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Biggest flaws of each series

TrainerCami

Active Member
Rewatched up to the Ash v Gary league a couple year ago and they got extremely repetitive. Lame side plot, fillers, etc. Ash v Gary was great

DP: didn't really watch. Ash v Paul and Ash v Tobias were great although Tobias was one of the negatives for that series

BW: Didn't really watch either but Trip was like a poor man's Gary, Cameron, and the Ash/Pikachu nerf was dumb

XY: First season I'm watching completely since AG/BF. Glad they restored Ash to his normal development path. Ash Greninja and Mega evolution were great and brought me back to the Pokemon/the series (at least temporarily). Apparently these writers wrote Origins, and I can see that. Just like Origins was one massive Charizard circle jerk, XY has basically become one massive Greninja circle jerk. Not terrible because the Ash-Greninja thing is interesting but it's becoming pretty clear that Greninja is the emphasis (Ash v Sawyer in e34 feels like one giant build up for Greninja v M Sceptile.. hoping Ash v Alain is more battling along the lines of Ash v Paul/Gary). Things also feel a little rushed. I'm hoping that's because the writers are new and never wrote an entire season before or because Nintendo surprised them with an earlier than expected announcement of SM

Idk I like to think GF tell them the plans for the releases since they should know the release plan due to the games being worked on years before they drop. So like GF should be like "You are getting Kalos where this and that happens along with Gen 3 remakes) months before the new series starts.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Biggest flaws? Let see:

Kanto: rushed gyms and less attractive battles(but given technology available back than and lack of more diverse move set I cannot hold this vs them much)
-questionable pokemon captures which ended up released soon afterwards

Orange Islands: Brock departure was unjustified and contrived.
-there was lack of substantial development for Tracey character and no fleshing out ending up leaving man cast too soon.

Johto:
-drop of GS ball plot which originally supposed to cover huge part of Johto journey
-Gary appearances as rival with build up as whole was too sparse and disconnected.
-Misty not getting enough focus and episodes dedicated to her feelings, goal of becoming water master(with Whirl islands revealing how much material and mysteries there existed to do very viable follow up) and her pokemon as whole.
-Misty being replaced. Considering she was one of deepest and best well rounded characters pokemon series ever had with her story ending up unfinished with no real closure. Alongside lot of potential and promising prospect to dive deeper in her motives, past and relationship with others being left unused.

She left way too soon never getting justice she deserved.

Hoenn:-Ash had no rivals and opposing factors to represent challenge to his quest
-resolution of Team Aqua vs Team magma was anticlimactic and poor.
-episodes of no consequence were worse than most ever so despised Johto ones with no much emotion and memorable messages.

Battle Frontier:
-It was revisit of Ash hometown region only by its name. With references to Kanto, gym leaders, previous major characters, pokemon and places being very, very rare. Let alone their involvement even happening.
-May battles in contest rounds started to be underwhelming and unrealistic with lot of unfavorable scenarios being solved through intervention of higher power(DEM)
-Max focus started to decrease

Sinnoh:
-weakest group chemistry to date.
-Brock was shafted at times too much but contrary to popular belief he underwent some significant development there regardless
-Dawn contests were less exciting and engaging due to too much emphasis being put on appeal rounds rather than battle itself
-Dawn barely changed in personality sense as individual taking away from her otherwise great growth in career sense
-gap between Sunnyshore and Snowpoint was highly tedious and boring filled with lot of pointless and unneeded episodes dedicated to training. When it could had been used for actual revisit of Johto or more attention being put on continuity and connection to past generations with HGSS remakes.

Unova:
-years of Ash development, maturity and experience were flushed down the toilet through reset
-Cilan had no development and his goal felt like an afterthought
-Jessie, James and Meowth experienced radical change stripping away lot of their recognizable quirks, emotions and human like mannerisms. Through overhaul of their behavior and sudden promotion in ranks of Rocket organization they received. With no build up, foreshadowing etc. They still showed from time to time their true personalities, but it was rarely and in very limiting doses with their purpose being strictly limited to missions and attempts of making them appear as competent and threatening. While putting their true selves, emotions, habits and dynamic in second plan).

-rivals for Ash, Cilan and Iris went nowhere witnessing to most of them ending without closure.
-World tournament as one of most important features in games and highly convenient way to revisit all those past regions this series covered. Though return of popular older faces and references to history, accompanied with whole arcs being created out if it(which could filled up easily remaining time which was wasted on Decolora side journey) was butchered and destroyed. Getting insult called Junior Cup which was anything but competition on global level.
-League Vertress conference was terrible and worst one to date
-Iris character development was messed up, filled with lot of contradictions and poor planning(bit she as character really wasn't bad with hate for her being irrational)
-Decolora islands adventure had no objective, no purpose or any substance behind it being waste of time.

