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Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl Speculation/Discussion Thread!

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
They underestimate kids....
I am sure many kids would want this too, but oh well
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
They underestimate kids....
I am sure many kids would want this too, but oh well

Exactly. They're not mindless. They like to do other things outside of mobile games.

But heck, their (GameFreak) view of fans overall these days is a bleak one. And I'm thinking it could hurt the games in the long run. Neglecting other parts of a fan base is never good.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Exactly. They're not mindless. They like to other things outside of mobile games.

But heck, their (GameFreak) view of fans overall these days is bleak one. And I'm thinking it could hurt the games in the long run. Neglecting other parts of a fan base is never good.
You r right.
I am sure they know many of the fans are ones that grew up with the games, hence all the Kanto pandering. They just decide to ignore this fact when it comes to bringing back stuff like Battle Frontier
 

Pokemon Power

Well-Known Member
Link

Q (Interviewer) : We noticed ORAS had a lower difficulty level compared to previous Pokemon games. What bought you to this decision? Any chance that future games will have the possibility to adjust difficulty level as seen in Black and White 2?

A (Junichi Masuda) : What? How come you've already played the games? hearty laughter [the games were supposed to come out in Italy the day after the interview] We created a "balanced" game that was suited for our time and age, where everyone is very busy and young people have various means of entertainment. Using smartphones and other devices they can access a great number of games, so the time they dedicate to a single game is less than in the past. The player can choose to keep on playing after the main story and continue to the post-game, where the difficulty rises and there are much more difficult Trainers and challenges to overcome.

Q : Why wasn't the Battle Frontier in the remakes?

A : This question is connected with my previous answer. We didn't put the BF in ORAS for this very reason. Interviewer's note: In short he means that they didn't include the BF because only a very small part of the players would have fully appreciated and made use of this feature; nowadays players get bored and frustrated more easily and they aren't interested in things that are so demanding/challenging.



So yeah, kids are too dumb and want to play mobile games. Battle Frontier has a very low chance of coming back.
In other words, they didn't think the newer fans would enjoy it.
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Okay, unpopular opinion: I'd be okay if there was no battle frontier. Most of the non-Tower modes are too gimmicky (if not outright RNG dependent), and while they have some novelty at first, they become a major slog after the first few times. I feel like most people like the idea of the Battle Frontier more than its actual execution.

I wouldn't hold my breath for the Frontier after OR/AS didn't have them, but then again there's no way to know for certain until the games either release or they outright confirm/deny it prior to release.
You're not wrong. Let us have a look!

Battle Factory: This is fine. Renting and swapping out Pokemon is actually neat. You could still be put up with mostly bad Pokemon but overall, I think it works and it was good that they kept it in Platinum.

Battle Tower: Same schtick like other towers/equivalents. Generic but mostly works.

Battle Pike: You go into a Seviper where the rooms are random with hardly(?) any idea what is in them. Sure people we complain about how towers rig us against teams that are all effective against the team you brought but choosing a random door with little hints is totally tolerable!

Battle Dome: This one is also fine mostly. Being able to look at your opponent's stats and stuff before battling is cool. Idk how to feel about the other factors that affect you advancing but it is far from the worst.

Battle Arena: Very dumb mind, soul, whatever bs that determines how well you score...especially with it being vague in game iirc. And it can be over stupidly quick because you brought in the wrong moveset.

Battle Palace: Need I say more? It's just auto-pilot Pokemon battling with a lot of shenanigans that can easily screw you over because RNG hated you.

Battle Pyramid: Fog of War isn't a bad concept but since you can't see anything, it makes it that much more of a hassle.

So in conclusion: How does anyone actually find over half of these fun without getting angry
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I should mention that while I think Let's Go is a good template for a "faithful remake" there were story bits that were significantly different in Let's Go. I don't think that will be the case in BDSP.

Now I wish we could get regional form trades in BDSP.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
And I'm thinking it could hurt the games in the long run.

Aren't we discussing comments about a game that will be seven years old by the time BD/SP release? Seven years, two generations, several rounds of core titles, and a hardware ago.

Keeping in mind that everything has been accused of doing damage to the games in the long run - every element added, every element omitted, and every feature that never existed in the first place - what damage has been done in the long run with the omission of the Battle Frontier in OR/AS?
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Aren't we discussing comments about a game that will be seven years old by the time BD/SP release? Seven years, two generations, several rounds of core titles, and a hardware ago.

