Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl Speculation/Discussion Thread!

[janejane6178]

I am thirsty for some news...

 

[Auraninja]

I actually like the Kalos regions and would rank it highly, but that's neither here nor there.

As far as BDSP are concerned, to an extent (key words) I feel like these games are made to bring DP into the modern age. The older games are becoming harder to find and become more expensive. I also believe that the QoL in Sinnoh has not aged significantly well, even if you look at it compared to R/S. The games are so slow that you might as well bring out the popcorn while a level 100 Blissey gets OHKOed, and the HM usage is just all over the place. R/S had the annoying Rock Smash barrier and a lot of Surf water, but D/P had almost random places to use Rock Climb and Strength. I think the two problems I mentioned earlier will be fixed at least.

That being said, I still don't believe this is just DP with a different coat of paint. I still believe there will be a least a few noticeable differences outside of basic QoL and modern mechanisms like Fairy type.

 

[Aduro]

If only I knew gen 4 existed when I first started Pokémon. Sinnoh sounds a heck of a lot better than Kalos

Gen VI had less inconvenience that Gen IV. But it had less of a lot of other things as well.

Fewer puzzles and smaller dungeons. Weaker NPCs. Fewer gimmicky battle facilities and minigames. Not to mention almost no postgame, and very little character development for its rivals and villain.

But Sinnoh wasn't perfect. It was one of the last regions where you had to deal with zubats every five minutes, and slowly trudging through the snow and the marshes stopped being fun pretty early. The battles are intesting after a while, but until you're like 3 badges in, they can be repetitive.
Barry wasn't an especially interesting rival either, but I did like Rowan. His fierce temperament really makes him stand out compared to the other professors.

Also, a massive number of pokemon in the sinnoh dex were trade evolutions, which was a bit of a problem for me since there weren't always kids around who played it.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

Honestly I didn't mind having to trek through the snow I just didn't like how in the deeper parts you could get stuck

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Honestly I didn't mind having to trek through the snow I just didn't like how in the deeper parts you could get stuck

My biggest issue was actually the snowstorm in the overworld. I get that it was supposed to limit the player’s vision on screen but it moves way to fast and causes too much to be blurred which is an issue when you are trying to find the Rock Climb HM and also trying to find that patch of grass to encounter wild Pokémon and to evolve Eevee.

 

[Ultra Beast Lover]

My biggest issue was actually the snowstorm in the overworld. I get that it was supposed to limit the player’s vision on screen but it moves way to fast and causes too much to be blurred which is an issue when you are trying to find the Rock Climb HM and also trying to find that patch of grass to encounter wild Pokémon and to evolve Eevee.

Eh to each their own. I personally liked the snowstorm, it made me feel like I was a lost traveler that needed to quickly find some shelter. But I can see a person getting annoyed by it.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Eh to each their own. I personally liked the snowstorm, it made me feel like I was a lost traveler that needed to quickly find some shelter. But I can see a person getting annoyed by it.

It took me two hours during my first play through in Pt (my first Sinnoh game) just to find the patch of grass to try and get Snover, Sneasel, and Swinub.

 

[PsychoLogical]

It took me two hours during my first play through in Pt (my first Sinnoh game) just to find the patch of grass to try and get Snover, Sneasel, and Swinub.

wut.

 

[OshyHikari]

I actually like the Kalos regions and would rank it highly, but that's neither here nor there.

As far as BDSP are concerned, to an extent (key words) I feel like these games are made to bring DP into the modern age. The older games are becoming harder to find and become more expensive. I also believe that the QoL in Sinnoh has not aged significantly well, even if you look at it compared to R/S. The games are so slow that you might as well bring out the popcorn while a level 100 Blissey gets OHKOed, and the HM usage is just all over the place. R/S had the annoying Rock Smash barrier and a lot of Surf water, but D/P had almost random places to use Rock Climb and Strength. I think the two problems I mentioned earlier will be fixed at least.

That being said, I still don't believe this is just DP with a different coat of paint. I still believe there will be a least a few noticeable differences outside of basic QoL and modern mechanisms like Fairy type.

I am with you and sure there will be new and improved mechanics added, especially since the official BD/SP website mentioned "modern conveniences", which I'm sure is hinting that several issues in the originals will be remedied. Battles obviously won't be as slow since they're running on a more modern engine, so no more insanely slow HP bar drops . Fairy-type also will definitely exist like with every post-Gen 6 game.

I'm also hoping that something will be done about the HMs, like the ability to permanently push Strength boulders into holes like all post-Gen 5 games. X/Y did have places in the overworld to use Rock Smash, but the move itself was a TM and not a HM, meaning it was entirely optional.

 

[wellwellwells]

I actually LOVED xy.

Lol I do too. The thing that bothers me though is how unfinished it is with so many stuff planted and forgotten (like the power station in the desert area). We deserved to get Z.

 

[Sαpphire]

If it was just a copy-and-paste of the original then they legally could not call it a remake. They would have to call it a remaster. So there will be something new and some changes made. What they are is yet to be seen.

