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Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl Speculation/Discussion Thread!

Divine Retribution

See who you are, where from, what of
... that's pretty much what I said but thanks for the summary.
Seemed to me like you were saying essentially the opposite, like here...
If you compare it to FF6 (an RPG with turn based combat) you'll get "Holy fock, why the hell did I buy this garbage !!!".
and here...
Your go open world RPG route and you just shot yourselves in the foot when you have a thousand other games to compare to.


Comparing Pokemon to FF6 or pretty much any other open world game is comparing apples to oranges. You might as well compare it to World of Warcraft, or Call of Duty. That's sort of the point I'm trying to get at is there's a reason why Pokemon games are only ever compared to other Pokemon games. You seemingly acknowledge this... but then you also seemingly go ahead and contradict your own acknowledgement with the above quotes.

We can argue about whether or not Pokemon games are good or bad compared to other games until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is there really isn't an objective metric we can measure with, so the whole discussion is kind of pointless. It's mostly subjective.
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
here isn't any alternative to Pokémon
Well, there have been similar games like Yo-Kai Watch & Temtem (plus an upcoming indie game called Casette Beasts), but none of them have ever been as successful as pokemon
 
Seemed to me like you were saying essentially the opposite, like here...

Simple point, the majority of people don't buy Pokemon with the intention to play a game with well crafted RPG mechanics, innovative gameplay and a deep storyline since it'll be **** if you go in looking for those. They play it for Pokémon, since it can't be found anywhere else. Same reason for why the sales are so high despite the mediocre game. There isn't any alternative to Pokémon. You can't get it anyway else. People love the idea of Pokemon. TPC just makes so much money of merchandise that great sales look like small numbers in comparison. Game Freak gets 32 % of that and is more than happy.

The part you quoted were supposed to show why people woudn't compare Pokemon to the other games, since the comparison wouldn't help anyone.

Open world completely removes the identity of Pokémon. It isn't the unique experience you get only in Pokemon. Pokémon is making those linear games with the same gym/trial structure for years because they sell well with the newer generations. The toddlers don't really have an appeal for open world or anything, but the older audience has tons of other open world games to compare it to.
 
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Dragalge

Custom title: If specified, this will replace the
Tbh though I don't get why people think some interview from 2014 means it will always hold that the Battle Frontier will never appear. They said that they wouldn't want to axe any Pokemon from a game in 2011 iirc only for SWSH to do that (at least until they brought some Pokemon back, showing some cuts can be temporary)

People can and have the ability change their minds js
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Comparing Pokemon to FF6 or pretty much any other open world game
Final Fantasy 6 is not an "open world game". Up until the World of Ruin (the last part of the story) it's entirely linear. And all you do in the WoR is collecting your party members, and even good chunk of that is linear.
 

Rapiido

Well-Known Member
Tbh though I don't get why people think some interview from 2014 means it will always hold that the Battle Frontier will never appear. They said that they wouldn't want to axe any Pokemon from a game in 2011 iirc only for SWSH to do that (at least until they brought some Pokemon back, showing some cuts can be temporary)

People can and have the ability change their minds js
Agreed. It's like people don't realize stuff happens during development, be it an executive decision, decisions inspired by fan demand, or a time strain factor, that alters whether stuff can be included or not. I'm sure before ORAS came out that Game Freak didn't include the battle frontier because it wasn't in Ruby and Sapphire, and only noticed fans wanted it when they kicked and screamed after the games came out. Same with the dex cuts that GF said they never wanted to do, but ultimately was the right decision in the long run, whether people accept it or not. I'm not getting any hopes up for battle frontier in BDSP though, just because the base games didn't have it so I'm honestly only expecting the battle tower unless ILCA and GF take fan opinions into consideration this time.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Game Freak doesn't have, and never will have, any reason to upgrade their games. They hit a goldmine with RBY, only that the goldmine will never run out of gold. I didn't buy SwSh nor am I planning to, but even with all the controversy over Dexit, it sold 20 million copies. There are many (and by many, I mean maaaaaaaaaaaaany) games that are exponentially better than any Pokemon game ever made and come out a lower price but have sales way less than that. Pokemon is already selling way too good for them to even consider change.
I think what Game Freak realized is that the upgrades in technology from 2D to 3D and from SD to HD, and possibly newer ones in the future (AR/VR? Certainly seems like that kind of tech is knocking on the door of mainstream gaming) requires more and more resources to the point where they couldn't even produce a game at all if they keep their development practices the way they are. They could continue to reap bucketloads of money, but only if they actually have a game to bring to market, if it gets that bad they will most certainly go out of business.

Simple point, the majority of people don't buy Pokemon with the intention to play a game with well crafted RPG mechanics, innovative gameplay and a deep storyline since it'll be **** if you go in looking for those. They play it for Pokémon, since it can't be found anywhere else. Same reason for why the sales are so high despite the mediocre game. There isn't any alternative to Pokémon. You can't get it anyway else. People love the idea of Pokemon. TPC just makes so much money of merchandise that great sales look like small numbers in comparison. Game Freak gets 32 % of that and is more than happy.

I fear the same will be the case for Legends Arceus. Game Freak is tackling something they have no experience in and open world is so overdone at this point. People will still buy it because Pokemon.

The problem with going open world is that there is no mercy if you screw it up. The 'Open World RPG' genre is bloated way too much. The classic Pokemon experience prevented such backlash as you couldn't get that anywhere. Your go open world RPG route and you just shot yourselves in the foot when you have a thousand other games to compare to.
Which is why they're rightfully getting called out for the games' lack of quality. And eventually that could affect the sales if the word of mouth gets so bad that it eventually reaches the casuals.

