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Burn with Passion! Get Filled with Intensity! A Full Battle!!! (1085)

pancakemonster

Alola...home...
I know this is pretty common but why is everyone acting like any pokemon that loses a battle without getting a win first is a jobber? Like it's a shame Lycanroc couldn't get a win, but it did tangible damage to Incineroar and convinced Kukui to withdraw it, plus damaged Braviary. If it were jobbing it would have gone down to Incineroar without even hitting it once. If anything it did the exact opposite because it damaging Incineroar proves it's not so strong that it's infallible.
 

Sulfurian

Well-Known Member
I honestly dipped after lycanroc fell to stupid braviary. That's like if infernape or charizard fainted to a grass type. Screw you writers.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
I know this is pretty common but why is everyone acting like any pokemon that loses a battle without getting a win first is a jobber? Like it's a shame Lycanroc couldn't get a win, but it did tangible damage to Incineroar and convinced Kukui to withdraw it, plus damaged Braviary. If it were jobbing it would have gone down to Incineroar without even hitting it once. If anything it did the exact opposite because it damaging Incineroar proves it's not so strong that it's infallible.

Jobber is being misused here. The correct work is "choker", and chokers fit the following categories:

-losing despite a significant perceived advantage
-losing and looking pathetic while doing it
-losing without any impact at all

Lycanroc choked because he was at full health, but lost despite possessing an offensive, defensive type advantage. This is also despite being ahead in the battle after using Counter.
Rowlet choked because he has a x4 resistance to Grass-type moves, along with a powerful super-effective attack against Grass.

Kukui won two battles despite sending in a Pokemon with a type disadvantage. Thus, it appears like he has the momentum in the battle, even though he and Ash have the same number of Pokemon.
 

lolipiece

Pictured: what browsing Serebii does to a person
Staff member
Moderator
This time, I'll pass on matchup comments simply because there's so many. Next ep for sure, though. Cat deserves it.

You know, I like joking that Kukui is Ash's dad (and by extension, Burnet is Ash's new mom), but this episode really hammers that in by showing how similar they are in personality. We saw tidbits of this back when Kukui was a kid, but it honestly seems like he's an adult version of Ash. Obviously more mature, but a Pokemon battle-loving kid at heart.

I never really thought about until now, but I have to wonder. Was Ash and Kukui's relationship based on the games? Lillie mentioned that Burnet was "like a real mother to her" at one point, and Ash is basically taking her role as the resident freeloader. If so, I'm really glad at how they expanded their bond here. In the games, it's a classic case of "tell, but don't show" (a common problem in recent Pokemon games) since Burnet stops being relevant after you complete Akala, but here she's with Ash and Kukui all the time.

I honestly dipped after lycanroc fell to stupid braviary. That's like if infernape or charizard fainted to a grass type. Screw you writers.

Fainted by a Flying-type using a super effective Fighting-type move.

After surviving an 800 meter fall.

Also obligatory Ash-Greninja Blast Burn comment.
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
This time, I'll pass on matchup comments simply because there's so many. Next ep for sure, though. Cat deserves it.

You know, I like joking that Kukui is Ash's dad (and by extension, Burnet is Ash's new mom), but this episode really hammers that in by showing how similar they are in personality. We saw tidbits of this back when Kukui was a kid, but it honestly seems like he's an adult version of Ash. Obviously more mature, but a Pokemon battle-loving kid at heart.

I never really thought about until now, but I have to wonder. Was Ash and Kukui's relationship based on the games? Lillie mentioned that Burnet was "like a real mother to her" at one point, and Ash is basically taking her role as the resident freeloader. If so, I'm really glad at how they expanded their bond here. In the games, it's a classic case of "tell, but don't show" (a common problem in recent Pokemon games) since Burnet stops being relevant after you complete Akala, but here she's with Ash and Kukui all the time.



Fainted by a Flying-type using a super effective Fighting-type move.

After surviving an 800 meter fall.

Also obligatory Ash-Greninja Blast Burn comment.
Here's a fact: 800 meters converts to just a little less than half a mile. If I fell half a mile, at best, I'll break a lot of bones in my body; at worst, I'll die. It would depend on how I land. So I find it amazing that Lycanroc was able to keep fighting at all because of how hard he hit the ground. Even if Lycanroc can resist flying type moves, he would still be heavily damaged from the impact of hitting the ground.
 

Sulfurian

Well-Known Member
Fainted by a Flying-type using a super effective Fighting-type move.

After surviving an 800 meter fall.

Also obligatory Ash-Greninja Blast Burn comment.

At least mega charizard was shown fighting rayquaza and groudon before, so I can see why greninja lost. But lycanroc won him the league and has been tanky most of this region (ignore his first fight against krookodile because that was just character development over actual battle skill) but he lost to a bird.

Just did lycanroc dirty to show the other team members who besides torracat aren't really that great pokemon.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
No, Kukui's anime treatment is purely from the mind of Aya Matsui. Lillie's relationship with Kukui in the games is under-developed compared to with Burnett. The family aspect was expanded on in the anime for the trial captains.

When the time comes to write an obituary for SM I think a comparison would be in order between the two treatments.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Where the bloody heck did the animation budget go

Why does the long-awaited battle between father and son look like something out of Advanced Generation instead of something that had any amount of effort put into it

Did they just give up completely on SM and have focused on PM instead?


