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Can Salamence rise to Ubers again?

Anon2

Well-Known Member
Hey, everyone, I was just wondering... well, Salamence got banished into the Uber teir last generation, but is now back in OU even though it still has the same moves, etc. that made it Uber last gen.

I was thinking, say in Pokemon Gray (or whatever they're gonna call the "Third Version" of Black and White), they brought the move tutor back (which I hope to God they do), and Salamence was able to use Outrage with Moxie? Wouldn't it be stupidly threatening, especially if you gave it a Choice Scarf, effectively giving it base 150 speed to top it off (though Excadrill could probably easily beat it)?

So yeah, I'm just wondering if anyone sees any possibilities for Salamence to rise to Ubers once again. Personally, I wouldn't be suprised, though it'd be a shame that I'd have to kick my Salamence off my OU team... :/
 

Inchtall

Back in Black....2
This thread should be in the 5th Gen Competitive discussion.

BTW: No, because of how hard some moves Salamence can learn are to find.
 

Lulamoon

Cheese for everyone!
Outrage is a DW exclusive move for Bagon, so Outrage and Moxie are legal together.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was moved to Ubers. In fact, it would surprise me if it didn't. Simply because it was last gen.

I have never used Salamence, though I do plan to, nor have I battled one. What affects banning it would have on the metagame are completely unknown to me.
From what I do know of Salamence, however, it will work well in Ubers and isn't overpowered in OU (just like Excadrill). With Moxie, it has less bulk, so anything with Ice Shard shouldn't have too much of a problem with it.
 
Too many Steel types, too much rain, too much Dragonite, too many Scarf Landorus stopping it from getting more than one kill.

Its still a great Pokemon but its not going to be Uber any time soon. Not when you look at Pokemon like Latios, Terrakion and Volcarona who make Salamence look tame in comparison.
 

kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
There's a difference between "good," "broken," and "it wouldn't have destroyed your team if you didn't let it set up forever."
 

~Sam~

Trader and Battler
imagin one Dragon dancing then raping your team with outrage however when you think about it you can counter it with a bulky poke with ice beam
 
Lol no it won't
Politoed kills his only way to kill steels (fire blast) and Brick Break sucks
Even at +1 Outrage doesn't OHKO most things and it gets easily killed by Ice Shard or HP ice
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
You're right about it having the same moves and stats as it did last gen, but you're missing out on the key point that this is a whole different metagame then last gen.

Moxie/DragonDance/Outrage is threatening, but not broken.

Skamory and Ferrothorn in rain, Scarf Terrakion and Landerous, Gliscor with Ice Fang, Sleep Talk Gyarados, ect.

Oh, and I don't think any pokemon will be threatening just because of a choice scarf set, or a choice set at all. They rely too much on prediction, even if they have Dragon STAB, most teams have steel types.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was moved to Ubers. In fact, it would surprise me if it didn't. Simply because it was last gen.
I'd be surprised, and lose some of my faith in Smogon.
The moment people start using Salamence again it will become Uber.
:/
But if it was so powerful it deserved Uber status, wouldn't it be all over the place?
 

Anon2

Well-Known Member
but you're missing out on the key point that this is a whole different metagame then last gen.

Hmm, that's true. The one point I forgot to think about. Thanks for pointing that out!
 

complete legitimacy

pack that fudge
It will be probably OU for all of 5th gen, but it will become high OU when people realize just now good the mixed set is, and how much Moxie sucks.
 

Eranu™

Well-Known Member
I don't think he'll be more used.
It's gotten really easy to beat since everyone brings a Dragonite counter these days which most of the time deals with salamence as well.
 
Just a nitpick, Salamence actually has an effective Base 175 speed with a Scarf, not 150.

But yeah, I don't think Salamence will be a suspect any time soon. The metagame has just changed so much around it. Back in the day, Base 100 speed was where it was at. Now it's more like 108. Perma-Rain also hinders it main way of getting past some Steel types: Fire Blast. I've said this before, but Moxie (even alongside Outrage + DD) doesn't make it broken, or all that much better to be honest. Sure, it's great against bulkier teams where a MixMence may need that extra bit of power to break throught the bulkier Pokemon, but I figure that if a Moxie DD Mence were to sweep a team, it would have probably swept whether it had Moxie or not. In that case, at least the Intimidate variants have an easier time setting up against physical attackers.
 

-Nator-

Well-Known Member
Salamence is the least of our worries now that we have Multiscale D-nites and Spec'd/Scarfed Hydreigons AND Haxorus'. Latios, too.
 
Sure if terrakion, landerous, dragonite, latias and latios all get banned, but I doubt that will happen.
 

Madden610

Active Member
Outrage is a DW exclusive move for Bagon, so Outrage and Moxie are legal together.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was moved to Ubers. In fact, it would surprise me if it didn't. Simply because it was last gen.

I have never used Salamence, though I do plan to, nor have I battled one. What affects banning it would have on the metagame are completely unknown to me.
From what I do know of Salamence, however, it will work well in Ubers and isn't overpowered in OU (just like Excadrill). With Moxie, it has less bulk, so anything with Ice Shard shouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

Um...wasn't it a move tutor move in SS,HG, And (not sure) Platinum? Bagon dream world only gets moxie....

Also Salamence in Ubers LOL. It can't hit as hard as Garchomp and is far weaker than Latios, which itself is sitting pretty in OU.
 

irock245

She wants it
Just because something was banned last gen doesn't mean it will be banned this gen. Dragonite is now technically better then salamence, thanks to multiscale. Dragonite needs to banned first before we ever nominate salamence this gen. I probably sound like an idiot considering shaymin-s, deoxys-s, and garchomp all got banned both gens, but w/e.
 

Anon2

Well-Known Member
Just a nitpick, Salamence actually has an effective Base 175 speed with a Scarf, not 150.

Actually, that's very interesting. Tell me, how does Salamence have base 175 with a choice scarf? How does the math work out in the end?

My logic was that 100 X 1.5 = 150... on the other hand, if Salamence has a speed-bossting nature making it's base speed 110 with the 1.1 increase, then 110 X 1.5 = 165, right?

So if there's aything I missed in the calculations, feel free to let me know. :p

Perma-Rain also hinders it main way of getting past some Steel types: Fire Blast.

True, although there's also the odd SpecsMence set that carries Hydro Pump, which can target the steels' (normally) weaker Special Defence, and also gets the 1.5 boost in rain. That's assuming that those steels aren't specially defensive though, plus Ferrothorn and even bulky waters can sponge that with ease.

Salamence also has Earthquake which will hit Metagross hard, but that's about all I can think of off the top of my head...

Though I'm not quoting everything else you said, I agree with it, for the most part.
 

kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
Um...wasn't it a move tutor move in SS,HG, And (not sure) Platinum? Bagon dream world only gets moxie....

Also Salamence in Ubers LOL. It can't hit as hard as Garchomp and is far weaker than Latios, which itself is sitting pretty in OU.
You can find pokemon in the DW with moves they normally don't know, like Mismagius and Inferno. They're essentially event moves.
 
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