Keeping in mind that everything has been accused of doing damage to the games in the long run - every element added, every element omitted, and every feature that never existed in the first place - what damage has been done in the long run with the omission of the Battle Frontier in OR/AS?
I meant in general for what it's worth. Not in regards to Diamond and Pearl.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
Not sure that changes much. Again, seven years and a lot of games since. Even in general, what damage has been done in the long run for omitting the Battle Frontier?
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Not sure that changes much. Again, seven years and a lot of games since. Even in general, what damage has been done in the long run for omitting the Battle Frontier?
Yea, but the lack of puzzles and what not since has been a glaring one.

I'm glad that Sword and Shield brought it back in a way, but I do wish that it was a main game thing, instead of being DLC (leaving out the new game and DLC packs they released later, this is in regards to the original main games release). But it showed how much it had been missed.

Even Battle Tower was ok. Something that didn't require people to battle real life friends.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Okay, unpopular opinion: I'd be okay if there was no battle frontier. Most of the non-Tower modes are too gimmicky (if not outright RNG dependent), and while they have some novelty at first, they become a major slog after the first few times. I feel like most people like the idea of the Battle Frontier more than its actual execution.

I wouldn't hold my breath for the Frontier after OR/AS didn't have them, but then again there's no way to know for certain until the games either release or they outright confirm/deny it prior to release.
Bad execution isn't a reason to want a feature entirely cut though, that just means it needs better execution. There were some good facilities in there that are worth saving, they just need to be smarter about which facilities to include. The lack of a Battle Frontier definitely leaves a gaping void in the gameplay in terms of varied types of battling styles, so cutting it is definitely detrimental to the series. It could stand to be refined to make it more appealing, but cutting it outright is a detriment to the series.

All that sounds depressing. Having the games only be aimed at that audience and the competitive one, leaves other parts of the audience out.

Not everyone plays mobile games all the time, and even so, some people like some variety and challenge in a game.

To have it be stripped down to such a bland experience is both depressing and sad. :( (This coming from someone who didn't like all of the battle frontier. But at least it added to the game.)

Battling and item hunting leave little to be desired.
No offense but like... where have you been for the last 7 years? This interview has frequently been brought up in this kind of discussion and other fans have shared similar sentiments.

Really though, things have improved a bit during the Switch era to the point where I don't think that interview is 100% true (PR statements rarely are, but their actions don't seem to entirely match their words here). What I think is really going on is that Game Freak struggled with development in 3D because 3D graphics needs a lot more manpower and resources to develop, so they tried to make cuts to the games to get them done in time. This is why many of the recent games have felt lacking in content. So they prioritized content that was broadly appealing and would drive sales. In ORAS' case, they decided Contests, Secret Bases, Dexnav, and Soaring would be those kinds of features (and it's hard to fault them for thinking these features would be more appealing).

But I think things have changed with the Switch. During the 3DS era, mobile dominated the market, the whole industry was suffering because of it, and there was growing concern that mobile was going to kill traditional consoles. But now? The mobile market seems to have settled a bit and consoles are not only surviving, but some like the PS4 and Switch have been thriving. Speaking of, Nintendo has now merged their home and handheld consoles and Game Freak is now along for the ride on consoles being forced to compete with flagship AAA games like BotW and Mario Odyssey. So with Game Freak transitioning to mobile looking less viable and having to adapt to console and even further demands with HD console development, they seem to feel they have no choice but to spend more time on development and now with BDSP and LA their strategy appears to be outsource the smaller games and focus internally on larger, open world entries and utilizing DLC to add extra features they didn't have time for.

So I think it's plausible we could see the return of more extra content, it depends on how much they can get done focusing on one open world game in about 3 years (it could also be possible that the extra time just goes into getting the open world map design right). But in general, I think they're adapting and this is a more positive direction for the series. Not as sure about the Battle Frontier in BDSP though. Since ILCA is relatively inexperienced and the game is still 3D (even if it looks very similar to DPPt), they might not have as much time for extra features.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
Been around the entire time (just less frequently, since I was doing other things in rl). And I didn't like the direction of things then (in Pokemon games since X and Y), and still don't now.

What you mentioned comes down to what will make them money in the easiest way possible. At least in regards to the audience part. I do agree with you on the graphics problems. That could have been a thing there as well.

