Best Wishes Until We Meet Again! (802)

[Squirtle_007]

No. Just stop it Cyber.

Move your BW hate somewhere else.

Leave him alone, he is just upset bacause May is the only former main character that hasn't had a special yet

I'm honestly beginning to suspect most people on this board didn't actually watch BW. Or more specifically: they watched, but they didn't really pay attention. The parts of their brain that actually receives the stuff in the episodes was blocked by a big "THIS IS DIFFERENT! WHY IS IT DIFFERENT!? WHY ISN'T THIS EXACTLY LIKE AG/DP!?" tumor.

Excellent!, you, sir are a VERY intelligent person, I couldn't said it better (or at least not in a way that could end up in another warning (-_-))

You forgot to mention the Deino episode as the build-up for her being able to read the hearts of dragons.

Also, connecting with Dragonite and getting him to listen to her took work. That's working for her goal, in my view.

Iris very clearly HAD her own storyline, but it wasn't done in the co-star/coordinator way and RAR! DIFFERENT BAD!

Another sign of fandom's selective memory, they said Iris did nothing with Axew, but still, Axew could kick Goldeen's, Horsea's, Psyduck's and Starmie's rears

People seems to forget that Iris started following Ash when he told her about Zekrom, and is not a secret she wanted to see it as well

I still see BW Trio way superior than DP Trio in terms of chemistry, interactions and bonding, they felt equally about screentime (screentime =/= distribution of the same) and they really felt like three friends travelling together instead of Ash and his cheerleaders worshiping kissing the ground he steps, come on, Brock had 4 departures and none of them were "emotive" or had build up (-_-)

FIRST DEPARTURE: Boobs!, see ya guys
SECOND DEPARTURE: I gotta go home because of it
THIRD DEPARTURE: Bye
FOURTH DEPARTURE: After 12 years I discovered my REAL vocation, bye

Ash, Iris and Cilan were close, they just didn't cried their eyes out because they aren't like that.

 

[Hero of Ideals]

I'm not talking about them not all being emotional, it's the fact that nothing made it stand out as a goodbye. No build-up, nothing. The departure literally consisted of Iris and Cilan suddenly decide to go somewhere completely different after spending 19 episodes travelling to Kanto, and jumping on the train right away with no real goodbye dialogue or small paragraph about their times together. It felt like they hadn't even been travelling together and that they were merely cotd's who were leaving instead.

In OS, Brock and Misty had to go their seperate ways for reasons which were explained, and Ash was sad. They spoke about how they will always be friends and exchanged gifts.

In AG/BF (the second time), they all spoke about their time together and Max got upset. Ash comforted him that they'd always be friends. They then left where May was shown to have a slight disappointment.

In DP, Dawn and Piplup realize both Ash and Brock are off to Kanto and Piplup gets upset. The gang all help out and eventually comfort Piplup. Ash and Dawn high five each other saying they're friends and such, and she shows slight disappointment as they leave. Ash and Brock rooted for each others goals and hand shaked.

BW, see what i mean?

The gang sat down at the table, Iris said what she wanted to do next, Cilan said what he wanted to do next, Ash looked at them and the next thing we know they were on a train saying goodbye at the most.

Such a shame.

Maybe comparing those to BW isn't a good idea. So what you're saying they aren't Ash's friends because they didn't have a memotional good bye and comparing them to cotds?

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

Maybe comparing those to BW isn't a good idea.

That's my point.

I want to make it clear that... I DID ENJOY THE EPISODE AND FINAL MOMENTS OF THE DEPARTURE, IT JUST COULD HAVE BEEN 20X BETTER AS IT DOESN'T COMPARE HALF TO ANY OTHER SAGAS AND CILAN AND IRIS DESERVED A GOOD DEPARTURE.

So what you're saying they aren't Ash's friends because they didn't have a memotional good bye and comparing them to cotds?

No, I never said that. Don't twist words.

They were Ash's friends, but the writing of the departure made them feel very insignificant, however it fits with the writing of the entire saga in which they were friends but barely any bonding moments took place besides the Iris and Ash fall out and become friends again episode, the coincidental part being that they spent the entire episode hating each other.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Gotta agree with Haunter here... the departure was pretty much lacking. Didn't feel like a departure episode because TR took up most of the scheduled timing. It doesn't have to be emotionally draining, but to just flat out say were leaving with only Ash having the memories, it really didn't feel like this group was connected.

