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Burn with Passion! Get Filled with Intensity! A Full Battle!!! (1085)

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Oh, that shot was undeniably creepy, but at the same time I couldn’t help but smile during this scene since it shows that Naganadel still has had Poipole’s playful personality! One thing Sun & Mohn does 1000 times better than most seasons is giving bigger & more powerful Pokémon more room to actually emote and show their characteristics rather than turning them into blank powerhouses, and Naganadel is no exception to this so I’ll forgive the few seconds of nightmare fuel

Same, I love seeing such a unconventional example of a Pokemon with an endearing personality.

Generally I find myself really invested in this match, I love how character driven it is. It also kinda makes me disappointed most of Kukui's Pokemon didn't get actual screen time before now, especially Braviary who only got a handful fleeting character scenes beforehand.

Wasn't expecting Lycanroc to end up the jobber of this match, I'm all for letting the other guys get a moment (Torracat needs some MVP time to make up for not being in any of the Grand Trials) but it is a shame Lycanroc only got in one win the whole league (even if it was THE win). I get the feeling the writers knew this, hence having the cast emphasise Rowlet owed his win to Lycanroc leaving an achilies heel ready for him. We get it guys, you had to do it.

Rowlet once again surprises and gets in a more standard KO, I truthfully like Rowlet dumbfounding his opponent with his comedic battle style, has a kind of Kung Fu Panda-ish charm to it. He also puts in a clever move against Venosaur, even if it ultimately doesn't help get any damage.

Torracat gets the KO, and let's be fair, he deserves one by now.

Strange Pikachu got in even less than Lycanroc, getting trounced by Empoleon for the large part, though I suppose they are saving him for the final round.

Melmetal gets a win against Empoleon. It's realisation that it's screwed against this lug is priceless. Melmetal goes toe to toe with Incineroar for a while, but expectedly type advantage and experience wins. Surprised they still haven't gone with the in-game 'melting' faint animation again.

Naganadel is in, I admit to loving that pause as it basks around playfully within the audience. Really feels like an alien welcomed into a new world. But Ash has barely any experience with this guy (unless they stick in a training flashback next week, he knew it had X Scissor somehow), wonder how this will go?

Ash and Kukui's bonding is sweet and the crowd scenes didn't bug me this time round, as mentioned the reactions were fun and vibrant instead of just generic exposition or token quotes. I love how damn invested even the Pokemon are here. Anyone notice however that somehow Snowy and Shaymin had got back to their trainers at some point? (doesn't seem to be animation mistake either, they're gone in the Pokemon group scenes.)
 
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mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
That's actually incorrect. It's a difference in values. SM is undisputed better-looking in ordinary SM episodes, but the animation during battles is incredibly lackluster in SM. Canipa's video is cherrpicking when using the Ash v Misty battle because most of SM's battles are dogshit
Then again, the video is from 2017, and by then most SM battles were at least well animated (the only exception being the Lurantis fight), it's kinda weird how the quality of battle animation has gone down compared to how they began (well, the league has been on and off, but most fights between Torracat vs Incineroar and the league weren't that well animated)
 

UnovaMaster

Well-Known Member
Wow, Hold your nachos there*. I didn't even watched DP and I have to disagree with you. The tension and the strategies are not that high...yet. Let's wait and see how this battle ends first.


*Hold your horses

I will not hold my nachos, I like Torracat more than Infernape and nobody can honestly say they remember anything about the Ash vs Paul battle outside of the final slash with Electivire
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
I will not hold my nachos, I like Torracat more than Infernape and nobody can honestly say they remember anything about the Ash vs Paul battle outside of the final slash with Electivire