Do you have a source for this? I’ve been unable to find any laws or regulatory rules dictating content differences in order to earn the use of the word “remake.” I’ve found thinkpieces and Reddit threads about how the terms are used and how they should be used, but no standard or even consensus.

Further, even if that were the case, you don’t specify the nature of what changes you imagine would be required. Were there truly any requirements to earn the title of remake over remaster, I imagine that they’ve covered that based on the implications of the following paragraph on the official site:

These remakes include easy-to-understand, player-friendly conveniences of the modern Pokémon series, plus up-close-and-personal Pokémon battle scenes.

Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Pokémon Shining Pearl | Official Website | Pokémon

Relive a beloved adventure through the Sinnoh region, or embark on your very first Sinnoh quest with these new games on the Nintendo Switch system.

diamondpearl.pokemon.com

I think that at this point, being just three months away from release without almost any details beyond that which was released with the first trailer, it’s entirely reasonable for people to worry that there will be no additional content compared to the original Diamond and Pearl. This is in addition to the “faithfully reproduced” rhetoric that TPC/Nintendo and ILCA have used already, and disregarding the distinction between “remake” and “remaster” (since a clear distinction doesn’t actually exist, as far as I’m seeing).

I’m probably going to end up buying and playing one of these games. But ILCA and TPC/Nintendo would be doing an injustice to the legacy of the Sinnoh games and to the fans who grew up with them to exclude Platinum content like the Battle Frontier, the Distortion World, the Villa, and other such content that would be expected post-game if these remakes were analogous to something like HGSS. After the Battle Frontier debacle of ORAS, it would also be very disappointing, as a fan of this series for twenty years, for the same thing to happen again.

Regardless, I remain cautiously hopeful.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Do you have a source for this? I’ve been unable to find any laws or regulatory rules dictating content differences in order to earn the use of the word “remake.” I’ve found thinkpieces and Reddit threads about how the terms are used and how they should be used, but no standard or even consensus.

Further, even if that were the case, you don’t specify the nature of what changes you imagine would be required. Were there truly any requirements to earn the title of remake over remaster, I imagine that they’ve covered that based on the implications of the following paragraph on the official site:

Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Pokémon Shining Pearl | Official Website | Pokémon

Relive a beloved adventure through the Sinnoh region, or embark on your very first Sinnoh quest with these new games on the Nintendo Switch system.

diamondpearl.pokemon.com

I think that at this point, being just three months away from release without almost any details beyond that which was released with the first trailer, it’s entirely reasonable for people to worry that there will be no additional content compared to the original Diamond and Pearl. This is in addition to the “faithfully reproduced” rhetoric that TPC/Nintendo and ILCA have used already, and disregarding the distinction between “remake” and “remaster” (since a clear distinction doesn’t actually exist, as far as I’m seeing).

I’m probably going to end up buying and playing one of these games. But ILCA and TPC/Nintendo would be doing an injustice to the legacy of the Sinnoh games and to the fans who grew up with them to exclude Platinum content like the Battle Frontier, the Distortion World, the Villa, and other such content that would be expected post-game if these remakes were analogous to something like HGSS. After the Battle Frontier debacle of ORAS, it would also be very disappointing, as a fan of this series for twenty years, for the same thing to happen again.

Regardless, I remain cautiously hopeful.

That's the thing, there aren't any rules on what a "remake" or a "remaster" are, it's just based on what past remakes/remasters have done. Remasters tend to be more copy/paste jobs, the games, it's the same game with a few graphical touchups to make it more HD, whereas remakes tend to overhaul the artstyle and maybe add some new features. But even then, most remakes don't really go as far as Pokemon remakes, even the more disappointing ones like ORAS and LGPE. They usually just add one or two new features and that's it, the game is otherwise the same. They don't add a ton of new sidequests and features on the scale of things like the Pokemon following, the Pokeathlon, Dexnav, Soaring, or anything like that, Pokemon fans have actually been quite spoiled in that regard (although I do think Pokemon remakes need to go even further because things like the Pokemon selection and region design are really dated, but again, most remakes don't actually go that far), the only other remakes I've seen that really go that far are the Metroid remakes and Super Mario 64 DS. Sadly though, it seems like BDSP may be regressing to the mean and falling more in line with the kind of remake the rest of the industry is used to. I would still call it a "remake" simply because the chibi artstyle is much more than an HD touchup, it uses actual 3D models instead of using the sprites of the original but in higher resolution, but it's still feeling more like a remaster (and I feel that the typical industry remake is more along the lines of a remaster as well).

 

[Auraninja]

I'm not sure why people think a slow news cycle means a trouble in development.

To reiterate.

-The news cycle has been slower after US/UM.
-This isn't the start of a new generation.

I get that some may not have seen enough to really know whether they will end up liking the product, but to think there's a problem with the games because there's a slow news cycle is not really warranted.

 

[janejane6178]

I'm not sure why people think a slow news cycle means a trouble in development.

To reiterate.

-The news cycle has been slower after US/UM.
-This isn't the start of a new generation.

I get that some may not have seen enough to really know whether they will end up liking the product, but to think there's a problem with the games because there's a slow news cycle is not really warranted.

Slow cycle? Zero news for six months after announcement is more correct.