Comparing Pokemon to FF6 or pretty much any other open world game is comparing apples to oranges. You might as well compare it to World of Warcraft, or Call of Duty. That's sort of the point I'm trying to get at is there's a reason why Pokemon games are only ever compared to other Pokemon games. You seemingly acknowledge this... but then you also seemingly go ahead and contradict your own acknowledgement with the above quotes.

We can argue about whether or not Pokemon games are good or bad compared to other games until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is there really isn't an objective metric we can measure with, so the whole discussion is kind of pointless. It's mostly subjective.
No, that's the way capitalism works. Even if apples and oranges are different things, they're both fruits. So someone who wants to buy a fruit and they only have the money for one, they're going to have to choose between one of the two and they are in fact in competition with each other even if they're not in direct competition with each other. And if one of them is especially juicy while the other is rotten, which do you think people are going to choose? You can't just say "Oh well this is a different genre, so we can't compare them", no, you can't compare them directly with every single feature but we can compare the features they have in common. And in this case, we can compare Pokemon's world design and exploration with the world design and exploration of other adventure games such as BotW and Mario Odyssey. Hell, those two games aren't even the same genre either and they're often compared to each other (and just about everything on the Switch), BotW is an action-adventure game and Mario Odyssey is a platformer, but they're compared because they're both adventure games that highly value exploration and experimentation. And that's something Pokemon can (and really should) value as well given its core premise of going out into the world to catch and train Pokemon
 

Ignition

That damn smile
Tbh though I don't get why people think some interview from 2014 means it will always hold that the Battle Frontier will never appear. They said that they wouldn't want to axe any Pokemon from a game in 2011 iirc only for SWSH to do that (at least until they brought some Pokemon back, showing some cuts can be temporary)

People can and have the ability change their minds js
They also said the same thing about there being no plans to bring back Pokémon & DLC.
 

RileyXY1

Young Battle Trainer
They also said the same thing about there being no plans to bring back Pokémon & DLC.
Masuda said himself that in his own opinion, gamers now lack the necessary attention spans to enjoy it. And the Platinum BF is much less popular and beloved than Emerald's BF. I simply expect them to copy and paste the Battle Tower from Sword and Shield like how HGSS and ORAS copy pasted the Battle Frontier and Battle Maison from Platinum and XY respectively.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I feel like the Masuda quote gets misinterpreted a lot.

Masuda was basically saying there are various means of entertainment (not excluded to smartphones) that will occupy people's time. This is a true statement, we have more games that ever before, and for me personally, it's hard to 100% games and whatnot whereas some games in the past I would put in more time because there weren't as many options.

I think the Battle Frontier would have been cool for ORAS, but I don't like to mince words here.
 

Carrick2097

Member
I wonder if the music will be good like in previous remakes. If it will be in Switch style or less updated
I'm really here for the remastered music. I may have said before in this thread, but to hear the fully realised console-ified route themes of Sinnoh blaring crystal clear through my TV is a thought of sheer beauty. I'm sure someone on this thread much earlier on said that a guy who did work on various soundtracks such as BW and XY was working on BDSP? Can anyone confirm? Anyway, I was happy with the admittedly small snippets in the trailer so eagerly awaiting the real thing..
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
What returning pokemon do you think will learn new moves for the remakes?

One thing I'm hoping to see is that pokemon like Mothim, Beautifly, Dustox, &/or Carnivine will learn Strength Sap to make them more competitively viable
 

Ignition

That damn smile
What returning pokemon do you think will learn new moves for the remakes?

One thing I'm hoping to see is that pokemon like Mothim, Beautifly, Dustox, &/or Carnivine will learn Strength Sap to make them more competitively viable
Just a few off the top of my head:
Empoleon: Flip Turn, Life Dew
Bastiodon: Body Press
Gliscor: Dual Wingbeat
Also hoping they bring back the Platinum move tutors & at least Return
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
Man, I really hope Ilicia and Masuda understands how important Cynthia being a difficult Champion truly is.

I know they want things to be accessible, but Cynthia is wildly popular because she's hard to defeat. Even the anime displays this. If Cynthia is easy to beat in this game, BDSP will go down for me as the most disappointing Pokémon game of all time.

I'm no punk b****; I intend to go all out on Cynthia, but I expect her to go even harder.
 

KillerDraco

The Enforcer
Staff member
Super Mod
I would expect Cynthia to be about the same difficulty as she was back in 2006. However, you also have to contend with the fact that the people who fought her in 2006 are also most likely smarter and better players now than they were then. So even if Cynthia is 1:1 from Gen 4 games, she'll probably won't seem as hard as she was for people who were playing the game in 2006.

However, Cynthia's in kind of a unique position compared to the champions of the first 3 generations in that her Gen 4 team was pretty good at the time. Blue, Lance, and Steven (Wallace who?) were all let down by a lack of decent moves for many of their Pokemon, which remakes fixed by virtue of more moves being available. But Cynthia's mons came at the right time where Gen 4 introduced a lot of new moves in addition to the Physical/Special split allowing most Pokemon to get STAB with their dominant attacking stat. So her team never really had any glaring flaws like Barrier Dragonite that needed rectifying.
 

PsychoLogical

Well-Known Member
To be brutally honest, Cynthia wasn't exactly that hard. I actually had more trouble with BW2's Iris and SwSh's Mustard than Cynthia ever will.
 
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