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Burn with Passion, Litten! Down with Incineroar!! (1006)

Red Tiger 12

Wandering Trainer
I have to say that I do love the set up rivalry they're doing for Kukui's Incineroar with Ash's Torracat. And yeah, as somebody pointed out, it seems like they're trying to give each of Ash's Alola Pokemon a rival.

Dusk Lycanroc has Silvally and now Torracat has Incineroar.

I have to join the group that agrees that Ash's Torracat losing despite the evolution is a good thing. How many times have we seen a character's Pokemon evolve and defeat their final evolved forms? Honestly it feels refreshing to see this happen at least once a series in the anime. It doesn't necessarily hurt unless you take it personally for some reason. Also, the writers really love giving Ash's Fire-types Flame Charge... Torracat is like the third Fire-type Pokemon he has in a row that knows Flame Charge. But I will agree that it is like a more powerful variant of Flame Wheel or Flare Blitz.

I also didn't realize that it was the Champion's theme playing during the second battle. I thought it was just the usual Sun and Moon's Title Screen theme. With that, I do also think that they're trying to set up Kukui as being a Champion-tier Trainer. I mean, for Arceus' sake, his Incineroar just took down Machamp, Primarina and Decidueye like nobody's business. But the fact that it was a one-sided battle does slightly annoy me in that the last evolved forms of the other two starters were first shown as being comparatively weak. I hope we get a focus episode for both of them soon to show just how strong they can really be. If not, then bad move on the writers part.

Also, I gotta ask if Kukui's Incineroar really used Flamethrower during the second battle. If it did, then this is Battle Frontier all over again.
 

PkmnTrainerV

The Fire Master
In my opinion Torracat can still fully evolve. To those saying that Incineroar has already made an appearance and will appear later- we had Senpai's Greninja appearing for both of Ash's froakie's evolutions. The same could easily happen with Torracat. Fletchling also fully evolved after battling Talonflame. There was also Paul and his Torterra.

I don’t think this reduces the changes of Torracat fully evolving.
 

Evanibble

Well-Known Member
Hands down one of my favorite episodes in SM. Came in with high standards and they were met.

-The training montage was excellent
-Seeing the starters final evolutions was great
-Litten/Torracat sensing Kukui under the mask was well done
-Torracat looks really great in the anime. I'm definitely biased when I say its my favorite "second evolution" in Gen VII--i'm a cat guy personally XD (I also love owls, but Dartrix's design looks meh to me...hopefully it looks nicer in the anime)
-Holy hell Kukui is a strong freakin' trainer. LIKE DAMN. I know other people have called it already, but i'm sure Ash is gonna lose to him in the Alola League. THAT'S a solid way to get defeated, in my opinion. And he'll prolly have his in-game team, too.

I don't think the use of Incineroar's Z-move nor Decidueye's or Primarina's appearances lessen the chances of Ash getting them/using them. Malicious Moonsault(?) was used briefly at the beginning to OH-KO the starters and Machamp and that was it. I think because there's so much room for Torracat to develop now that he(?) has a rival means that maybe Masked Royal will show Ash how to use that particular Z-move if/when Torracat eventually evolves (which I think is actually pretty likely at this point).

Again, great episode. Really stoked to see more of Torracat in the future.
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
I don't remember it using Flamethrower.
Though the first thing I thought of with regards to the move limit is Drake's Dragonite using 10 moves in one episode (granted that was the OS and this is SM, but still).
Yeah, it never used Flamethrower. Its moveset is Darkest Lariat, Bulk Up, Throat Chop and Cross Chop. As far as I know, we haven't seen a Pokémon with more than four moves since the original series.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I know the music playing at the start of the rematch was the SM Champion theme but was the music after Torracat evolved from any of the games? It sounded like a battle theme.
 

Mega Altaria

☆~Shiny hunter▢~
I know the music playing at the start of the rematch was the SM Champion theme but was the music after Torracat evolved from any of the games? It sounded like a battle theme.

The music that plays in the background after Litten evolves certainly isn't from any Pokémon game as I know of.
 