Kalos:
-interactions between main characters are too vapid, one dimensional and static. There is no conflict, drama, embarrassing moments and awkward scenes. Everyone are too peaceful and happy that chemistry feels contrived. Writers tried too much to make XYZ group likable that they in process forgot to do actual build up and evolution of friendship between Ash and others where characters work on overcoming differences and finding things in common leading to close friendship. Instead everyone became close right away taking away from their substance.

-Serena character regardless of development she got is still at timers too much defined by her crush for Ash taking away from her own strength. That and there were too many stereotypes centered around her progress resulting in quickly made up goal which felt like afterthought. With pokemon showcase being in lot of ways for me very limiting and discriminatory.

-Continuity lost its place in Kalos series. Next to zero references to previous regions, previous major traveling companions, rivals and factors which defined Ash journey and story for all this years. No callbacks to older pokemon, places and events feeling like Kalos anime isn't even part of same pokemon anime we followed for prior to that 17 years. Now continuity was always terrible in pokemon, but Kalos saga managed to push border even more turning from poor to none of continuity.

-too much focus on Greninja to the point that every other pokemon in Ash team feels neglected and overshadowed. Including even Pikachu to degree. Because while its cool that Ash ever since first season finally received water pokemon evolved to final stage and on top of that giving him some valuable character development. Overuse if exaggerated creates counter effect undermining its special and admiring status.

-scarcely developed rivalries for Ash and Serena failing to provide much of obstacle and challenge to protagonists. Who were and are often ahead of them to the point of being dominant. In other words lot of this rivals felt like punching bags.

-Lot of started plots and subplots were either left unfinished or undefined. Like Masked Blaziken man, Malamar(no I don't consider their last appearance to be proper closure leaving room for more to be done given how they were not completely defeated let alone redeemed), Clemont story of becoming stronger and more confident in himself which is barely going anywhere ever since Lumiose gym match etc.

Absoultley nothing about it was a retcon because we knew so little about Ash's childhood to begin with.

Actually for all intents and purposes it was retcon for simple fact of Serena as character not existing in games until 6th generation.

So even if we had rich backstory of Ash childhood she wouldn't been possible to exist in his past until now. Way writers forced Serena character in Ash childhood despite never being mentioned ever since very start(for obvious reasons) with Gary being presented as his only childhood friend and Misty prior to 6th gen as his first female friend was classic textbook example of retcon.

OS: Shitty battles and Johto was terrible, Misty and Brock being background once Johto got started, in fact most things wrong with OS come from Johto

Depends on what period of Johto your talking about.

For example Master Quest was great season on pair with best ones out there imo having lot of creative storylines, character development and new ideas implemented in whole adventure.

Classifying whole Johto which lasted for 3 years as "terrible" would mean deliberately ignoring and denying everything good and even great happening there Most of all describing Misty and Brock as background for entire Johto would be huge understatement.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Kanto: Gym battle and league was lackluster
Johto: Fillers really killed the flow of the series
Hoenn: Lack of a true rival for Ash
Sinnoh: Brock felt out of place
Unova: Basically everything about it was a utter disaster
Kalos: The whole Serena arc was rushed and turned horrible imo
 

giancor

Active Member
I'm rewatching the series (currently on Kanto).

Kanto: The badges giveaway. The battles were a mess, like someone said most of them were K.O.
Unova: whos that trainer with Pikachu?
Kalos: Unfinished plots. Very annoying TR. Ash being worshipped. The relationship between main characters is "perfect", no conflicts between them.
 

Emperor Empoleon

Honor of Kalos
OS ~ Pokemon Battles were often silly and/or broke established mechanics more than any other period in the series.

DP ~ The pacing was way too slow, and with the exception of Paul, Ash's competition was pretty shallow. Why was Nando's Contest performance was so much more fleshed out than his one League Match? What happaned to Alan, or Sho, or the guy that Snorlax off-screened? And Conway...Just. Why? Doesn't help that his final opponent was a God Mode Sue.

BW ~ Most everything pertaining to Ash was a joke, and the source material - the BW games, widely acclaimed for their characterization and story-telling - was terribly underutilized.

XY ~ Ash is liked and/or admired by most every character, and he really doesn't grow anymore. Serena was largely advertised on a shallow romance subplot, and then takes longer than any other heroine to get her personal story off the ground.
 
