Burn with Passion, Litten! Down with Incineroar!! (1006)

[345ash-greninja]

No matter how you slice it, it means the Masked Royal isn't going to be some one-off thing used to make an episode. We're more than likely now to see Ash watch Battle Royal matches and maybe even see Masked Royal in person again. And this sets up training for their next battle.

Yeah maybe I could see this leading to Kukui ultimately being revealed as the Masked Royal. But while Masked Royal/Incineroar could be used as tools by the writers to develop Torracat more and possibly evolve into Incineroar, there is no way they can beat that Incineroar no matter how much they improve, that thing is just broken. It's only a matter of how much of a better fight Ash and Torracat would be able to put up next time.

 

[satopi]

I'm pretty sure that was Flame Charge, not Meteor Charge. The move in Japanese is Nitro Charge, and I'm positive that's what Ash was saying when it commanded Torracat to use that move.

My mistake! I'm so used to how Chimchar used to use it.

And can 345ash-greninja quit spamming the same comment. I get it, you're disappointed that little kitty didn't knock down big kitty even when it grew to a bigger little kitty. Incineroar isn't Mega Charizard X in disguise/of Alola when we've only seen it battle Litten/Torracat. Did you forget that a Z Move is a 1 hit KO when performed successfully? Boo hoo, Kukui is more than just an average professor who studies moves. Everyone needs a side gig. Professor Oak is a also a famous poet, Professor Juniper has Indiana Jones as a father and is one of the most active researchers who will take action on an issue, and Professor Sycamore is marvelous enough to have a connection with Alan. There isn't much professors who can actually stay in battle.

 

[345ash-greninja]

And can 345ash-greninja quit spamming the same comment. I get it, you're disappointed that little kitty didn't knock down big kitty even when it grew to a bigger little kitty. Incineroar isn't Mega Charizard X in disguise/of Alola when we've only seen it battle Litten/Torracat. Did you forget that a Z Move is a 1 hit KO when performed successfully? Boo hoo, Kukui is more than just an average professor who studies moves. Everyone needs a side gig. Professor Oak is a also a famous poet, Professor Juniper has Indiana Jones as a father and is one of the most active researchers who will take action on an issue, and Professor Sycamore is marvelous enough to have a connection with Alan. There isn't much professors who can actually stay in battle.

After reading this I'm convinced that you didn't watch the part where Incineroar tanked the moves from Machamp, Primarina and Decidueye without getting the slightest of a scratch.

And I get it that you don't like my comparison with MCX but considering how it was depicted in this episode it isn't an unreasonable comparison, so kindly bear with it.

 

[AznKei]

It was a good episode imo but I think the writers should cut some slack to have all of Masked Royal opponents being jobbed except for Ash, even though I know they couldn't fit anything in a 20 mins episode. It's also look like a trend where the Pokemon evolves when the evolved form makes an appearance and fight against it. And for a Pokemon based of a heel wrestler, Incineroar sure looks nice.

 

[DatsRight]

I actually may be in the minority here, but I loved this episode and actually appreciate that Ash lost, because it gives Ash and Torrecat the motivation to get stronger. And also to be fair, if we look at past episodes of Ash's first stage Pokémon facing the third stage Pokémon, the pokémon and/or its trainer were jerks. When Tepig faced Emboar in Black and White, Shamus had been a complete jerk, having abandoning Tepig, that trainer needed to be knocked down a peg by Pignite. And in the XY series, during the episode Fletchling evolved, when Ash tried to challenge its trainer, Talonflame was a jerk in brushing it off thinking that it would be too weak to battle it, and only accepted a battle when Fletchling saved it, thus Talonflame needed to be knocked down a peg by a newly evolved Fletchender. In these two cases there was the so-called plot armor. In the case of Sun and Moon, neither Masked Royal/Professor Kukui nor Incineroar were jerks, so they didn't need to be knocked down a peg, thus getting rid of that so-called plot armor. This allowed Ash to get stronger, without actually winning, giving them a chance to get even stronger, and possibly even have Torrecat evolve even further.


