Can Misty be considered champion level after defeating Ash?

[AJ97]

But can she defeat yamcha?

 

[AJ97]

If that mean means remotely anything she is Hoenn League/BF level for defeating Corphish

But it wouldn't be absurd for Misty to be that good, she was a gym leader(one of) already when Ash was just starting. He outgrew her but she continued to train and battle strong trainers, getting even her mega

It's not.

This further reinforces that the Battle Frontier = Elite Four statement from Scott simply doesn't hold. This was clearly retconned based on Ash's performance against Elite four members and Champions across Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos.

It's not a stretch for current Misty to be able to defeat Frontier Brains. Even Reggie has beaten 7 of the Frontier Brains with the exception of Brandon (Who was shown to be much superior compared to the other Frontier Brains).

 

[masdog]

Honestly? I don’t think we can really judge any relative strength from that battle because 1) Ash handicapped himself and 2)I don’t think either were really going all out.

This is fake

 

[AJ97]

He'd have a slightly better chance of beating Misty if he used Buizel or Kingler instead. Squirtle would be an automatic W.

Oshawott couldn't defeat gym leader Cheren's Herdier.

Totodile is only known for dancing.

Palpitoad is meh.

In what Universe is Kingler or Buizel better than Corphish?

Kingler's best feats are wins in the OG Kanto League and Buizel's best feat I can think off; is beating one of Fantina's Pokemon?

Corphish has an 8th Gym Leader win + Regional League Wins + 2 Battle Frontier wins under its belt.

 

[AJ97]

Yeah in OS Kanto League Kingler was going through the opponent's pokemon quite easily. It was also Ash's first option over Squirtle for the Johto League up until it was put out of commission.

Are you really going to argue Ash's Kanto League opponents Kingler fought are stronger than Juan/ Battle Frontier Members ?
Also, Ash didn't pick Kingler over Squirtle. He didn't know Squirtle was a choice at the time. It just coincidentally showed up when Kingdom was injured before the battle against Macy.

Buizel also did well against Maylene and then Paul's Gastrodon.

Maylene pales in comparison to everyone Corphish fought. Additionally, Paul planned to sacrifice Aggron and Gastrodon right from the start. So defeating Gastrodon, especially after it battled one more pokemon before, isn't really an impressive feat.


You might not like Corphish but it is Ash's 4th strongest Water Pokemon.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Shouldn't this thread have spoilers in the title considering this hasn't aired outside of japan yet?

It's kind of interesting how the only times Misty can beat Ash is when things are handicapped in her favor, by only using her element she wins, but when it's anything goes, he takes it.

I do not consider her stronger than Ash because of that though (I don't honestly know where to rank her), the fight wasn't that intense and considering the stakes, Ash winning would've caused more problems cause what would he do with a random last minute capture when he's about to leave the MC post?

If anyone was to look bad cause of this fight, it would be Iris considering Ash was able to beat her at her own element, and also without it.

 

[AJ97]

Okay so since you don't think what Kingler did at the Kanto League was impressive it should automatically be disqualified from being one of Ash's strongest water types?

Kanto Ash is the weakest iteration of Ash. Trainers he beat in Kanto would be substantially weaker compared to trainers Ash defeated during Sinnoh and the battle frontier.

Corphish took an L from a Nurse Joy's Chansey and this was after the battle with Anabel. So it's not really a big gap if any at all,I have Corphish and Buizel both in the same tier.

This whole point is based on an assumption that Nurse Joy is supposed to be weak in battle. Why is that the case?
There's nothing in the series that suggest this. In fact, we've even seen Nurse Joy Insepctor with the Latias before, who beats both Brock and Forest.

Furthermore, despite Brock giving up his responsibilities to become an aspire Pokemon Doctor, he was still shown to have grown significantly more powerful.

 

[Leonhart]

No. Satoshi [Ash] wasn't using a particularly powerful Pokemon when he lost, so I wouldn't grant Kasumi [Misty] that much praise or consider her to be "Champion level" just for beating an average Pokemon such as Heigani [Corphish].

 

[Satoshi & Touko]

Maybe. If nothing else, she is strong enough where if the plot in an episode called for Misty to win against, say Cynthia or Steven, then the writers would make her win.

 

[AJ97]

Kingler 3-0 vs Mandi

Got another W vs Pete

Already defeated Misty's Politoed/Poliwhirl at the Whirl Cup

I think it's absurd to compare Kanto/Orange Island Ash's feats with Hoenn Ash and Sinnoh Ash.
To top it off, are you really going to compare Orange Island Misty with current Misty?

Kingler just has the short end of the stick as it's an old Pokemon which simply didn't get the same level of focus as some of Ash's other key members.

I honestly can't see Kingler being overshadowed by Swellow,Glalie and Grovyle if it filled Corphish's spot.