Melmetal using DiB to break whirlpool before it even started
Actually, Whirlpool was completely ineffective because Melmetal was too heavy to lift

Empoleon was literally useless against it and Kukui really should've recalled it and sent out Incineroar so he wouldn't needlessly lose a team member

I laughed so hard when Melmetal sent Empoleon crashing into Kukui against the wall. Best moment of the episode.
Can't believe Ash almost killed a region's professor
Good thing he's more durable than Ash

I honestly dipped after lycanroc fell to stupid braviary. That's like if infernape or charizard fainted to a grass type. Screw you writers.
Lycanroc had its victory against Gladion's Lycanroc - it was doomed to immediately lose because it no longer has a reason to battle


Meanwhile Rowlet continues to warp reality and make everyone think it's good at fighting despite none of its opponents ever struggling during its battles, with both Braviary and Venusaur immediately slapping Rowlet aside when they got tired of playing
 
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diakyu

Well-Known Member
Where the bloody heck did the animation budget go

Why does the long-awaited battle between father and son look like something out of Advanced Generation instead of something that had any amount of effort put into it

Did they just give up completely on SM and have focused on PM instead?
Obviously to the next two episodes. It's clear some pokemon get more priority to, compare any scene with Braviary with any scene involving inceniroar. Braviary definitely got it bad when it came to animation this episode, I felt everything was fine to pretty good.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
At least mega charizard was shown fighting rayquaza and groudon before, so I can see why greninja lost. But lycanroc won him the league and has been tanky most of this region (ignore his first fight against krookodile because that was just character development over actual battle skill) but he lost to a bird.

Just did lycanroc dirty to show the other team members who besides torracat aren't really that great pokemon.

I guess people just overrate lycannroc, its feat is not cmparable with that of ash's other aces, it best feat was in the finals against midnight lycannroc who was dominating it for most of the match and wa shown as more stronger and experienced pokemon but lost because of some quick thinking. By next week going by this match i would say torracat coul be ash's most impressive pokemon in alola over lycannroc.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I think many wanted rowlet to job especially after one of the most BS legue win it got over decidueye and its sleeping during that match.



I dont think anyone has claimed that this match has no strtegies i just responded to that dope who said that strategies were missing since sinnoh league which is stupid. I counted him some of them used later on. This so far is a good match probably could end up as one of the best of SM considering the low quality of matches we mostly got in this series. Problem with SMfanbys is they have started to think that this is his best version ever and SM is the best series when it is nowhere near to the top series.

Okay I got you. And tbh that last line is unneeded. It's your opinion this series is not the top series. For others it could very well be considering how much fun and vibrant it is.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Obviously to the next two episodes. It's clear some pokemon get more priority to, compare any scene with Braviary with any scene involving inceniroar. Braviary definitely got it bad when it came to animation this episode, I felt everything was fine to pretty good.
It's just a little funny that a series that initially prided itself on dynamic full of life animation ends up looking pretty standard and like the previous sagas by end, for the climax of all things
 

Kaye Cruiser

Well-Known Member
It's just a little funny that a series that initially prided itself on dynamic full of life animation ends up looking pretty standard and like the previous sagas by end, for the climax of all things
To be fair, that was never actually the case. The series itself never specifically stated or advertisd to pride itself on the animation change and it was never even brought up in interviews. Wannabe animation experts on the internet just decided that that's what it was doing as their ultimate "It's not bad and you're not allowed to say or think it's bad EVER!" shutdown excuse and people just kinda ran with it despite having no official word or proof to back it up and only very short moments to actually prove it outside of the battle against Brock and Misty until now.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
This was a lot of fun, one of the better episodes. I think it lacked the true depth of strategy of the top-tier battles but it has a nice, fun atmosphere while still feeling like a big deal at the same time.

This battle is probably already in the all-time top 10, and we'll see how high it gets with the conclusion. Certainly the best of SM so far, though nothing with this animation, and this version of Ash, and this comparative dearth of inventive strategies could top Ash/Sawyer or Ash/Paul.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
having no official word or proof to back it up and only very short moments to actually prove it outside of the battle against Brock and Misty until now.

Literally the first YouTube hit is a video from The Canipa Effect which shows exactly how the animation is different, and it does not pull just from the Brock/Misty episode. The fact that you can cherry pick well-animated scenes from ordinary SM episodes but have to pull from specific Gym Leader or Kalos League battles to make a debate should illustrate that SM is an undisputed better-looking series than XY is.

In the past, people have complained about the 3D camera effect, but that animation error during the Lana v. Guzma battle revealed the camera is still there for background effects, layering drawn textures over a 3D environment.
 
Literally the first YouTube hit is a video from The Canipa Effect which shows exactly how the animation is different, and it does not pull just from the Brock/Misty episode. The fact that you can cherry pick well-animated scenes from ordinary SM episodes but have to pull from specific Gym Leader or Kalos League battles to make a debate should illustrate that SM is an undisputed better-looking series than XY is.

In the past, people have complained about the 3D camera effect, but that animation error during the Lana v. Guzma battle revealed the camera is still there for background effects, layering drawn textures over a 3D environment.

That's actually incorrect. It's a difference in values. SM is undisputed better-looking in ordinary SM episodes, but the animation during battles is incredibly lackluster in SM. Canipa's video is cherrpicking when using the Ash v Misty battle because most of SM's battles are dogshit
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
OK but can we talk about Naganadel smiling like I don’t think I’ve seen an Ultra Beast like that unsettle me. And the Pokemon anime hardly does that.

image0.png


Is this what death looks like?
Oh, that shot was undeniably creepy, but at the same time I couldn’t help but smile during this scene since it shows that Naganadel still has had Poipole’s playful personality! One thing Sun & Mohn does 1000 times better than most seasons is giving bigger & more powerful Pokémon more room to actually emote and show their characteristics rather than turning them into blank powerhouses, and Naganadel is no exception to this so I’ll forgive the few seconds of nightmare fuel
 
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