That said, at least they're getting it with ICLA. It's just too bad that more challenge is being relegated to a separate game (not that I mind the game, I just miss it from the main series itself).
 
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Aryash Bajaj

Say I'm fat again!
But I think things have changed with the Switch. During the 3DS era, mobile dominated the market, the whole industry was suffering because of it, and there was growing concern that mobile was going to kill traditional consoles. But now? The mobile market seems to have settled a bit and consoles are not only surviving, but some like the PS4 and Switch have been thriving. Speaking of, Nintendo has now merged their home and handheld consoles and Game Freak is now along for the ride on consoles being forced to compete with flagship AAA games like BotW and Mario Odyssey. So with Game Freak transitioning to mobile looking less viable and having to adapt to console and even further demands with HD console development, they seem to feel they have no choice but to spend more time on development and now with BDSP and LA their strategy appears to be outsource the smaller games and focus internally on larger, open world entries and utilizing DLC to add extra features they didn't have time for.

Game Freak doesn't have, and never will have, any reason to upgrade their games. They hit a goldmine with RBY, only that the goldmine will never run out of gold. I didn't buy SwSh nor am I planning to, but even with all the controversy over Dexit, it sold 20 million copies. There are many (and by many, I mean maaaaaaaaaaaaany) games that are exponentially better than any Pokemon game ever made and come out a lower price but have sales way less than that. Pokemon is already selling way too good for them to even consider change.

Nintendo has always tried to maintain quality in their new releases (but their full cost ports are pretty bad) and BoTW and Odyssey are just examples of that. Nintendo isn't just making good games nowadays, Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were basically "Learn from us how to make a game" to the entire industry at thay point.

Pokemon, however, has never even tried that level of creativity or refinement in any of the games. They fail to compare to games of their times on almost any aspect.

The enjoyment and love of Pokemon has never been on how good the game is, but rather how good of a Pokemon game it is. People don't compare it to Final Fantasy 6 or Persona. They compare these games to the previous Pokemon entry. As long as the fanbase is comparing the games to BW2 or HGSS, you get "Meh, this wasn't as good. Fine, maybe the next one will be better". If you compare it to FF6 (an RPG with turn based combat) you'll get "Holy fock, why the hell did I buy this garbage !!!".

Simple point, the majority of people don't buy Pokemon with the intention to play a game with well crafted RPG mechanics, innovative gameplay and a deep storyline since it'll be **** if you go in looking for those. They play it for Pokémon, since it can't be found anywhere else. Same reason for why the sales are so high despite the mediocre game. There isn't any alternative to Pokémon. You can't get it anyway else. People love the idea of Pokemon. TPC just makes so much money of merchandise that great sales look like small numbers in comparison. Game Freak gets 32 % of that and is more than happy.

I fear the same will be the case for Legends Arceus. Game Freak is tackling something they have no experience in and open world is so overdone at this point. People will still buy it because Pokemon.

The problem with going open world is that there is no mercy if you screw it up. The 'Open World RPG' genre is bloated way too much. The classic Pokemon experience prevented such backlash as you couldn't get that anywhere. Your go open world RPG route and you just shot yourselves in the foot when you have a thousand other games to compare to.
 
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Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Game Freak doesn't have, and never will have, any reason to upgrade their games. They hit a goldmine with RBY, only that the goldmine will never run out of gold. I didn't buy SwSh nor am I planning to, but even with all the controversy over Dexit, it sold 20 million copies. There are many (and by many, I mean maaaaaaaaaaaaany) games that are exponentially better than any Pokemon game ever made and come out a lower price but have sales way less than that. Pokemon is already selling way too good for them to even consider change.

Nintendo has always tried to maintain quality in their new releases (but their full cost ports are pretty bad) and BoTW and Odyssey are just examples of that. Nintendo isn't just making good games nowadays, Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were basically "Learn from us how to make a game" to the entire industry at thay point.

Pokemon, however, has never even tried that level of creativity or refinement in any of the games. They fail to compare to games of their times on almost any aspect.

The enjoyment and love of Pokemon has never been on how good the game is, but rather how good of a Pokemon game it is. People don't compare it to Final Fantasy 6 or Persona. They compare these games to the previous Pokemon entry. As long as the fanbase is comparing the games to BW2 or HGSS, you get "Meh, this wasn't as good. Fine, maybe the next one will be better". If you compare it to FF6 (an RPG with turn based combat) you'll get "Holy fock, why the hell did I buy this garbage !!!".

