Birds, Frogs, and Washing Machines: The Story of Online Battling in a Nutshell

[Hidden Power]

Wait, are you saying that competitive battlers - that is, people playing Pokemon to win - tend to gravitate toward the most effective Pokemon?

Scandalous, really.

He's probably referring to how the mechanics of imperfect balance doesn't seem to work for the Pokemon metgame. Here's a video that explains it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

But what confuses me the most is that as a powerhouse rises, shouldn't it's counters rise as well resulting in a more variable environment overall? Let's use talonflame and greninja as examples...Mega aerodactyl easily counters both of them...and yet I'm the only one I've seen actually use one online XD

For Pokemon, the gap between the best and worst is rather wide, and you're looking at a pool of over 350 final stage Pokemon. Counters to rising powerhouses and counters to those counters exists, but if you delve into the lower tiers to look for a counter for something in the upper tier, chances are your counter gets countered more easily as well. So people tend to rotate among a smaller group of better Pokemon. Isn't this how tiers were born in the first place? And in hindsight, we do have Pokemon that are just outright outclassed, so the actual number of effective choices are lower than the number of final stage Pokemon. Obvious examples are Pigeot and Fearow compared to other regional normal/flying, but right now Arcanine is outclassed by Entei, Ninjask is outclassed by Scolipede, just to name some a few.

It's rather different from examples like Smash Bros and LoL.

 

[Marbi Z]

I must admit... The mighty Dragon type has really takin a hit with this new Fairy type but that's basically a repeat of gen 2 with the introduction of the Dark type. Though I think the Fairy type is a bit OP there aren't to many good Steel and Poison type attacks and few Pokes can learn Cross Poison... Despite all this I still play for fun. I only use Pokemon that I like even if it means winning less often and I know I'm not alone. Despite what the OP suggested I still encounter plenty of rouge teams in Random Match. So while the so-called Metagame has been shaken I still see plenty of Rouge teams and will continue to battle with the Pokemon I like best. PS I think all 3 Kalos Starters Final Evo's are awesome! Especially Delphox!

 

[XXD17]

One time a person complained about me using Aegislash when he had a Mega Lucario and an Azumarill on his own team. The irony made me chuckle.

Whenever the goal of a game is to win, people will do what it takes to win. Sadly, most people ignore the 200+ truly viable Pokemon out there and just use the ones that everybody else uses, regardless of another Pokemon that might do its job better. I use Roserade on my main team, and it is irreplaceable.

Lol this post made me remember my old rain OU team back in fifth gen showdown....the only truly OU pokemon on that team was politoed for the rain...I also had a celebi for seeds, an omastar, lanturn, and an AZUMARILL before it became super hyped with its fairy typing....just imagine how far azumarill came...funny I don't see it more, I like using it more than greninja

Wait, are you saying that competitive battlers - that is, people playing Pokemon to win - tend to gravitate toward the most effective Pokemon?

Scandalous, really.

Then I must be that one weirdo who isn't simply happy with with winning but rather winning with my favorite pokemon lol...I still remember sweeping someone's team of greninja, aegislash, and megazard Y with my BP smeargle and serperior...now THAT was a satisfying win....see if I just wanted to "win" I would just throw out my perfect IV/ EV'd extremekiller arceus and let it run rampant on random battles....would I ever do that? No! Why? Because it's not fun...(I do however, carry around said arceus or an occasional darkrai just in case I get someone with a whole team of Uber legendaries)

 

[Marbi Z]

Lol this post made me remember my old rain OU team back in fifth gen showdown....the only truly OU pokemon on that team was politoed for the rain...I also had a celebi for seeds, an omastar, lanturn, and an AZUMARILL before it became super hyped with its fairy typing....just imagine how far azumarill came...funny I don't see it more, I like using it more than greninja

My biggest beef with Asumarill this gen is it's new Sap Sipper ability YOU DON'T GIVE A POKEMON WITH SAID TYPE WEAKNESS IMMUNITY TO THAT WEAKNESS!!! HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT!?

Then I must be that one weirdo who isn't simply happy with with winning but rather winning with my favorite pokemon lol...I still remember sweeping someone's team of greninja, aegislash, and megazard Y with my BP smeargle and serperior...now THAT was a satisfying win....see if I just wanted to "win" I would just throw out my perfect IV/ EV'd extremekiller arceus and let it run rampant on random battles....would I ever do that? No! Why? Because it's not fun...(I do however, carry around said arceus or an occasional darkrai just in case I get someone with a whole team of Uber legendaries)

I respect players who try to win with said Pokemon because they actually like them and not just because there effective battler's though whoever thought it was a good idea to allow Legends in Random Match was a freakin idiot!