 

[Autobot N]

Slow cycle? Zero news for six months after announcement is more correct.

That isn't exactly uncommon for games. Horizon Forbidden West went almost a year from its reveal to its next news drop. Fire Emblem Three Houses had a year and a half between the announcement (which revealed nothing other than "this game exists") and the gameplay reveal.

Point is, Pokemon is an outlier in this regard, so it probably isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

 

[janejane6178]

That isn't exactly uncommon for games. Horizon Forbidden West went almost a year from its reveal to its next news drop. Fire Emblem Three Houses had a year and a half between the announcement (which revealed nothing other than "this game exists") and the gameplay reveal.

Point is, Pokemon is an outlier in this regard, so it probably isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

We are not talking about other games. We are talking about Pokemon games.
And I dont remember having a Pokemon game with zero news until now, which "unintentionally" is the first main game that GF isnt making...

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I'm not sure why people think a slow news cycle means a trouble in development.

To reiterate.

-The news cycle has been slower after US/UM.
-This isn't the start of a new generation.

I get that some may not have seen enough to really know whether they will end up liking the product, but to think there's a problem with the games because there's a slow news cycle is not really warranted.

Who's saying there's a trouble in development? If the games have less content, it's more likely by design, they seem to be cutting content to save costs.

And IDK where you're getting that the news cycle was "slower" after USUM. Every game since XY has revealed further details on the game within 4 months of the initial reveal, we're at 5 1/2 months now. For as long as I've been following Pokemon news (since Platinum), this is an absolutely unprecedented news drought, so suspicions about a lack of content are certainly justified.

EDIT: Also, to give a neat little visual, a user named NintyRift on Reddit made a chart comparing the news cycles of past games to BDSP and LA (I've updated the calculations for the current date)

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/PokeLeaks/comments/oklagj

This is really kind of damning as far as the news cycle goes. It's by far the longest drought out of any game in the last 8 years, and it's 2 days away from the shortest gap in between the second trailer and the release. Furthermore, if you were to order these games by Days Until Release from the Next Trailer? Some of the more samey-feeling games would be at the bottom (it's not exact because ORAS was still pretty high up there, but in general, that seems to be about right). So yeah, lots to be concerned about here.

 

[Sαpphire]

I'm not sure why people think a slow news cycle means a trouble in development.

To reiterate.

-The news cycle has been slower after US/UM.
-This isn't the start of a new generation.

I get that some may not have seen enough to really know whether they will end up liking the product, but to think there's a problem with the games because there's a slow news cycle is not really warranted.

It’s not that the lack of news implies trouble, as in problems getting the finished product out the door. It’s that it implies a lack of anything to show, as in games without notable changes from the original Diamond and Pearl. We still don’t even know what “modern conveniences,” as ILCA and TPC put it, these games have that DP didn’t.

That isn't exactly uncommon for games. Horizon Forbidden West went almost a year from its reveal to its next news drop. Fire Emblem Three Houses had a year and a half between the announcement (which revealed nothing other than "this game exists") and the gameplay reveal.

Point is, Pokemon is an outlier in this regard, so it probably isn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

It would be an extreme understatement to say that most Pokémon games are not comparable to either of those games in terms of scope or length (expected, in HFW’s case, since it’s not out). This is especially true of these remakes, for which the Pokémon models, the vast majority of the story content, the region layout, the characters and their teams, most or all of the regional Pokédex, most of the likely encounter tables, and most or all of the items already existed before BDSP even began development. The graphics are also clearly not to the caliber of one of those games - arguably both, counting the Monastery segments and zoomed-in battle mode for Three Houses. Those games took longer for news to come out because there was so much work to be done; this is just not true of BDSP.

What Pokémon games are comparable to, though, are other Pokémon games, and @Bolt the Cat was very much right to point out that this lack of information half a year in is unprecedented in Pokémon history - there are decades of news on SPP to prove this. The amount of work that has to go into these games is less than any since ORAS - maybe even quite a bit less given the simplistic graphical nature, given the fact that they’re likely still using the same models from back then, and depending on whether anything inspired by Platinum made it in like the Delta Episode made it to ORAS. Despite this, we have little information or footage. If there is anything beyond the original two games to be shown, it is entirely beyond me why we wouldn’t have already seen it. I would expect that, should a Delta Episode analogue or Battle Frontier exist in these games, we would have seen such news already. Based on precedent I guess I’d expect to hear, well, literally anything more already, even without new content.

All in all, it seems possible that there will be less additional content in these games than in any other set of remakes to date. Whether you think that it will stay that way and whether that lack of new content matters to you is a personal question.

 

[Pokemon Power]

You know, if it weren't for the pandemic, I'd be willing to bet that fans would be storming The Pokemon Company headquarters demanding that they release new info.

 

[TheLink]

Maybe I’m an optimist but I’m actually kind of okay with this? Now I do wish they’d shown *something* by now, but I’m the type that prefers less info so that there are still surprises in store when actually getting the games.

‘Course my optimism could be misplaced and I don’t blame folks for wanting news, but I’m also not gonna go in the other direction and be super pessimistic about the situation.