 

[Janovy]

it really didn't feel like this group was as connected as the BW fanatics claim that it was.

Fanatics huh? Now people who like BW are fanatics?

So what should we call people who dislike BW - haters?

 

[Hero of Ideals]

That's my point.

I want to make it clear that... I DID ENJOY THE EPISODE AND FINAL MOMENTS OF THE DEPARTURE, IT JUST COULD HAVE BEEN 20X BETTER AS IT DOESN'T COMPARE HALF TO ANY OTHER SAGAS AND CILAN AND IRIS DESERVED A GOOD DEPARTURE.




No, I never said that. Don't twist words.

They were Ash's friends, but the writing of the departure made them feel very insignificant, however it fits with the writing of the entire saga in which they were friends but barely any bonding moments took place besides the Iris and Ash fall out and become friends again episode, the coincidental part being that they spent the entire episode hating each other.

Sorry, like somone told me, everything's already predestine to happen (Like the cancellation of the two partener) you can't chnage that and expecting it to be 20X btter, realling bad wuishful thinking. And are you sure you were watching Best Wishes both dub and sub, they have bonded. Not what people expected after putting way too much high hopes on BW after OS, AG, and DP, but they have bonded, it's little but they did.

And was there any reason to write that one bit in all caps, that's really makes you Hunter really.... immature, no offensive.

@Jotik, crossed that line huh? Wow, just wow. so anyone who likes BW is a fanatic, cute.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

Gotta agree with Haunter here... the departure was pretty much lacking. Didn't feel like a departure episode because TR took up most of the scheduled timing. It doesn't have to be emotionally draining, but to just flat out say were leaving with only Ash having the memories, it really didn't feel like this group was as connected as the BW fanatics claim that it was.

Yeah.

Fair enough Ash showed a tiny emotion when they were leaving and he had the flashback moment, but that alone wasn't enough. Iris and Cilan didn't feel natural, they felt really robotic (which is hard to explain believe me) showing no sympathy unlike Ash which is such a shame. They had great chemistry all saga and then they got an ending which you pretty much summed up perfectly was 'lacking'.

Fanatics huh? Now people who like BW are fanatics?

Not exactly, but it does seem like the BW fans are extremely defensive of the saga whenever anybody makes a comment about it.

 

[Janovy]

Not exactly, but it does seem like the BW fans are extremely defensive of the saga whenever anybody makes a comment about it.

That's only because people who dislike it are trying so hard to bring down every aspect of it merely because it wasn't quite their taste. It's completely immature and unfair towards us who actually like BW. How else are we supposed to react?

 

[Squirtle_007]

Cool, we are now "fanatics" , I got banned when I used an adjective to call DP fans

Not exactly, but it does seem like the BW fans are extremely defensive of the saga whenever anybody makes a comment about it.

Which kinda makes sense when that "comment" is mostly a complain or blatant bashing just because the series commited the sin of being different (¬_¬).

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Fanatics huh? Now people who like BW are fanatics?

So what should we call people who dislike BW - haters?

Janovy...I'm almost certain you what I mean. I'm talking about the people who flat out think there were no flaws with anything related to Best Wishes (DA being the fine exception, sad it took that long though). No show is flawless, especially Pokemon. Indiago League was full of flaws because it was the first series, Johto was flawed because only the battle/capture episodes had any meaning, Hoenn was flawed because only specific Pokemon were featured, and Sinnoh was flawed too (lack of emotion in some episodes, long gaps, etc.). If I'm a hater for pointing any of this out so be it, but to not acknowledge any sort of flaws is just pure bias worship.

 

[Haunter ゴースト]

Sorry, like somone told me, everything's already predestine to happen (Like the cancellation of the two partener) you can't chnage that and expecting it to be 20X btter, realling bad wuishful thinking.

No, my point is that compared to other saga's it wasn't good at all and it deserved much better.