 

[KillerDraco]

My biggest beef with Asumarill this gen is it's new Sap Sipper ability YOU DON'T GIVE A POKEMON WITH SAID TYPE WEAKNESS IMMUNITY TO THAT WEAKNESS!!! HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT!?

Because not using Huge Power makes Azumarill completely useless.

 

[XXD17]

Because not using Huge Power makes Azumarill completely useless.

Not necessarily...with its big HP, azumarill can function OK as a wall...I've used a sap sipper one before with max HP and special D....see, I tend to really enjoy using weird sets on common pokes...some that I've used before are wall T-tars with roar and thunder wave, roost/ iron defense/ sub/ d-tail salamence, and sub chomp with SR...they are very impractical but they catch people off guard who are so familiar with the cookie cutter sets....

I use Mega Luke. No I dont feel bad for using him. I should be able to use one of my favorite Pokemon without people complaining. Is he OP? Sure, maybe. That still wont stop me from using him.

All the Pokemon you listed are annoying, but can be beaten easily with the right Pokemon. Its all about who has the better team.

See, there wasn't a complaint in the first place...feel free to use any pokemon for any purpose to your heart's content...I'm not berating anyone or hating on the metagame...I'm just wondering how the fan base has shaped the metagame...so far from your statement, it seems that most of the fanbase are more concerned with winning...even if it means using the same set over and over again...that's something that I couldn't do without getting bored so I ask this question: As much as you love your Mega Lucario, doesn't it get tiresome running the same set over and over again? I mean I LOVE Mega Kangaskhan...it's my favorite mega (followed by aerodactyl and venusaur)...but having to fake out/ POP/ return over and over again, I just can't do it...I barely even use mega khan anymore...

 

[GoldenHouou]

There have always been Pokémon that get a lot more use than others in every single gen. In last gen, especially in PO, I actually stood up and shouted from joy whenever I ran into a team that wasn't weather based - which pretty much meant I stood up maybe once per day. Every single rain and sun team was basically the same as well, and they were all equally easy to beat and boring to fight against - once you learned how they worked, even my mono team could kick their asses with relative ease. Well, except for that #"#"(# Venusaur in the sun.

Anyway.

I personally only use Pokémon that I like using, and that means that sometimes my team has a lot of UU Pokémon, sometimes it has a lot of OU ones. I love Talonflame, so I use it. Greninja on occasion, as well. I don't see that as a sin. Both have a huge amount of counters, as do most of the other Pokémon listed. The only one I hate seeing is Wash-Rotom, really, and that's because I tend to lack counters for it. Even the over abundance of Mewtwo (if we're talking random battles with random passersby) doesn't really bother me.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

lawof minimum effort, if it works why would i risk of changing its?

I barely use those pokes, the ones i find the most is the same k-genesect and mandi-wash wich are raped by subusers and taunt choice trcking so there isnt much of a trouble.

It kinda gets boring when you taunt\tricked the same pokemon in 3 diferent matches against 3 diferent people...with 3 diferent trick users (azelf,meowstic,rotom mow) well it is kinda funny but sad at the same ti me.

I mean i just won with a dreaam eater prankster meowstic...I hope there would be more variety in online matches.

 

[Saturnidae]

Well, though I could care less about competitve, I have to agree seeing the same 5 or 6 Pokemon is extremely boring. Have you ever tried looking at people's favorites? (the one they have in amie) It seems to always be Talonflame.. talonflame, talonflame etc... I wish people would just use pokemon they love instead of always choosing the same for strength... If you ask me that ends up making the game really boring.

 

[MDS777]

Well, though I could care less about competitve, I have to agree seeing the same 5 or 6 Pokemon is extremely boring. Have you ever tried looking at people's favorites? (the one they have in amie) It seems to always be Talonflame.. talonflame, talonflame etc... I wish people would just use pokemon they love instead of always choosing the same for strength... If you ask me that ends up making the game really boring.

Talonflame is only my "favorite" because it's always in my party while breeding. Though, I guess it could be because several people use Talonflame competitively too.

