tbh he doesnt need speed hes a wall he takes hits or switches out theres usually support for skarm thats why pert, blissey, gastrodon and things like that are on teams and if you think about it the only reason you wouldnt be able to switch out is against magnezone but really predict that

 

[ChaosBlizzard]

Ahh... sweet, sweet elitism... again...

no. we don't allow them because it takes the competiveness of the game away, not because it's 'cheap'.

And they take the competitiveness of the game away because they are cheap. Next point.

what a terrible argument. in 'your competitive experience', did you ever use a team comprised of 6 pokemon? because, i know it's a lot to learn in one day, but you can!

*sigh* How very desperate...

that's right, now you don't need to leave your skarmory in on a zapdos thunderbolt anymore, you can switch to blissey or tyranitar! in all seriousness, the whole point of running skarmory is so that you can wall and spike up on nearly every physical threat. then, when you have your spikes up, you can spam whirlwind, which hopefully makes sure you opponents special attackers don't come in. and if they do, you simply switch out. don't knock skarmory because it has a weakness, every single pokemon does and that's why you use 5 other pokemon which can help remedy it's weakness.

Every Pokemon has a weakness. Something that can do its job and then let its teammates deal with those weaknesses is viable. Something that can counter them itself is superb. Skarmory is viable, but since it cannot counter its weaknesses on its own, it is not superb. Any of the walls I listed before can counter their own weaknesses, they are "self-contained." I'm just espousing what I've already said, and what you all refuse to pay attention to. You pick and choose what you want to hear.

wow. ive only been playing for a year and a half and i already understand competitive pokemon more so than you.

BWAHAHAHAHA! Oh man... I love this thread. XD

how does blissey beat it's physical counters and skarmory can't? in fact, skarmory can spam whirlwind against physical attackers, making special attackers continually have to take entry hazard damage, effectively weakening them. what can blissey do to physical attackers? seismic toss them into submission until they cry?

Blissey actually has more than one good stat. Blissey gets extraordinary HP, great Sp Def, and passable Sp Atk. Invest enough in defense and you can withstand damn near anything (mine can at least). If you play your timing right, given a small investment in good coverage moves like BoltBeam or Psychic, Blissey can actually support herself. I've not just walled, but KO'd 4+ Pokemon on a team with just my Blissey, and had HP to spare. Skarmory can't do that, Skarmory can just annoy and stall defensively.




Listen, kids, this is what it boils down to: Skarmory has excellent typing, and excellent Defense. I have said all along that Skarmory is technically viable, and I recognize it as being a well loved Pokemon that many of you are defensive of. But it only has that great typing, and the defense that goes along with it, going for it; the strategy simply falls apart too easily. A more self-contained wall like one of the ones I listed before is much better. That is not to say Skarmory is bad or not technically viable, just that it is out classed by better walls.

With that said, please continue with your name-calling and slander, because frankly you're just making me smile and laugh. You are all so desperate to hold on to Smogon's precious dogma, and refuse to look at it objectively or logically. I personally think Smogon is great and an excellent resource, but you have to take it with a grain of salt and actually be able to figure out why what they're saying makes or doesn't make sense. Skarmory is viable, always has been and probably always will be; it is just out classed by better walls like Blissey, Quagsire, Ferrothorn, or any of the others I mentioned before.

 

[#TWERKTEAM]

Yo Regarde I'm happy for you and ima let you finish, but Tangrowth is the best physical wall of all time. Bulkier than Hippowdown, access to Sleep Powder and Leech Seed, good offenses on both sides of the spectrum, 33% recovery by switching out.

BEAST

 

[BGP_]

Listen, kids, this is what it boils down to: Skarmory has excellent typing, and excellent Defense. I have said all along that Skarmory is technically viable, and I recognize it as being a well loved Pokemon that many of you are defensive of. But it only has that great typing, and the defense that goes along with it, going for it; the strategy simply falls apart too easily. A more self-contained wall like one of the ones I listed before is much better. That is not to say Skarmory is bad or not technically viable, just that it is out classed by better walls.

Yep, that's all it has...but that's all it really needs doesn't he? I hate skarmory, he ruins me, but that doesn't mean he's not good cuz as i said, he ruins me almost. Skarmory being outclassed is about the most bizarre thing i've heard since 4th gen. Skarmory is probably one of the best walls in the game, maybe only second to ferrothorn, but those two aren't even remotely the same other than they lay rocks and spikes, but other than that they play different...

 

[Regarde]

you have no logic lol. you think that by running ridiculous moves such as psychic on blissey that it's beating their counters when it's really making the pokemon worse. btw i'm better than you at pokemon. lulz. oh, and you're still wrong about skarm

 

[ChaosBlizzard]

Yep, that's all it has...but that's all it really needs doesn't he? I hate skarmory, he ruins me, but that doesn't mean he's not good cuz as i said, he ruins me almost. Skarmory being outclassed is about the most bizarre thing i've heard since 4th gen. Skarmory is probably one of the best walls in the game, maybe only second to ferrothorn, but those two aren't even remotely the same other than they lay rocks and spikes, but other than that they play different...

Um... no? To be a good, self-contained wall, it also needs good HP and Special Defense. If Defense was all you needed, Shuckle would be viable.

This was a good post though. This is the kind of argument I'd like to see. This guy actually seems to understand why these strategies work, instead of just blindly accepting them.

btw i'm better than you at pokemon. lulz. oh, and you're still wrong about skarm

*smirk*

This thread is the best.