This is pretty biased as Kingler was clearly overshadowed by Bulbasaur, Squirtle & Charizard. Despite Kingler being fully evolved, there was a pre-evolved water Pokemon on Ash's team that was considered greater.

Where do you have Buizel and Kingler ranked?

My rankings would be:

1) Greninja
2) Dracovish
3) Squirtle
4) Corphish
5) Buizel
6) Kingler
7) Totodile
8) Oshawott
9) Palpitoad

I can't think of Oshawott and Palpitoad winning a single noteworthy battle. Totodile at least has a win against Harrison. To top it off, Palpitoad has constantly lost/tied against Electric-type which is absurd.

 

[AJ97]

Palpitoad tied with Stephan's Zebstrika at the Unova League,that's enough for me to put it over Oshawott and Totodile.

Tieing against an Electric type is absurd. Especially when Ash is the guy who wins battles with type disadvantages. To top it off, this was its second failed attempt against an Electric type Pokemon. Totodile beating Harrison's Sneasel that took out Pikachu (Granted Pikachu did battle Kecleon before).

Kingler had a case for being the MVP at the Kanto League. But why would Glalie,Swellow and Grovyle overshadow Kingler?

MVP In the Kanto League for one fight is a stretch.
I said if you're going to argue Glalie, Swellow and Grovyle Overshadowed Corphish, you could just as much argue Charizard, Squirtle and Bulbasaur outclassed Kingler.

Technically, even Tauros far outclass Kingler as a new Pokemon.


It's still absurd you're rating Kingler's kanto feats against a random nobody relative to Corphish's 2 battle frontier feats. It's evident you're simply not being rational at this point and speaking simply out of distaste for Corphish.

 

[AJ97]

3-0'ed Mandi's pokemon

Mandi is a random nobody who lost to the weakest iteration of Ash.

Based off what?Popularity?

If you're claiming Grovyle, Glailie and Swellow were superior to Corphish in feats ; there's just as much of an argument that Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Charizard far outclass Kingler in feats.

Not really

So because Corphish did this in AG (one of them was a damn 2 on 2) that should automatically mean it's better than someone from an earlier series that had also had a good showing but count it as bad,that doesn't seem fair. What bad losses did Kingler suffer that would place it below Corphish?

It's irrelevant.

Kingler has the disadvantage of being a Kanto Pokemon that was unfortunately used by the weakest iteration of Ash against a nobody. Corphish was being used by veteran tier Ash against Opponents far more impressive and significantly stronger.

I don't know why you keep emphasizing on 2v2 when the opponent is also using 2 Pokemon in the same fight. You're acting as though Corphish and Swellow together fought against 1 Pokemon. If anything, 2v2 battles are much harder as you're dealing with 2 opponents while also being forced to collaborate with another pokemon.

Your whole argument rests on the fact that Mandi is > Anabel and Tucker (2 Frontier Brains) which is SIMPLY ABSURD...

 

[masdog]

Mandi is a random nobody who lost to the weakest iteration of Ash.

If you're claiming Grovyle, Glailie and Swellow were superior to Corphish in feats ; there's just as much of an argument that Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Charizard far outclass Kingler in feats.

It's irrelevant.

Kingler has the disadvantage of being a Kanto Pokemon that was unfortunately used by the weakest iteration of Ash against a nobody. Corphish was being used by veteran tier Ash against Opponents far more impressive and significantly stronger.

I don't know why you keep emphasizing on 2v2 when the opponent is also using 2 Pokemon in the same fight. You're acting as though Corphish and Swellow together fought against 1 Pokemon. If anything, 2v2 battles are much harder as you're dealing with 2 opponents while also being forced to collaborate with another pokemon.

Your whole argument rests on the fact that Mandi is > Anabel and Tucker (2 Frontier Brains) which is SIMPLY ABSURD...

What feats?

Ash was still around that same ballpark during OI and had a powerful Snorlax.

It's too bad Corphish lost to that Chansey.

What does any of this have to do with whether Misty could be considered Champion Level after beating Ash in the Pokemon equivalent of a friendly match?

 

[Pokeshipper_]

Yes, she's a Water Pokémon Master.

 

[Bendicion]

YES, shes an aspiring Water Pokemon Master afterall.

 

[ShadowForce720]

YES, shes an aspiring Water Pokemon Master afterall.

That doesn’t mean that she could be consider Champion tier after beating Ash considering that the Pokémon she beat was his Corphish which while Corphish isn’t weak it’s not one of his strongest Pokémon.

Let’s be honest here regardless of how some people feel about it if Misty’s Politoed faced Ash’s Pikachu, JN team, or his other high tier Pokémon Misty’s Politoed would easily lose.

 

[Sham]

Do any of y’all have jobs

 

[Mythical-Moonlight]

Considering Corphish is nowhere near the level of Greninja, or any of Ash's Masters 8 Pokémon I'm gonna say No...