Also loved the new evolution animation for Litten. I did not see that coming. And I was wrong about Masked Royal hiding his Z Ring under his wristband. And I'm glad Ash wasn't the only one who lost at the battle royal and they had Kiawe and Sophecles lose first. Though I don't understand Japanese, I think the Masked Royal made an exception to the rule that once a side is knocked out the battle ends immediately. Also, I loved Team Rocket's involvement in the episode, acting as the announcers, and I found it funny how they actually blurted out "Twerp!" after seeing Ash.

This. If anything Masked Royal and Incineroar seem to be taking a Sempai role right now in their rivalry (a very rough one but that's exactly the kind that appeal to Ash and Torracat).

I get kind of tired of the twerps relying on laser guided karma to keep justifying boosts and cheap wins, 'Oh but it was against Team Rocket or some other tool of the day, the twerps deserved it more'. Being the moral victor is cool, but I like times the heroes get better through skill, especially since the plot continuously boosting them until they can't lose undermines the whole 'underdog' status said formula tends to go for with them.

This I think did it well, since Litten is not only a rival to Incineroar, but training through it too. He improves throughout the later battle and then evolves, but is still a bit away from coming out on top. LOVED the music that played over the snazzy evolution and Torracat's second wind by the way.

Kukui's Masked Royal persona was wonderfully hammy, I love secret mentor plots.

Team Rocket catching a break for once and getting a job as announcers was fun (and a neat call back to their previous reporter jobs). I liked Meowth's respect for Litten coming into play again, and the trio almost blowing their cover by saying 'brat boy' through speaker. Also liked how they didn't even hide Wobbuffet as Meowth's height booster this time, he just stands there smiling with a bow tie on. Genius. XD

Other snippets, Ash's random 'butt wiggle' montage not doing the job (the tactic doesn't work for everyone XD). Ash needs more variation in training strategies it seems.

Other plus sides; Torracat seems to be another evolution that's keeping it's old expressive personality. The ending implies if anything things will be the same around Delia. XD Incineroar was also on perfect form as a hammy wrestler. This episode made me love Litten's evolutions.

Also we see a bit more of Akala to vindicate the previous kinda limited arc.

I liked seeing Marowak and Charjabug being action, even if it was just to get creamed by Incineroar. Also loved Sophocles being a Masked Royal fanatic.

 

[Satomine Night]

Yeah maybe I could see this leading to Kukui ultimately being revealed as the Masked Royal. But while Masked Royal/Incineroar could be used as tools by the writers to develop Torracat more and possibly evolve into Incineroar, there is no way they can beat that Incineroar no matter how much they improve, that thing is just broken. It's only a matter of how much of a better fight Ash and Torracat would be able to put up next time.

Incineroar is incredibly powerful, yes, but I wouldn't call it "broken" just based off what we saw in this episode. The Masked Royal is undefeated, so it's only to be expected that he would have an incredibly strong Pokémon partner who is able to defeat even Pokémon it's weak against, such as Primarina. This isn't the first time we've seen Pokémon defeat opponents against whom they had a type disadvantage, and not all of those Pokémon were overpowered.

So Incineroar tanked moves from Machamp, Decidueye, and Primarina without the slightest scratch. Did you miss the scene where Torracat managed to get a hit on Incineroar? The tiger is not "broken." Just because Torracat didn't defeat Incineroar in this episode doesn't mean it won't eventually get strong enough to defeat Incineroar. This episode set up a rivalry between the two of them, and it appears Incineroar has become Torracat's inspiration and goal.

 

[satopi]

After reading this I'm convinced that you didn't watch the part where Incineroar tanked the moves from Machamp, Primarina and Decidueye without getting the slightest of a scratch.

And I get it that you don't like my comparison with MCX but considering how it was depicted in this episode it isn't an unreasonable comparison, so kindly bear with it.

No I did see that scene. They're trash Pokémon who belong to trash trainers. Considering that Primarina is the only one with an effective type move, I'm not surprised Machamp nor Decidueye didn't scratch a single mark. Primarina on the other hand, unless Decidueye's move (that attacked first) prevented some damage, I'm going to assume that Incineroar is an expert at bulking, withstanding an attack move.