And this is why i call people overrating SM to an extent, just because you can not see anything besides infernape vs electivire doesn't mean nobody can remember, everybody remembers drapion and toxic spikes and gliscor vs drapion and many small battles, this match is slow but calling it better than ash vs paul is the biggest joke ever. This match is nowhee near the calibre of paul's, sawyer's, alain's or katie match. Too slow match and way too less action, as for torracat vs infernape torracat cn never be compared with infernape it may be screenhogger but it was still one of the best developed pokemon so far in the entire series.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
And this is why i call people overrating SM to an extent, just because you can not see anything besides infernape vs electivire doesn't mean nobody can remember, everybody remembers drapion and toxic spikes and gliscor vs drapion and many small battles, this match is slow but calling it better than ash vs paul is the biggest joke ever. This match is nowhee near the calibre of paul's, sawyer's, alain's or katie match. Too slow match and way too less action, as for torracat vs infernape torracat cn never be compared with infernape it may be screenhogger but it was still one of the best developed pokemon so far in the entire series.
Except I don't remember anything other than that he had a Drapion and a Froslass. I couldn't name his other Pokemon if I tried. And, completely unlike the Paul match, this match is fun and exciting to watch. There's no excitement to be had in the Paul match, only a sense of foreboding dread that the writers will continue to refuse having their pet actually lose.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Except I don't remember anything other than that he had a Drapion and a Froslass. I couldn't name his other Pokemon if I tried. And, completely unlike the Paul match, this match is fun and exciting to watch. There's no excitement to be had in the Paul match, only a sense of foreboding dread that the writers will continue to refuse having their pet actually lose.

Really there was no excitement between ash and paul match, just because you dont like him doesn't mean that math was bad, that match had more going than this match except for torracat vs incineroar rivalry, that match was setup from the start of the series and was hyped throughout the whole series with the contrasting styles of the two trainers and that match was supposed to be serious not comedy like this one , compared to that one this match was only confirmed in last moments and they rushed to gave kukui 3-4 pokemon without even showing them once just for sake of making it full battle, i wouldn't even put this match anywhere near top 5 matches of the series.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Except I don't remember anything other than that he had a Drapion and a Froslass. I couldn't name his other Pokemon if I tried. And, completely unlike the Paul match, this match is fun and exciting to watch. There's no excitement to be had in the Paul match, only a sense of foreboding dread that the writers will continue to refuse having their pet actually lose.

The **** are you talking about
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
The notion that the only thing in Ash/Paul people remember is Infernape/Electivire is bizarre to the point of being borderline insulting. Nobody's so stupid as to fall for that attempt at gaslighting. The reality is that battle utilized a ton of strategies from throughout the DP saga, such as Ice Aqua Jet, Gliscor using Giga Impact and then escaping out of range for the recharge turn as McCann's Scizor did, and the Counter-Shield (which Paul stole, adding another layer to it). There's also stuff like Gliscor returning at all and being the one to KO the Drapion. Also a ton of status, Snow Cloak, and Toxic Spikes. Strategically it's just clearly a cut above this battle, and that's absolutely fine - Ash/Paul had like 3+ years of rivalry and previous strategies to build from. It makes sense that they came up with new strategies to try and beat each other.
 

FlygontheRavager

#1 Pokémon Anime Fan!
The notion that the only thing in Ash/Paul people remember is Infernape/Electivire is bizarre to the point of being borderline insulting. Nobody's so stupid as to fall for that attempt at gaslighting. The reality is that battle utilized a ton of strategies from throughout the DP saga, such as Ice Aqua Jet, Gliscor using Giga Impact and then escaping out of range for the recharge turn as McCann's Scizor did, and the Counter-Shield (which Paul stole, adding another layer to it). There's also stuff like Gliscor returning at all and being the one to KO the Drapion. Also a ton of status, Snow Cloak, and Toxic Spikes. Strategically it's just clearly a cut above this battle, and that's absolutely fine - Ash/Paul had like 3+ years of rivalry and previous strategies to build from. It makes sense that they came up with new strategies to try and beat each other.

Exactly! Infernape vs Electivire may have been the highlight, but the battle had many other cool parts to it!

And to add on another example, Ash vs Sawyer's highlight was the battle between Greninja and Sceptile, but my personal favorite part was Pikachu vs Aegislash.
 

Doppelgänger

Superancient Member
I was just going to chime in that during the segment when Ash releases Naganadel, it's portrayed like Ash is the villain. Showing off a rare ball, having reaction shots galore from the viewers, releasing a rare Pokemon and having the Xerneas/Yveltal legendary battle music play, is something more suited to Tobias than Ash.