Simple point, the majority of people don't buy Pokemon with the intention to play a game with well crafted RPG mechanics, innovative gameplay and a deep storyline since it'll be **** if you go in looking for those. They play it for Pokémon, since it can't be found anywhere else. Same reason for why the sales are so high despite the mediocre game. There isn't any alternative to Pokémon. You can't get it anyway else. People love the idea of Pokemon. TPC just makes so much money of merchandise that great sales look like small numbers in comparison. Game Freak gets 32 % of that and is more than happy.

I fear the same will be the case for Legends Arceus. Game Freak is tackling something they have no experience in and open world is so overdone at this point. People will still buy it because Pokemon.

The problem with going open world is that there is no mercy if you screw it up. The 'Open World RPG' genre is bloated way too much. The classic Pokemon experience prevented such backlash as you couldn't get that anywhere. Your go open world RPG route and you just shot yourselves in the foot when you have a thousand other games to compare to.

I think a big part of the problem is there really aren't many similar games to Pokemon to compare it to. It's not a traditional JRPG although it does share some simularities to the genre. It's by far the most well-known monster battler game and, while I know there are others, the small handful I've tried have generally been even shallower than Pokemon. Finally, the appropriate-for-all-ages style of its storylines, dialogue, etc. makes it very difficult to compare to other games that I play which simply lack that staunch attitude. It's hard to criticise Pokemon for generally having a shallow storyline when that's sort of the point.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Unpopular opinion but... I say we replace the Battle Frontier with PokeAthlon.
 

Aryash Bajaj

Say I'm fat again!
I think a big part of the problem is there really aren't many similar games to Pokemon to compare it to. It's not a traditional JRPG although it does share some simularities to the genre. It's by far the most well-known monster battler game and, while I know there are others, the small handful I've tried have generally been even shallower than Pokemon. Finally, the appropriate-for-all-ages style of its storylines, dialogue, etc. makes it very difficult to compare to other games that I play which simply lack that staunch attitude. It's hard to criticise Pokemon for generally having a shallow storyline when that's sort of the point.

... that's pretty much what I said but thanks for the summary.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
... that's pretty much what I said but thanks for the summary.
Seemed to me like you were saying essentially the opposite, like here...
If you compare it to FF6 (an RPG with turn based combat) you'll get "Holy fock, why the hell did I buy this garbage !!!".
and here...
Your go open world RPG route and you just shot yourselves in the foot when you have a thousand other games to compare to.


Comparing Pokemon to FF6 or pretty much any other open world game is comparing apples to oranges. You might as well compare it to World of Warcraft, or Call of Duty. That's sort of the point I'm trying to get at is there's a reason why Pokemon games are only ever compared to other Pokemon games. You seemingly acknowledge this... but then you also seemingly go ahead and contradict your own acknowledgement with the above quotes.

We can argue about whether or not Pokemon games are good or bad compared to other games until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is there really isn't an objective metric we can measure with, so the whole discussion is kind of pointless. It's mostly subjective.
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
here isn't any alternative to Pokémon
Well, there have been similar games like Yo-Kai Watch & Temtem (plus an upcoming indie game called Casette Beasts), but none of them have ever been as successful as pokemon
 

Aryash Bajaj

Say I'm fat again!
Seemed to me like you were saying essentially the opposite, like here...

Simple point, the majority of people don't buy Pokemon with the intention to play a game with well crafted RPG mechanics, innovative gameplay and a deep storyline since it'll be **** if you go in looking for those. They play it for Pokémon, since it can't be found anywhere else. Same reason for why the sales are so high despite the mediocre game. There isn't any alternative to Pokémon. You can't get it anyway else. People love the idea of Pokemon. TPC just makes so much money of merchandise that great sales look like small numbers in comparison. Game Freak gets 32 % of that and is more than happy.

The part you quoted were supposed to show why people woudn't compare Pokemon to the other games, since the comparison wouldn't help anyone.

Open world completely removes the identity of Pokémon. It isn't the unique experience you get only in Pokemon. Pokémon is making those linear games with the same gym/trial structure for years because they sell well with the newer generations. The toddlers don't really have an appeal for open world or anything, but the older audience has tons of other open world games to compare it to.
 
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