 

[togenaught18]

Incineroar is incredibly powerful, yes, but I wouldn't call it "broken" just based off what we saw in this episode. The Masked Royal is undefeated, so it's only to be expected that he would have an incredibly strong Pokémon partner who is able to defeat even Pokémon it's weak against, such as Primarina. This isn't the first time we've seen Pokémon defeat opponents against whom they had a type disadvantage, and not all of those Pokémon were overpowered.

So Incineroar tanked moves from Machamp, Decidueye, and Primarina without the slightest scratch. Did you miss the scene where Torracat managed to get a hit on Incineroar? The tiger is not "broken." Just because Torracat didn't defeat Incineroar in this episode doesn't mean it won't eventually get strong enough to defeat Incineroar. This episode set up a rivalry between the two of them, and it appears Incineroar has become Torracat's inspiration and goal.

Somewhat agree, but you remember axew vs garchomp?. Yeah, Axew giga impact overthrow Garchomp, the same who battled alone with 5 paul pokemon (Torterra? ). So Garchomp shouldnt be invincible
I agree is somewhat soon to said that, but considering Kukui in the games is the "champion", in the anime shouldnt be surprise is too op here.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Yeah maybe I could see this leading to Kukui ultimately being revealed as the Masked Royal. But while Masked Royal/Incineroar could be used as tools by the writers to develop Torracat more and possibly evolve into Incineroar, there is no way they can beat that Incineroar no matter how much they improve, that thing is just broken. It's only a matter of how much of a better fight Ash and Torracat would be able to put up next time.

I'm not saying Ash will beat him and I sure did not indicate that Torrecat will evolve... I'm just saying this isn't the last time we see Masked Royal or Incineroar. In terms of better fights, yeah, that much I agree on : )

 

[345ash-greninja]

Incineroar is incredibly powerful, yes, but I wouldn't call it "broken" just based off what we saw in this episode. The Masked Royal is undefeated, so it's only to be expected that he would have an incredibly strong Pokémon partner who is able to defeat even Pokémon it's weak against, such as Primarina. This isn't the first time we've seen Pokémon defeat opponents against whom they had a type disadvantage, and not all of those Pokémon were overpowered.

So Incineroar tanked moves from Machamp, Decidueye, and Primarina without the slightest scratch. Did you miss the scene where Torracat managed to get a hit on Incineroar? The tiger is not "broken." Just because Torracat didn't defeat Incineroar in this episode doesn't mean it won't eventually get strong enough to defeat Incineroar. This episode set up a rivalry between the two of them, and it appears Incineroar has become Torracat's inspiration and goal.

Torracat's hit on Incineroar didn't do anything substantial and Incineroar was pretty much unscathed at the end of the battle. The main reason I expect Torracat to never beat Incineroar because I'm convinced that Kukui is being portrayed as a Champion in the anime, even the SM Champion theme was playing when he was battling.

No I did see that scene. They're trash Pokémon who belong to trash trainers. Considering that Primarina is the only one with an effective type move, I'm not surprised Machamp nor Decidueye didn't scratch a single mark. Primarina on the other hand, unless Decidueye's move (that attacked first) prevented some damage, I'm going to assume that Incineroar is an expert at bulking, withstanding an attack move.

What makes them trash trainers? And FYI Machamp's moves were super effective as well. Kukui is a Champion in the games, and judging from his portrayal in this episode + the SM Champion theme was playing when he was battling makes it highly probable that he is being portrayed as a Champion.

 

[Satomine Night]

Torracat's hit on Incineroar didn't do anything substantial and Incineroar was pretty much unscathed at the end of the battle. The main reason I expect Torracat to never beat Incineroar because I'm convinced that Kukui is being portrayed as a Champion in the anime, even the SM Champion theme was playing when he was battling.

Torracat's hit might not have done anything substantial, but it was still a hit that left a mark, which means Incineroar was not totally unscathed. If Incineroar were truly "broken," then Torracat should not have been able to get that hit on it.

If Kukui is the Alola League Champion in the anime, then there's a good chance Ash won't defeat him. But that doesn't make any of Kukui's Pokémon "broken"; it just makes them incredibly strong, too strong for Ash's Pokémon. There's a difference.