Then again, the video is from 2017, and by then most SM battles were at least well animated (the only exception being the Lurantis fight), it's kinda weird how the quality of battle animation has gone down compared to how they began (well, the league has been on and off, but most fights between Torracat vs Incineroar and the league weren't that well animated)

I don't find this surprising, to be honest - what we were seeing early on was rather unsustainable. I know there were fewer battles, but episodes like SM001 had Roger Rabbit-lite animation, even when it wasn't necessary. It was inevitable that would get scaled back for less important episodes, and new teams would be brought in to shadow or train.

My guess is that there isn't much consideration for who gets what task, it's done on a rotation schedule. That's how episodes like the Halloween one (SM094) look amazing, but the Kartana one (SM124) has some of the worst animation of the series.
 

Alolan Champion

Well-Known Member
That's actually incorrect. It's a difference in values. SM is undisputed better-looking in ordinary SM episodes, but the animation during battles is incredibly lackluster in SM. Canipa's video is cherrpicking when using the Ash v Misty battle because most of SM's battles are dogshit
Bruh I can think of 20 battles in SM that had great animation while XY had about 8. Think before you post because you’re obviously not doing so
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Bruh I can think of 20 battles in SM that had great animation while XY had about 8. Think before you post because you’re obviously not doing so
While it's kinda subjective (and it's been a while since I've watched a lot of XY, so I'm probably missing some fights), I'll try to list the ones I think had great animation in XY and SM (not counting specials):
XY:
Ash vs Clemont 1
Ash vs Viola 2 (can't remember the first one, sorry)
Ash vs TRio (on the Furfrou episode)
Viola vs Grant
Ash vs Grant
Korrina vs that Mawile-using person
Ash vs Hawlucha
Ash vs Tierno
Ash/Clemont/Serena vs Tierno/Trevor/Shauna
Ash vs Korrina (gym)
Serena vs Pancham
Ash vs Ramos
Serena vs Aria
Ash vs Clemont (gym)
Ash vs Moltres
Ash and Tierno vs Serena and Shauna
Ash vs Olympia
Ash and Sanpei vs Bisharp-using person
Sanpei's brother vs Weavile-using person (I think he was called Kagetomo?)
Terminus cave battle vs Flare Scientists
Ash vs Sawyer 3
Ash vs Clemont 3
Ash vs Alain 1
Alain vs Zygarde
Ash vs Zapdos
Ash vs Alain 2
Ash vs Diantha 2
Ash vs Sawyer 4 (well, only Greninja vs Sceptile, but still)
Ash vs Wulfric 1
Ash vs Wulfric 2
Ash vs Tomo
Sawyer vs Tierno
Ash vs Sawyer 5
Ash vs Alain 3
Everyone vs Megalith
Ash vs Clemont 4

SM:
Ash and Kiawe vs Skull grunts
Ash vs Tapu Koko 1
Ash vs Mimikyu
Ash vs Gumshoos/Yungoose/Totem Gumshoos
Ash vs Hala
Rockruff vs Magmar
Ash vs Tapu Koko 2
Ash vs Litten
Ash vs Gladion 1
Lana vs Totem Wishiwashi
Kiawe vs Marowak 1
Ash vs Kiawe 1
Kiawe vs Marowak 2
Ash vs Olivia (mostly the second half)
Lana/Mallow vs Misty
Sophocles/Lillie vs Brock
Kiawe vs Brock
Ash vs Misty
Ash vs Gladion 2
Gladion vs Faba
Gladion and Lillie vs Totem Kommo-o/Jangmo-o horde/Hakamo-o horde
Ash vs Buzzwole
Ash vs Kiawe 2
Ash vs Masked Royal 2
Team Rocket vs Totem Gengar
Ash vs Jessie (Trial)
U Guardians vs Xurkitree/Blacephalon
Ash vs Hau 1
Ash vs Hau 2
Ash vs Dia 2
Ash vs Dia 3
Ash vs Kiawe 3
Kiawe vs Tapu Lele
Bewear vs Pheromosa
Ash and Lana vs Jobber Palpitoad Brigade
Ash vs Young Kukui
Ash vs Faba
Guzma vs Ilima
Hau vs Samson Oak
Lana vs Mallow
Sophocles vs Mina
Kiawe vs Acerola
Lillie vs Gladion
Kiawe vs Gladion
Ash vs Guzma 2
Ash vs Gladion 4
 
Bruh I can think of 20 battles in SM that had great animation while XY had about 8. Think before you post because you’re obviously not doing so

You want to post them? I would love to see what great, consistently good animation in battle looks like to you

And even if there were 20 battles in which SM "supposedly" had great animation, and XY only had 8, even though that's hilariously flippant, the quality of those battles also matters.
 

hottom3rd

Well-Known Member
I legitimately have enjoyed the hell out of Sun and Moon. I am getting sad that it will eventually end.. I thought after XY/XYZ there was nothing Pokemon could do to entertain me.. This end of league battle has been exciting. It's good to see our boy Satoshi getting some clear recognition from the audience for his crazy ass team, even better is the great dynamic between the surfer professor and him.