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British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
Keep in mind that this is my opinion.

Kanto:
- Series felt rushed
- The way Ash got many of his badges
- Many of the battles felt lacklustre
- The Ref during the Ash/Ritchie battle

Orange Islands:
- Tracey didn't receive much development in the short time he was with the group
- Much of the arc (mainly the filler) isn't really memorable

Johto:
- Misty and Brock got less focus
- The GS ball pretty much got the shaft. Wasted story potential
- Not as much focus on the Johto 'mons come the league

Hoenn:
- Lack of rival for Ash
- Not as much focus on Team Magma/Team Aqua as I had hoped

Battle Frontier:
- Max getting less focus
- Despite being in Kanto, not as much focus on Kanto elements/characters as I had hoped.
- The last episode of the arc felt like a recycled version of the last episode of the Orange Islands arc; Gary returning to deal with TR, Ash losing to Gary.

Sinnoh:
- Cassidy and Biff making a random one-off appearance
- The pacing felt rather slow, and resulted in the writers shoehorning in Tobias to beat Ash with a team of legendaries. Felt like a cop-out so they can move on as a result of the pacing.
- Brock felt shafted a lot of the time
- The length of time between Snowpoint and Sunyshore

Unova:
- Ash's regression
- Pacing felt as fast as Kanto (in terms of gyms 'n junk) and resulted in the Decolore Islands arc being pretty much filler
- Iris being annoying (blame the dub for this)
- Too many unnecessary rivals and lack of closure for many of them
- Development for many of Ash's 'mons felt lacking considering the amount he caught
- Cameron
- Zekrom's appearance from the first episode didn't really get expanded on.
- The change in TR's characters
- Cilan didn't get as much development as I hoped

Kalos:
- Tierno essentially getting the shaft in favour of Shota
- Serena starting off slow in terms of an established goal
- Clemont fading into the background after a while, could've received more development
- Noivern, Goodra, etc could've gotten more development
 

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
Ok....

Kanto : Misty's abusiveness towards Ash , Animation , Ash's treatment ( Every one treated him like crap even his so called friends ) How Ash lost the league ( What a cheap way for Ash to loose, dang you writers! )

Orange Islands : Shoved down your throat Pokeshipping hints ( That's my least favorite pairing too, 4Kids had it ten times worse ) Brock returning.

Johto : What a long journey it felt like it took to get to the league, or at least it felt like it with all those dang fillers we got , GS Ball plot ( The arc we were supposed to get dropped yah bummed about that, waste of space than )

AG : Brock , Awful arc for the evil villains of this series ( Hardly developed ) Max from time to time , no rivals for Ash , kind of boring league ( Can barley remember even )

D / P : Dawn's rivals were boring , Zoey was a ***** to Ash for no reason , Kenny ( Over all ) Team Rocket became boring at this point , the ending to Hunter J's arc ( Boy was I disappointed with how things ended for her )

BW : Don't even get me started, so many.....Iris character, the way Iris got her Pokemon wins felt cheap ( Some she shouldn't even have won ) The chemistry between the trio , Trip / Ash's rivalry ( Gosh awful, the heck even happened? Trip calling Ash and his town stupid for no reason? No explanation what's so ever! Than wait, suddenly at the league it's like every things randomly ok? Trip pretty much ignored Ash every time they'd run into one another, what rivalry? It didn't feel like one to me. That or it was one sided for Ash. ) Ash's reset button, why writers why?! Least favorite series ever of Pokemon. Not to mention the league, UGH What a mess! Who the F thought it was a good idea for Ash to loose to a guy like Cameron? On top of that, what was the point to even adding in a rival another rival for the league final if Ash wasn't even going to battle him in the league?

XY : Soo many fillers, just over all the entire series ( Did we get many plots? Just gyms for a while than evil Flare once in a while than back to fillers ) Why so many writers? Not many interactions between characters in our new group, you hardly see Ash and Bonnie interact or Serena and what's his face , the league ( UGH !!!! )
 
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Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Kek. Never change shippers.

C'mon, shouldn't you be complaining about SatoSere also being shoved down your throat? ;)

They were both shoved down our throats even though they have very little relevance in an anime like this one
Honestly though I really wish Misty had more focus during Johto and she should have gotten more tournament arcs like the Whirl Cup one.
 

BlueDragonfangirl

Well-Known Member
Kek. Never change shippers.

C'mon, shouldn't you be complaining about SatoSere also being shoved down your throat? ;)

I don't know, to me Ash X Serena hints seem more spread apart than Ash X Misty hints. It took a year it felt like for us to get hints.