 

[Everlasting]

I have a competitive team made of rarely used Pokémon (not the category RU, just Pokémon not really used altogether). I use Yanmega, Ambipom, Gorebyss, Salamence, Clefable and Banette (for Mega Evolution). I don't see any of these, aside maybe Salamence and Ambipom, being used in competitive plays.
Those you named come up pretty frequently and it becomes a little bit boring to fight the same frog, the same sword and the same washing machine every time. I always giggle when I defeat such a team (yes, I manage!).
I'd really like to see more varied teams. It's so nice to see unique teams; they, at least, have strategies to get over their disadvantage (such as lower stats and movepools). I honestly prefer to be totally crushed by an interesting team than to win against a Aegislash/Greninja/Talonflame/Rotom-W team... There's much more to competitive than winning. People don't seem to realize that. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Nerdboyiam]

The one thing that I find well about these new powerhouses in the metagame is that my galvantula has gained a permanent spot on my team counter talonflame and greninja and the occasional mega blaziken perfectly with focus sash (although so far he survived perfectly against greninjas with 30ish hp) it also seems that having a tank or burner is a must to stop all the physical sweepers everywhere.

 

[Dragonair7]

I would love to see more versatility in the games. This is partially the game's fault, because only so many pokemon are viable for competitive use.

 

[Ruas]

Once I tried competitive battling - I used my in-game team. Needless to say, I was destroyed. After a bit more research on tactics & viable Pokemon, I was kinda saddened that I couldn't battle with my team with which I went on this great adventure. I didn't like the idea of switching the team, especially for a more commonly used Pokemon. Battles would indeed become less colourful if the same Pokemons were used. But, I've also come to realize that it's just my taste buds that are geared that way.

If we think about Chess - everyone has the exact same pieces, yet the game is still fun. It's purely focused on the tactics. I guess, here since we have the choice of which Chess pieces to use in our team, that's what creates the problem. People like the ones in Smogon might perceive Pokemon battles like chess, so despite seeing the same Pokemons, it doesn't get boring at all. There is still a lot of unpredictability which is enough to get them excited. Some of these battles, when written as war stories, become really enjoyable.

 

[XXD17]

I have a competitive team made of rarely used Pokémon (not the category RU, just Pokémon not really used altogether). I use Yanmega, Ambipom, Gorebyss, Salamence, Clefable and Banette (for Mega Evolution). I don't see any of these, aside maybe Salamence and Ambipom, being used in competitive plays.
Those you named come up pretty frequently and it becomes a little bit boring to fight the same frog, the same sword and the same washing machine every time. I always giggle when I defeat such a team (yes, I manage!).
I'd really like to see more varied teams. It's so nice to see unique teams; they, at least, have strategies to get over their disadvantage (such as lower stats and movepools). I honestly prefer to be totally crushed by an interesting team than to win against a Aegislash/Greninja/Talonflame/Rotom-W team... There's much more to competitive than winning. People don't seem to realize that. But that's just my opinion.

That's a really nice team! Probably the most novel team I've ever seen was one that used an actual vivillon...it had focus sash so it managed to put my serperior to sleep and proceeded to use hurricane...thankfully, I had baton passed it some quiver dances so it took the hurricane and got the KO with HP fire...I find joy in facing these teams but they really are rare...I saw a team with a bisharp the other day and got a little excited...then I looked at what else he had....talonflame...cue mega aerodactyl lol

 

[rotomotorz]

No matter how much you dislike seeing the same Pokemon over and over again, to be fair, it is really hard to make a team of uncommon Pokemon and still be successful. I like to use two or three of my favorites and balance it out with some common Pokemon that fill in essential roles my team misses. Just because my current team consists of a Greninja, Excadril, and a Talonflame doesn't mean I'm not using my favorites or I'm not using uncommon Pokemon, because I am. Unless you consider Mega Gardevoir, Rotom(no forme), and Roserade common. Also, for what its worth, I used to use Mega Areodactyl on one of my older teams.

 

[Emperor Empoleon]

While it is great to see players being successful with something different, its not that big a deal to me what others go with.

With my own selection, I only ever play the game when its with my favorites. And for me that includes a solid amount of Pokemon from every generation.

 

[XXD17]

I've just realized...it's the sweepers that I actually get bored of using over and over again...I don't get as bored of using the same support pokemon repetitively...is this the case with anyone else here who enjoys team variety as well?

 

[The Benmeister]

Eh, it's always been that way as far back as I can remember through the generations, just with different Pokemon.

People play for their own experiences, I personally find joy in bringing the best out of lesser used Pokemon, but there's also joy just in winning with the most effective. People get a kick out of competitive battling for different reasons and they always have done.

 

[Shao-May]

I think you should add Goodra. Every single time I decide to do online battling I'm always defeated by a Goodra. For the team variety you have one player here. I changed my team at least 6 times and I think I'm still not satisfied. Though I must admit if I could get my hand on my Mew I would surely overuse it. What I just love Mew and It's name in capital letters XD.

I wish I could sweep an entire team with an Audino, Vivillion and Mew, but even in game this woudn't work.