Ash still has some XY genius floating around in these battles.. NYHEAT is the GOAT imo so far.. Can't wait to see who Pika battles (obvious choice would be Tapu). At this point I kinda wanna see our fire tiger not have to evolve to win, I mean he is a beast.

Loving poison ultra. We have been spoiled to have Ash own two distinct kinds of pokemon he NEVER owned and battle with before.

------

This episode was great. Well-paced, exciting, and good crowd and "gang" reactions that did NOT take away from the battle or episode.

9.99 / 10
 

Rock Captain 99

Following the dreams!!
Really there was no excitement between ash and paul match, just because you dont like him doesn't mean that math was bad, that match had more going than this match except for torracat vs incineroar rivalry, that match was setup from the start of the series and was hyped throughout the whole series with the contrasting styles of the two trainers and that match was supposed to be serious not comedy like this one , compared to that one this match was only confirmed in last moments and they rushed to gave kukui 3-4 pokemon without even showing them once just for sake of making it full battle, i wouldn't even put this match anywhere near top 5 matches of the series.
Nothing new. They did the same with Alain, yet it was considered as one of the best battles. Not denying it isn't, but there is nothing wrong with revealing pokemon at last moment!
 

AuraChannelerChris

Easygoing Luxray.
Sunny D-roc got bodied really hard, despite being at an advantage.

Rowlet got lucky Sunny D-roc had done some damage to take down Braviary, but figures Seed Bomb is treated as a Rock-type move instead of a Grass-type move due to that annoying Everstone.

Kukui: My Venasaur is pretty cool!
Ash: Yeah! I never saw it before!
Kukui: Of course you haven't! I haven't taken it out of its ball since you came to live in my house, but just LOOK at that flower!
Venasaur: *grunts annoyed*

I still think Feather Dance is being used so strangely, though. There is neither a dance or feathers. It looks like some sort of unique Substitute. All things considered, Rowlet got taken down REALLY easy with a few Vine Whips.

It's kind of odd that Empoleon could've used other attacks to deal with Melmetal, so it unfortunately got screwed and made into comic relief (like Rowlet toying with Braviary).

Kukui: Check out my Empoleon!
Ash: Wow! I've never seen that one before!
Kukui: Of course you haven't! It's been busy working real hard for my random sea current research I never mentioned to my class!
Empoleon: I want to make friends with his students... I mean, caw caw caw. *rolls eyes*

I can't comment much on the cats switching out. They came out for about a minute to get rid of enemies making a lot of trouble for each side.

Oh, NOW people think Nagadel is such a huge deal?! Where was this surprise when Ash literally showed him to the others the night prior? Were they THAT shocked about Kukui's secret identity that warranting some attention to the alien vampire was too much?

Kukui: Check out my SWEET *** LUCARIO (not Gladion's) you've seen just yesterday but NOT before!
Ash: Wow, so cool! And I've been living under your roof for a looooooong time and... *sighs* Really. I really can't go a saga without one trying to stop me, huh.
Kukui: Huh?
Lucario: Shut up. I have to get my obligatory regional paycheck. I mean, GROWL!

I both like and dislike Kukui getting excited for dealing with unprecedented situations by Ash's new toys...simply because the guy never properly had a chance to deal with a Melmetal or Nagadel before. Ash was just getting new weapons out of nowhere during his league run, so it's natural Kukui got keet all over him. That sort of feels a bit insulting to Ash's other Pokemon.

...At least Ash avoided getting disqualified for injuring a professor/trainer by a near-200 pound steel penguin with blades all over its body falling at high speed on him. How can anyone survive that?

Eh. Decent episode overall.
 
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