And are you sure you were watching Best Wishes both dub and sub, they have bonded. Not what people expected after putting way too much high hopes on BW after OS, AG, and DP, but they have bonded, it's little but they did.

Could you give me some examples please that stand out?

And was there any reason to write that one bit in all caps, that's really makes you Hunter really.... immature, no offensive.

I don't see how it's immature.

I just want to make what i said clear as people may think that i hate BW and hate this episode inparticular when that isn't the truth.

That's only because people who dislike it are trying so hard to bring down every aspect of it merely because it wasn't quite their taste. It's completely immature and unfair towards us who actually like BW. How else are we supposed to react?

I'm not sure if you mean me by that but i don't mean to give that impression if i do. There were a lot of memorable parts in BW, but for the most part it was very disappointing with poor writing, however that is just my own thoughts.

I can see why BW fans are so defensive because of the BW hate, but I do feel like they should be honest about everything too.

 

[Pokemaniac24]

different

I am a fan of BW but I have to point out that I honestly don't think people hate BW because it's different. I have seen people's reasons for hating the saga and none of it has to do with it being different. It's mostly the execution people complain about, which is fair enough. I mean look at how much people love AG and DP despite the fact that both of those sagas are quite different than Kanto was.

 

[Janovy]

Janovy...I'm almost certain you what I mean. I'm talking about the people who flat out think there were no flaws with anything related to Best Wishes (DA being the fine exception, sad it took that long though). No show is flawless, especially Pokemon. Indiago League was full of flaws because it was the first series, Johto was flawed because only the battle/capture episodes had any meaning, Hoenn was flawed because only specific Pokemon were featured, and Sinnoh was flawed too (lack of emotion in some episodes, long gaps, etc.). If I'm a hater for pointing any of this out so be it, but to not acknowledge any sort of flaws is just pure bias worship.

I'm sorry but 'fanatics' does seem kinda offensive. How am I supposed to know what you mean by that word?

I can see why BW fans are so defensive because of the BW hate, but I do feel like they should be honest about everything too.

Well I for one, was always honest about BW. It did have weaker battles than DP, the League was crap, but this departure wasn't that crappy and the BW trio had far better interactions and chemistry than the DP trio. I gotta give credits where credits are due.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Which kinda makes sense when that "comment" is mostly a complain or blatant bashing just because the series commited the sin of being different (¬_¬).

Key word "different"...that's your defense? It's allowed to sit on a pedestal because it tried to be different? Isn't that what Pokemon is all about, being different?

I'm sorry but 'fanatics' does seem kinda offensive. How am I supposed to know what you mean by that word?

How am I suppose to word it... loyal fans of a specific era? It's obvious biasness of something, because there were no flaws

 

[Hero of Ideals]

No, my point is that compared to other saga's it wasn't good at all and it deserved much better.



Could you give me some examples please that stand out?



I don't see how it's immature.

I just want to make what i said clear as people may think that i hate BW and hate this episode inparticular when that isn't the truth.



I'm not sure if you mean me by that but i don't mean to give that impression if i do. There were a lot of memorable parts in BW, but for the most part it was very disappointing with poor writing, however that is just my own thoughts.

I can see why BW fans are so defensive because of the BW hate, but I do feel like they should be honest about everything too.

I know poor writing (ex: the constant fillers of Naruto), but just blantly saying it poor writng becuase you were 'dissapoint' is more you're fault, not the writers. If you didn't like it, then live it be. OS wasn't the best written series either, DP only good becuase how 'mature' Ash was, how 'balence' his team was, all of the praise and never stopping tha tmade me lose all respect for anything before BW, becuase I can no longer enjoy them becuase of all that priase. Even if did, what makes the teams of OS, AG, and DP better than BW? And let's not forget that instead of learning from the 'dissapontment' of BW, there goes everyone hyping it up XY over four trailers.

And now is no longer about the episode, so this dicussion should stop now.

@Joltik, you make it sound like no one sees the flaws.

 

[Squirtle_007]

I am a fan of BW but I have to point out that I honestly don't think people hate BW because it's different. I have seen people's reasons for hating the saga and none of it has to do with it being different. It's mostly the execution people complain about, which is fair enough. I mean look at how much people love AG and DP despite the fact that both of those sagas are quite different than Kanto was.