Every episode of Orange Islands felt like they added in hints when they could, course maybe 4Kids also helped with that for some reason :/

Not to mention the second film and that Johto episode Love Pokemon Style. Ash X Serena didn't get any films dedicated to it, which is weird due to how popular it is in Japan.
 

HoundoomFan

shy shipper
Kanto: battles, and a more structured plot. Also, Brock & misty being mostly background.
OI: Tracey's character needed more work.
Johto: it felt like it dragged on, and was mostly forgettable imo. Only the ending I saw differently.
Hoenn: Drew was just a contest copy of Gary. Brock was mostly background.
Sinnoh: ash was starting to feel stale, and fillers where long and mostly awful. Brock wasn't doing much & made it seem much more cuz ash & dawn had their respective goals had better laied out.
Isshu: characters are ether boring or annoying, ash is brain damaged, battles sucked, rival destinies, DI, & conisurers/conisususes whatever Burgundy/cilan's goal was.
Kalos: all characters are practically one demential, & kalos queen was sexist & uninteresting.
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
I don't know, to me Ash X Serena hints seem more spread apart than Ash X Misty hints. It took a year it felt like for us to get hints. Every episode of Orange Islands felt like they added in hints when they could, course maybe 4Kids also helped with that for some reason :/

That's...simply not true, fam. Literally the first seven episodes of XY had a bunch of Serena hints. The childhood flashback scene? There was more shipping than fleshing out her personality.

I don't think you can complain about Ash X Misty hints being frequent in Orange Islands because they actually built up to it with the two getting closer in Kanto, as opposed to dumping all of it at once and reaching status quo by episode 7.

Not to mention the second film and that Johto episode Love Pokemon Style. Ash X Serena didn't get any films dedicated to it, which is weird due to how popular it is in Japan.

Part of the reason why Pokémon 2000 is still a fan favorite to this day.

You know I was one of the old-guards in the original thread you made. But Ash x Serena simply hasn't been handled well. There are few great genuine moments like that river scene or that snowball scene, but otherwise it's just repetitive, practically a gag, of Serena blushing or being awkward while Ash is either clueless or doesn't care.
 

HoundoomFan

shy shipper
So was the Princess vs Princess episode, but it seems like no one has a problem with that, even though it was worse imo :x

I can agree with that, though at least we only had to stuffer though an episode that had a 'be a slave to woman day,' & since then never there have been an episode like 'princess vs princess' as far as I can recall. But yea, I disliked that episode as well.
 

XY Rules

Pokemon Master
Kanto:

-The group had horrible chemistry

-Misty was a bad character

-Team Rocket

-Gary was a bad character

-Ash was focusing too much on trying to one up Gary instead of his actual goal

-Ash got his badges handed to him

Orange Islands:

-No Brock

-Misty was still there

-Team Rocket

Johto:

-Lots of bad filler

-Misty was still there

-Team Rocket

Hoenn:

-Ash didn't have a rival (thus no one to push him)

-Ash didn't really feel like he cared about May (sorry Advanceshippers) since he would hardly ever watch her contests

-Team Rocket

Battle Frontier:

-Same as Hoenn.

Sinnoh:

-The infamous year of filler

-Team Rocket (and at their worst)

Unova

-Ash being reset...

-Iris was a bad character

-Cilan was a bad character

-Trip was a failed attempt at replicating the Paul rivalry

-Cameron

-The Unova League

-No Brock

Kalos

-Serena

-No Brock

-Not letting Ash mega evolve any of his Pokemon.

-Team Rocket
 
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Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
Sure why not?

Kanto: Squirtle and Bulbasaur didn't evolve. Oh I know they are iconic now, but don't tell me you didn't want that back in OS. When I was a kid I so badly wanted Ash with Blastoise and Venusaur to go with his Charizard. That would have been cool. While I'm on the subject, Charizard's disobedience storyline went too long and became somewhat boring by the start of Orange Islands. Ash didn't fight Giovanni and shut down TR. That should have happened in Kanto and I would have loved to have seen Ash be the hero to defeat Giovanni and Mewtwo when Gary couldn't. I know it was impossible to beat Mewtwo back then but I wanted it. Do I even need to bring up certain Gyms?

Orange Islands: Meh. Maybe it should have just been Ash and Misty alone...on Lapras. The shipping that would have been lol.

Johto: Just a boring season. I think naming it's strong points would be tougher.