 

[Dragalge]

Torracat's hit on Incineroar didn't do anything substantial and Incineroar was pretty much unscathed at the end of the battle. The main reason I expect Torracat to never beat Incineroar because I'm convinced that Kukui is being portrayed as a Champion in the anime, even the SM Champion theme was playing when he was battling.



What makes them trash trainers? And FYI Machamp's moves were super effective as well. Kukui is a Champion in the games, and judjing from his portrayal in this episode + the SM Champion theme was playing when he was battling makes it highly probable that he is being portrayed as a Champion.

Kukui was never the champion. He was just the last person you fought before the player became the first champion in Alola.

Anyways a good episode imo. Glad to see Torracat at last although I wish we had something other than Flame Charge. Pignite was fresh with it and I was alright with Talonflame having it but three times in a row is a bit stale lol.

 

[p96822]

Really I felt the training that Torracat did was kinda dumb. I mean for Lycanroc I kinda let side because that how he summons his rock throw, but Flame Charge should been handle differently like going on a treadmill. Kinda like how Pignite did when he learned Flame Charge. Plus this is kinda of a similar ending to how Treecko learned Bullet Seed, but I felt that worked so much better because how Ash though about it and why he wanted to teach Bullet Seed to Treecko

 

[DatsRight]

Really I felt the training that Torracat did was kinda dumb. I mean for Lycanroc I kinda let side because that how he summons his rock throw, but Flame Charge should been handle differently like going on a treadmill. Kinda like how Pignite did when he learned Flame Charge. Plus this is kinda of a similar ending to how Treecko learned Bullet Seed, but I felt that worked so much better because how Ash though about it and why he wanted to teach Bullet Seed to Treecko

I kinda thought that too, especially since there was more butt swishing than actual training in the montage.

But then afterwards, the whole point was that it didn't seem to work for this case, hence Masked Royal stepping in, so it was easier to swallow when it was meant to be dumb.


I find it hard to be peeved by the results of the battles either. While Litten has been training a LOT this series, he's only been in a few official battles. No other opponent could faze Incineroar remotely, let alone defeat it, Torracat was it's toughest onscreen opponent, even as Litten, but realistically I think it would have been a cop out if Incineroar lost to him.

Ash has had quite a winning streak this series anyway.

 

[p96822]

I kinda thought that too, especially since there was more butt swishing than actual training in the montage.

But then afterwards, the whole point was that it didn't seem to work for this case, hence Masked Royal stepping in.


I find it hard to be peeved by the results of the battles either. While Litten has been training a LOT this series, he's only been in a few official battles. No other opponent could faze Incineroar remotely, let alone defeat it, Torracat was it's toughest onscreen opponent, even as Litten, but realistically I think it would have been a cop out if Incineroar lost to him.

Ash has had quite a winning streak this series anyway.

Really in my opinion he didn't really used Litten that much in battles compare to Lycanroc and Rowlet. Also I think Litten should have learn a different move instead of another fire attack. With it move pool being so large they are limiting what it can do

 

[DatsRight]

Really in my opinion he didn't really used Litten that much in battles compare to Lycanroc and Rowlet. Also I think Litten should have learn a different move instead of another fire attack. With it move pool being so large they are limiting what it can do

Given the Kahuna battles, Ash is likely ensured Darkium or Groundium Z (unless the Tapus interfere again).

Unless Ash catches a Dark type, I can see Torracat either evolving or at least learning one of it's Dark type moves.

 

[p96822]

If it was me that wrote this episode Litten would have ether learn Shadow Claw or Leech Life

 

[DatsRight]

I guess they wanted something of a mirror battle between the two with them charging at each other.

Plus speedsters tend to be Ash's gimmick.

 

[SceptileTheBanana]

I have to say, Torracat vs. Incineroar is probably one of the best battles in Sun and Moon so far (although that's not saying much since there's only like 5 to choose from). I'm not thrilled we're getting Flame Charge for the third time in a row, but it does suit Torracat. Also I think it's kinda funny how this is the second time in a row Ash's fire Pokemon evolves and he then proceeds to spam Flame Charge for the rest of the battle.

 

[p96822]

This is the third episode that a Pokemon evolved and loses the battle. The Pokemon that lost were Sewaddle and Poliwag