Not always, I remembered how people expected a race around the world when the Gogoat episode was revealed ... just with a screenshot (¬_¬), the race around the world didn't happened ... bashfest, I know it is an extreme example and not everybody are like that, but a lot of people tends to be that irrational

Key word "different"...that's your defense? It's allowed to sit on a pedestal because it tried to be different? Isn't that what Pokemon is all about, being different?

And it should be dragged in the mud like it is right now just because it WAS different?

 

[Alfred the Second]

Another sign of fandom's selective memory, they said Iris did nothing with Axew, but still, Axew could kick Goldeen's, Horsea's, Psyduck's and Starmie's rears

People seems to forget that Iris started following Ash when he told her about Zekrom, and is not a secret she wanted to see it as well

I still see BW Trio way superior than DP Trio in terms of chemistry, interactions and bonding, they felt equally about screentime (screentime =/= distribution of the same) and they really felt like three friends travelling together instead of Ash and his cheerleaders worshiping kissing the ground he steps, come on, Brock had 4 departures and none of them were "emotive" or had build up (-_-)

FIRST DEPARTURE: Boobs!, see ya guys
SECOND DEPARTURE: I gotta go home because of it
THIRD DEPARTURE: Bye
FOURTH DEPARTURE: After 12 years I discovered my REAL vocation, bye

Ash, Iris and Cilan were close, they just didn't cried their eyes out because they aren't like that.

I like how you are supporting Iris given the hate she receives but I think you are being tad too much. Why are you suddenly bringing up Misty's Pokemon here? Ahem? What? Point being made here is--?

I think Agent Pierce wants to say that Iris had her own story line. How strong Axew is when compared to Misty's Pokemon isn't relevant to Iris's storyline. To be frank, comparing Axew with Pokemon from decades ago is faulty.

Brock's second departure wasn't emotional? Come on? The departure after Johto IMO is the best departure. Ash. was losing the first friends he ever made. It was the first time both Misty AND Brock left him. Damn, that episode still makes me cry

In Hoenn he never had a proper departure, because the writers were obviously kicking him back in Sinnoh. And what do you expect at the end of Sinnoh? Both fall in each other's arms and cry like Pikachu and Oshawott?? That's not how they do things. They were used to parting with each other at that point, it doesn't make sense if Ash cries for Brock again. But they had good moments together, it just didn't have the same charm.

 

[LizardonX]

I cant help but think its odd how Ash and co didnt immediately send out charizard and dragonite to take out The balloons when they appeared.

BW didn't do that good a job of making the characters bond closely with each other so I didn't mind the abrupt departure. After all they can still see kanto on the train to johto.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Again like Haunter said, the ending wasn't bad on it's own, but it was definitely missing something... and I think it was the lack of character from Iris and Cilan

And it should be dragged in the mud like it is right now just because it WAS different?

No, it doesn't... there were some good aspects of Best Wishes, the rotation, the new sidekicks, a better pacing. But there were flaws to them as well, not all of Ash's Pokemon felt like they existed (Palpitoad is the biggest example), the Gym battles didn't feel right (Ash hardly improvised outside of the first gym), and while Iris prospered with a inconsistent overtime back story (pretty nice story when put together), Cilan got next to nothing outside of his quirks and no back story. Best Wishes might not have lived up to it's fullest potential, but with what it was, it wasn't a failure by any means.

 

[Squirtle_007]

I like how you are supporting Iris given the hate she receives but I think you are being tad too much. Why are you suddenly bringing up Misty's Pokemon here? Ahem? What? Point being made here is--?

Fandom's selective memory, because they compare them for having a similar goal, but acts like Misty slayed the Water type division and Iris just slacked off for 3 years

Brock's second departure wasn't emotional? Come on? The departure after Johto IMO is the best departure. Ash. was losing the first friends he ever made. It was the first time both Misty AND Brock left him. Damn, that episode still makes me cry

No, Misty's departure was emotional, Brock's wasn't, the first half of the episode was about Misty going back home because her sisters are neglecting the gym, and when they were ready to say goodbye to Misty, Brock said he has to go out of nowhere for no reason and with no foreshadowing