Hoenn/AG: What Soniman said. May's dynamic fizzled out when she got into Contest. Before she felt like a member of the family that is the awesome AG group, but as the series went on May became more distant from the group. I greatly appreciate that she became so independent because it showed her growth and I consider May one of the best characters in the entire Pokemon series, but it did feel like when she got Contest she also became less of a group member and the only reason I consider it a flaw is because the AG group was just so darn good. Ash, May, Max, and even Brock were outstanding so to see it fade a little sadden me.

Battle Frontier: Not as fun as AG.

Sinnoh/DP: Paul forever ruined rivals. Let me explain why. He was great. Maybe a little too great. Paul set the bar too high and every rival that came after him gets pwned for not living up to expectations. Even when they try a Paul-like rival that character is crapped on. Friendly rivals get crapped on because they don't bring what Paul did. Even the other rivals of DP get crapped on because Paul overshadowed them and they come off as not good enough in comparison. People don't realize one of the reasons May's rivals worked in AG. Ash didn't have rivals. That was a factor in why May's rivals worked so well. Paul was too good of a rival and forever changed how rivals are viewed. In terms of Ash I don't think it's possible to top Paul as a rival.

Then there's the Sinnoh GF. I loved nearly everything about Dawn except for the GF. What a slap in the face that was. How do you go from Ursula vs Dawn and Zoey vs Nando to Dawn vs Jessie? That was a glorified TR blast off. I was moderately fine with Jessie's contest up until this point and now I consider it a mistake. Ursula should have been top 4, because she actually could have beaten Dawn if the point system accurately worked. But Dawn vs Jessie was a random Team Rocket beatdown. They same style that happens in almost every filler. In no way shape or form should this be a Top 4 Grand Festival match. This hurt Dawn's credibility IMO. They should have given her someone new to face she hadn't beaten before. That is what made May's second BF so meaningful when she finally beat Drew, a opponent she couldn't beat before.

The Buizel/Aipom trade was pointless. Both Pokemon were more interesting with their original characters and became generic after the trade. I wasn't against the trade but why get rid of Ambipom? Dawn had plenty of room for new Pokemon.

And finally from DP, I found everyone who have still been around since OS to be very boring. Ash, Brock, and TR were really becoming stale here when they were not playing off new characters.

BW/Unova: N/A

XY/Kalos: The handling of Clemont. In that Gym battle it was like Clemont was this underdog trainer and Ash was the Cynthia level opponent he could never beat. I wanted to root for Clemont to overcome Ash but because he's the Gym Leader he has to lose making this storyline unsatisfying for Clemont and a lousy way to end his character arc. Serena didn't get enough Pokemon, her goal and blah blah blah. Nobody on the main cast got Mega Pokemon? Unless you count Ash-Greninja? The rivals needed more of a push. They had potential but the writing prevented them from getting to far.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
Sinnoh/DP: Paul forever ruined rivals. Let me explain why. He was great. Maybe a little too great. Paul set the bar too high and every rival that came after him gets pwned for not living up to expectations. Even when they try a Paul-like rival that character is crapped on. Friendly rivals get crapped on because they don't bring what Paul did. Even the other rivals of DP get crapped on because Paul overshadowed them and they come off as not good enough in comparison. People don't realize one of the reasons May's rivals worked in AG. Ash didn't have rivals. That was a factor in why May's rivals worked so well. Paul was too good of a rival and forever changed how rivals are viewed. In terms of Ash I don't think it's possible to top Paul as a rival.

I don't see how that is a flaw in DP's part. Yes it did set the bar way too high to make all other rivals look really silly. But it was also one of DP's strongest points, if not the strongest. Without Paul DP would be much worse. Like much much worse. It showed us how much potential rivals have in this anime.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
I don't see how that is a flaw in DP's part. Yes it did set the bar way too high to make all other rivals look really silly. But it was also one of DP's strongest points, if not the strongest. Without Paul DP would be much worse. Like much much worse. It showed us how much potential rivals have in this anime.

I already praised Paul as one of the best things in DP in overview of each series thread. I see Paul as strength of DP but also a unintentional flaw for the future as well. Also as great as Paul was, he didn't make DP himself. In that sense I'd even call Paul overrated, and I am a fan of the character. Paul is a reason why rivals are so harshly criticized and it began even in the DP series.
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I already praised Paul as one of the best things in DP in overview of each series thread. I see Paul as strength of DP but also a unintentional flaw for the future as well. Also as great as Paul was, he didn't make DP himself. In that sense I'd even call Paul overrated, and I am a fan of the character. Paul is a reason why rivals are so harshly criticized and it began even in the DP series.

We can all agree on one thing with Paul, his sendoff was weak.
 
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