Tabasco Boshi

★★★★★
Yeah, it never used Flamethrower. Its moveset is Darkest Lariat, Bulk Up, Throat Chop and Cross Chop. As far as I know, we haven't seen a Pokémon with more than four moves since the original series.
Alain's Charizard used 5 moves in XYZ013. It used Steel Wing against Team Rocket but in the battle with Ash, it only used 4 moves. Weird.
 

mehmeh1

I can do anything
Alain's Charizard used 5 moves in XYZ013. It used Steel Wing against Team Rocket but in the battle with Ash, it only used 4 moves. Weird.
yeah, and for more post-OS examples, ash's snorlax used like 6 moves against greta
 

mehmeh1

I can do anything
They really need to get tomioka more often, he is a great writer
 

Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Alain's Charizard used 5 moves in XYZ013. It used Steel Wing against Team Rocket but in the battle with Ash, it only used 4 moves. Weird.
He used Dragon Claw against the Rocket Gang in that episode, I just checked. Unless the dub had him say Steel Wing, in which case that's just the dub messing up. And in his battle with Satoshi, he also did not use Steel Wing. He used Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Thunder Punch and Blast Burn. While looking at Bulbapedia I see that he was apparently shown using Steel Wing at some point, chances are he simply replaced it with one of the other four moves in the meantime.

yeah, and for more post-OS examples, ash's snorlax used like 6 moves against greta
I had heard about this example, but I didn't know when it happened. So okay, we've seen a Pokémon have more than four moves at a time as recently as Advanced Generation. That's... still pretty ancient though.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Are we sure it didn't use Flamethrower?? While Kukui didn't announce it, he did use some sort of fire blast out of his belt.
 

andrewscott48209

Well-Known Member
He used Dragon Claw against the Rocket Gang in that episode, I just checked. Unless the dub had him say Steel Wing, in which case that's just the dub messing up. And in his battle with Satoshi, he also did not use Steel Wing. He used Flamethrower, Dragon Claw, Thunder Punch and Blast Burn. While looking at Bulbapedia I see that he was apparently shown using Steel Wing at some point, chances are he simply replaced it with one of the other four moves in the meantime.


I had heard about this example, but I didn't know when it happened. So okay, we've seen a Pokémon have more than four moves at a time as recently as Advanced Generation. That's... still pretty ancient though.

I think Alain used steel wing to cut through a dark pulse that was aimed at Ash.
 
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Epicocity

Well-Known Member
I think Alain used steel wing to cut through a dark pulse that was aimed at Ash.

Considering the attack wasn't explicitly called, one can either assume that 1) it was an oversight on the animators' part (which, as we know, happens) or 2) Alain replaced it with Thunder Punch in the few hours before their battle.
 

lemoncatpower

Cynical optimist
Wasn't it known that Alain taught Charizard thunder punch specifically to fight Ash-Greninja? Not sure how that got into my head if that's not the reasoning... but since Alain was so obsessed with beating Ash, I can't see it being any other way.

I do think even if Incineroar doesn't know "flamethrower", he could still shoot a bit of fire out of his belt just because he is a fire type pokemon and shouldn't need it to be a move. There are certain skills pokemon should have without needing the actual move.
 

diakyu

Well-Known Member
Wasn't it known that Alain taught Charizard thunder punch specifically to fight Ash-Greninja? Not sure how that got into my head if that's not the reasoning... but since Alain was so obsessed with beating Ash, I can't see it being any other way.
Alain's Charizard uses thunder punch for the first time in the episode Alain meets Ash though.

They really need to get tomioka more often, he is a great writer
He has done about 15 episodes I think for Sun and Moon and a lot of them were story focused. It looks like he is in charge of episodes focused on Litten because he's done each one.
 
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hottom3rd

Well-Known Member
This was a good episode. 8.75 / 10 would have been higher but the ash shaking montage was redundant and I skipped parts of it.

The professor sure is strong, certainly being laid out as champ. or equivalent skill level.
 

Sulfurian

Well-Known Member
So would this be considered a champion battle? Considering in sun and moon (spoilers lel) he was the final fight before claiming the title (also screw hau pls keep him out)

Kinda like ash fighting cynthia or one of the elite four members in previous seasons.
 

Mega Altaria

☆~Shiny hunter▢~
So would this be considered a champion battle? Considering in sun and moon (spoilers lel) he was the final fight before claiming the title (also screw hau pls keep him out)

Kinda like ash fighting cynthia or one of the elite four members in previous seasons.

I'd think it'll be too early to consider this as a Champion battle because so far it's not revealed in the anime if Kukui is Champion. But he is definitely a strong Trainer.
 

KurashiDragon

Well-known Dragonite Enthusiast
Ash continuing the tradition of Spamming Flame Charge as soon as his pokemon learns it I see. Some things never change...... except this time it didn't work and he still got bodied. Oh well. Overall I liked this episode.

I think Kukui is considered champion level in the anime. S/M essentially established that Kukui was worthy of being the champion to some degree and Hau still hasn't and likely wont be introduced so there can be not other. There isn't a champion league in the anime's Alola so Kukui isn't officially a champion but I still feel he's on the level of one.
 
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